Me and my friends have been playing a Rogue Trader campaign for a little while now and I find it difficult to maneuver properly when playing a senechal. Let me break the basics of our group down for you.

Rogue Trader: Eldest survivor of the now exterminated house Maleiaro. He has no dynasty or base of his own, but he has one sick-ass light-cruiser to compensate. Of his two younger brothers, - a Missionary and an Arch-Militant, only the latter is still alive. He has Enemy (ecclesiarchy) and is a young, impetuous type with alot of regard for his own safety and not alot else.

Explorator: The player doesn't have too well-defined a personality down yet, so I can't really say alot about him except that he is obviously there to protect the ship first, and the interest of the captain, later.

Arch-Militant: The younger Maleiaro. Very loyal to his older sibling, very thoughtful and pondering. He's generally a likeable character, but sometimes have trouble with taking initiative.

Navigator: Houghy and distant, but with a taste for the political ramblings in the officers quarters. Still present-of-mind enough to watch his tongue around the captain, but otherwise very much the in-control kinda guy.

And Finally me, the Seneschal: Marius Malloc is a hiver who've seen the worst the impirium has to offer (calamity) He is very professional about his duties, has a passion for time-pieces and archeotech and a general dislike for people who don't appreciate their place in the system. He's also a fanatic (unshakeable faith, Nerves of Steel). Also he has Air of Authority.

Now here's my problem. Our Rogue Trader continually takes offense to most things my character says or does. Generally he subvocalizes to the RT at appropriate times, giving his personal views on the situation, as well as the logistics and likeliness of different outcomes. He tends to question many of the captains dicisions, but always subvocalizes, so as not to undermine the RT in front of his crew or officers. They've had multiple face-to-face discussions in-game where they seem to agree on most things, but as soon as the moment passes he becomes hostile again.

We've agreed as a group to try and focus on the adventuring part and developement between characters and avoiding the cloak-and-dagger stuff that this kinda behavior would normally lead to.

So I need your advice on how to treat this issue, because I seem to be stuck in a situation where most things I say or do quickly earns me a threat of violence or imprisonment in the brig, without my character having actually done anything to warrant such. To me it appears as though our RT operates on this logic:

Kill Navigator = Ship cannot travel in warp, I make an enemy of the Navis Nobilé. Cannot easily replace.

Kill Arch-Militant = Military units may revolt or disagree with the one appointed to take his place. Cannot easily replace.

Kill Explorator: Ship **** up and becomes useless. A definate no-no. Makes enemy of AdMECH. Cannot easily replace.

Kill Seneschal: Bah. Pencilpusher I have aplenty. He is just one man. Can easily replace.

Now I've tried to explain that naturally if one of the characters die another one will (by stroke of luck) naturally be rolled to replace the dead character. But IN-CHARACTER these individuals that make up a rogue trader vessels officers are extremely rare and handy because of their great skill in what they're doing. This falls on completely deaf ears and even the GM seems to take the RTs side in the matter. I cannot/will not go against the ruling of the GM and as such my character needs ways to try and ensure his continued survival.

If you have any ideas, please throw them out here.

Nearyn said:

Both viewpoints are true to an extent...

Skilled Explorators, Navigators and Astropaths are invaluable... but they're not irreplacable. A PC Explorator will be one of many Tech-Priests aboard a given vessel, and he may not even be the most important one (the most highly-ranked Tech-Priest on-board may well never be seen outside the Enginarium; he delegates all "mingle with the flesh-bound heathens" duties to someone else), for example. Astropaths are not exactly uncommon on any given world in the Imperium. Navigators are perhaps the rarest, really, but even they're not that difficult to replace. This is the Imperium of Man - men who're one in a million number in the trillions or more.

A Seneschal's job is different - he doesn't fulfil an essential role in his own right... but rather, his job is to make himself indispensible. A Seneschal should know everything worth knowing, from the state of his master's finances, to the best brokers to contact when the ship reaches port, to the ring-leaders of the below-decks black market, the names of potential mutineers, and every worthwhile rumour and legend that passes through the docklands, the officers' clubs and everywhere else. If the Rogue Trader wants to make money, the Seneschal knows where the lucrative ventures are, whether or not the Rogue Trader can afford to pursue them, and who'll be willing to buy the goods, etc when the Explorers return.

If the Rogue Trader is the mind of an operation, then the Seneschal is the senses - a Rogue Trader cannot operate without knowing what is going on, and the Seneschal is there to ensure that is the case... and if that fails, the Seneschal should know enough to ensure that it's too dangerous to get rid of him. He's far, far more than a mere accountant...

What do the explorator and navigator players think of things ?

A seneschal is a spymaster. This means that you have agents throughout the ship feeding you information about everything. Use them to collect dirt on the other characters, let the Navigator know about your ability here then offer to help him with his political games.

Your interest in acrheotech could lead to you working with the explorator, especially since your agents could acquire information that he can't get otherwise.

Talk to the players with each character. Arrange things so that you are useful enough to at least one of them that the captain can't execute your character without pissing them off, unless he has a good reason.

Why does the Rogue Trader want to kill off all the other player characters?

If a Rogue Trader has a Seneschal, it's pretty likely that they have holdings too complex or too bothersome to deal with themselves. The Seneschal probably knows about the dynasty's holdings than any one other person. Just chucking him out an airlock means that all sorts of financial matters could come crashing down simply from no-one else knowing what has to be sorted out this year. And even suitably talented replacements are hard to find (in universe). If the rogue trader has any sense, they should appreciate intelligent viewpoints that might actually work to their benefit.

That said, I have to say I like the sound of digging up dirt on the other characters! But working it out with the player and GM out of game might work best.

I have to agree with NO-1 - the seneschal is absolutely indispensable. From the way you are writing you feel very much that you can be replaced. My suggestion is to concentrate on what your character is doing and be indispensable and irreplaceable.

I play the RT in our game, and quite seriously if my seneshal was killed, the majority of our profit and potential profit would die with him.

Its not just that he manages all the basic stuff, like what we have in the cargo hold, what was on the cargo ship stolen by the chaos space marines, what regiments we deployed on what planets, what they are equipped with, what planets we stored the military surplus gear on, who we left manning the space station around Ntharis Prime and when they will need to be re-supplied, what the manufactorum is making today... he also has a plan .

Our profit is not just about selling what's in the cargo hold... its about setting up our own Ports and Trade routes that we earn taxes from, and developing our own version of the Goldenhand (see Hive Tarsus in Calixis in DH). Real profit is about earning percentages from everything we do. For example, we just brought the Ntharan system back to the Imperium. During this process the Seneschal ensured that our ship dynasty owns 50% of all goods and services produced by the system, will earn percentages from trade tariffs, and earn rent from an Imperial Naval Port that is under construction. (There was a complicated discussion about government bonds and taxes that I pretended to totally follow). But my point is - what is currently in the hold is simply the small change - the real profit is to be realised several years of game time in the future and will be ongoing. Apart from thinking big on the profit, the Seneschal also knows what's going on in the ship, in the military ranks, and assists with crew morale (he has a thing for archoflagellants which comes in useful occasionally). Oh and yes he has saved the Captain's and the Navigator's bacon more than a few times cause he is very handy with a Lasgun and a macrocannon battery. Our Seneschal is indispensable and irreplaceable.

Apart from focusing on profit, there are many ways you can make yourself indispensable with everyone on the crew. In addition to Bilateralrope's suggestions...

Navigator - Navigators always need maps and primers. The seneschal is actually best placed to find out where a good one might be. (Hunting down a Primer can be an Endeavour all of its own)

Archmilitant - Does he command any troops or guard and how well are they equipped? What can you secure for them in terms of arms and equipment that is an improvement on what they have currently? If you don't have troops or if the Captain needs a "personal guard" can you recruit and equip some for him to train? There has to be a power sword or armour that he wants that only you can secure for him...

Explorator - I would think the interest in Archeotech would be enough - get together and make plans to acquire it, use it / sell it.

RT Captain - Get better contacts than he does for finding profitable Endeavours, or if he has good contacts, cultivate their offsider to find out more information that will support him. Then find out everything you can about his enemy and work out how you can take him (the enemy) down politically and economically and bring the plan to the Captain.

Lastly, if the Captain is reacting to your sub vocalised suggestions with a death threat or imprisonment in the brig, is this because the characters have a philosophical issue over the Seneschal's fanatacism, or is the Seneschal coming across as just plain "insubordinate"? Where does the disagreement lie? Is it what the Seneschal is saying or how it is being said? Perhaps try not communicating on sub vocal and only provide your advice "publicly" for a few game sessions (if the characters have to speak privately then do it face to face) and see if that makes a difference to the number of death threats. If this doesn't work, then you may have to sit down with the GM and the player and have a table talk about what you can do to sort it out.

As the player of the RT that you do not have fun with this and that you would like to know what is wrong. If you do not come to a conclusion, declare that your seneschall will leave at the next port & you gonna play another figure that is already on board & is likely to have a saying in anysthing. A second arch-militant would be possible. What ever the speciality of the active one is, take another. Moste likely decisions are the chief gunnery commander and the air marshal/wing leader

Thank you all so very much. Your suggestions are great and I will try my best to become as indispensible as I can.

To answer some of the questions posted:

I don't believe he WANTS to kill everyone, but he definately ponders his possibilities for doing so from time to time. I believe this stems from the idea that he is somewhat akin to a commissar in a regiment and that since it is his ship, he can do whatever he pleases to anyone.

I also believe that the question of what exactly i subvocalize can be answered by this very same statement. Example:

We've responded to an impirial guard distress signal from a planet whose sun is only a couple of hundred years from going supernova. Our captain didn't want to respond to their signal. The conversation went somewhat like this:

Scanner operator: "We've discovered an uncharted rock milord"

RT: "I don't want it"

*Report comes in from communications*

Deckhand: "Milord there's an impirial guard distress signal coming from the planets surface"

RT: "Do not respond" This he says out loud, amidst all his officers.

Explorator: "That sun is way too red. It doesn't have many centuries left in it..."

Senechal: "Milord, This place has been uncharted for millenia. It could potentially hold technological marvels, lost scriptures or other profitable venues."

RT: "I don't care for that pile of rocks seneschal"

*Explorator is listening very intently now, I switch to subvocal*

Seneschal: "Then it is my humble oppinion milord that we should at least be faithful to the word of The Immortal One, and our duties to our fellow man. I suggest we respond to their signal. If not for profit, then for the sake of your own men's morale"

Explorator: "This place could hold miracles of technology captain. I wish to be sent in"

Now at this point our captain decides that he will indeed scout the impGuard facility. Actually he is going himself. I come along since there's a chance to indulge my hobby. In our group is also our Arch-Militant and Explorator as well as 25 armed men for protection. Among these were the ship's personal NPC-everyman-hero; Sergeant Joseph Luck (Who managed to shoot clean through a Slaanesh-marine's head with a standard shotgun during a boarding action a few months earlier)

We landed at the Guard facility and our lander was brought underground (violent topside sandstorms prevent surface life) The facility is deserted and filled with homebrew aliens of the Spider/tyranid/roach/Xenomorph school-of-thought. After learning that we were trapped and something was messing with our teleportarium, we realized we had to find another way to get out of the facility. We found a collapsed exit tunnel and our captain insist that we clear it out. A simple logics test reveals to me that this will take months to clear without equipment and I subvocalize this to the captain. I remain civil and in control (nerves of steel) and advice that we head to Maintenance, to see if they've got equipment that could be helpful. Indeed we find two melta-cutters and can now clear out the rubble in a matter of 10-12 hours. At this point my captain gets hostile.

Our explorator fires up a terminal and looses all hopes of compure as he reads the following letters off of the inventory:

S.T.C

He insist that we find it immediately. I suggest we head to the armory. When asked why I argue that if I was swarmed by large, violent aliens and was clearly outnumbered, I'd fortify the armory and bring whatever was most valuable on the base with me. Our captain is about to argue, but our Arch-militant cuts in and agrees. On our way we find a hidden door, but decide that we can check it on our way back to the collapsed tunnel.

In the armory we find flamers, an autocannon, two plasmaguns and the STC among a bunch of guardsmen corpses that seems to have starved to death. With the prize now in our possesion we can make our way back. Now the captain is no longer interested in checking out the secret door. Once again I subvocalize. This time I tell him that it seems unwise not to cover our flanks in this dark facility and he snaps completely.

RT: "I don't care for your arguments seneschal. My first priority is to myself and my own safety..."

Now at this point it's clear to me that our guards will soon break apart if I do not take the RT out of the equation fast.

RT: ".. and it's your fault I'm even here so you can just stay when we leave!"

Senechal: *to the arch-militant* "I think the tactica impirialis is very clear on how to handle these situations, no?"

Arch-militant: "He's right brother, we need to cover our flanks. It would also do the men's morale some good to take the fight to the enemy rather than fleeing from shadows"

RT: *to me* "What exactly do you think you're doing?"

Seneschal: "Ensuring the safety of you and your men sire, while earning you a prize that dynasties have been founded and lost over, for the past many millenia. Also we have nothing to fear. Emperor protects"

The results were as follows:

A: The troops focused on the orders of the Arch-militant, and quickly forgot about the RTs cowardize.

B: Spurred on by the thought of wealth and fame they increased their morale even further.

C: Earned me several death threats and the assurance that I was going to the Brig.

And what do you think we found behind the locked door? Nothing short of a marvel of technology. A technological reseach-lab from the Dark Age of Technology dedicated to the study of Xeno-Biology. All of it Sanctioned.

Humonguous prize. He can rebuild his dynasty, brick for brick now and not spend half the cash he will get from this.

-

That was long winded... Okay but I believe that it is that commissar with his troops-idea that kicks in again. The thought that everyone is disposable except him and that this prize 'must not' result in praise to the one responsible *points to myself*, but must instead result in stern punishment because I had the audacity to remind him of his duties to the emperor and his fellow man, all while making him obscenely rich.

The RT player is a bloody fool, it seems from what you've written, that both the Arch-Millitant and the Explorator seems to realize the RT is only out for himself, and they are playing his brothers, They have a say in what goes on as well, so its about time they spoke up, or even arrange a "COMPLETE AND TOTAL MUTINY" against just the RT, and have Yourself & the AM & the EXP all take Captaincy of the Vessel in a "TRIUMVIRATE" of sorts, and then Either have the diposed RT Mind Blanked or Lobotimized and put through a Crew Reclamation Facility, making him an almost mindless Survitor.

And then when he runs away from the game in a huff, all of you playing should tell him stop being such an idiot, you can't run a Ship like that, let alone an entire Rogue Trader Dynasty.

Ehr yes,

Normally I'm against character kills and as a GM I would try and reason with the RT player...

If I where the Seneschal, I would:

A) Poison his drink
B) Don my Synskin and Chameleoline cloak and use my Inferno Pistol on his head when sleeps
C) Since the Arch Militant is the younger brother the RT, the RT is completely expandeble...
D) Congratulate the new holder of the warrant...

I have to agree with the two posters above. It sounds to me like you have the wrong person playing the Rogue Trader. Might I hazard a guess that this player specifily requested being the Rogue Trader? He sounds like someone who was hoping to gain control by taking that carear, but now finds that it doesn't change anything in the real world. You and the other two are clearly trying to follow the plot of the story, performing essentialy as one would expect a Rogue Trader game to go.

Like the others said I'd have a chat with your GM, but first I'd consider talking with the Millitient and the Exploritor - see if they have simmilar fealings about the Rogue Trader and/or player. Santiago is right though, with the Brother/Arch-Millitent aboard, the Rogue Trader is expendable.

Hail to the Imperium, the God Emperor, its nobles and their Roman style of politics...

You don't have to see it as murder or mutiny, but as an improvement of the effectiveness of the Dynasty...

Ah if only it were so. I have to say that I've been tempted on multiple occasions to execute him for gross incompetence and borderline heretical behavior (and for the nasty little witch-mark I know for a fact that he's got ; ) ). But alas I really want this game to work out and I don't believe the other characters have the same problem, as it seems to be only me who is target of his hostility. Then again it could be me doing something wrong and not realizing it. I have to remain open to that possibility. However I will say that I will keep the whole assasination idea as a last resort. Also I'm liking the triumvirate idea, but I'll have to gauge their characters more before I can consider that.

Also the player did not ask to be rogue trader, nor is he the type you'd associate with power-hungry playstyle. I believe it is his character and not him that has the problem, and that's why I'm appreciating all the advice you can give me for in-game situations and how to make myself as valuable an asset as possible. I have to say I might have been slacking off on the whole spymaster thing. The word SPY reeks of the very cloak and dagger type of play we try to avoid, but now I realize that it doesn't have to be so. I should try to explore the endless opportunities I have access to as a Seneschal.

BTW thanks so much for the reference to Hive Tarsus and the Goldenhand. That is information I can definately put to good use and an excellent source of inspiration.

Hire semi-competent assasins through a middleman, miraculously get wind of the plot "through your contacts", "spy network" or whatever just in time to bust through the door at the very last minute, saving the day. Or some other scheme proving your characters worth and making him owe you.

It's still cloak and dagger, but at least its not going to end with a dead PC.

I would still seriously consider talking to people out of character. If your friends with the guy playing the Rogue Trader, or at least he seems like a reasonable guy, you could start with just talking to him, and ask directly what’s up with all the death and jail-time threats. Does the player actually expect you to go along with what the Rogue Trader says all the time? Is it because of what you’re saying or how you’re saying it? Etc. From there you guys can make a plan on how to ease out the tension in the party, or at least know that the tension isn’t going to splinter the group. The last thing I would resort to is trying to pull some in-game coup without the Rogue Trader player being part of it.

I suppose an outsider could find the story you told us hilarious. Your character's actions remind me a great deal of Jame Retief; a satirical sci-fi character who successfully resolves conflicts despite his superiors' incompetance. As for the spymaster bit... well, it can't be too bad of an idea if you use it on hostile NPCs instead of your fellow Explorers.

However, having dealt with problem players during my few times GMing and running games with varying degrees of success, I personally would not be amused if this sort of behavior was going on at my table. I'm not sure what, if anything, you're doing but I wouldn't be all that happy with the RT either. I wouldn't blame him for not rising to the bait if all I offered was "a barren rock appears on long range sensors" but ignoring a distress call? Come on, unless you already had somewhere really important to go, a distress call warrents at least a look (scanning the system for hostiles, performing another scan when orbiting the planet to determine if there is anyone left to save...)

RT: "My first priority is to myself and my safety."

Typical Imperial Noble unfortunately. Funny to read about and watch from a distance, but it must be a nightmare to work with/through.

Me if GM: "Well then you really picked the wrong career didn't you?"

If the Rogue Trader in my campaign behaved as in that STC scenario, he'd be airlocked or sidelined by the other characters. At the start of the campaign I made it clear to all players, especially the RT, that *none* of the roles are mere disposable minions. All of the class descriptions in the core book lead to this view, I just emphasised it. That and the whole point of a RT is to venture forth and explore/trade/make war in the name of the Emperor. "Playing it safe" wasn't on the job description.

Maybe the RT player in your campaign has a particular view on how a crew should function and what his duties to the Imperium are. But perhaps he should reread the blurb about Rogue Traders on p40. At the end of the day, a Rogue Trader that can't hold the respect and loyalty of his crew, especially the high level ones, is doomed to poverty or worse. I'd add to the calls to try and resolve things out of character, that situation isn't sustainable.

Thanks Captain Ravia - I feel very appreciated! If you didn't get the tarrifs concept I'm sure we can do a powerpoint presentation... just joking!

I'm against killing characters - although in our game we tend to threaten it in a tongue in cheek kind of way...

Have a talk to your GM and the RT player about the issue... If the player playing the rogue trader doesn't want to be a rogue trader - have his warrent pulled... though as a senschall, you may have the contacts to bring that about - not that I'm advocating that kind of behaviour!

If it's perspective that you all need - talk to your GM about a fun way of changing things about = try swapping characters - in fact the warp makes all things possible!

Why don't you get the player of the RT come onto these boards and explain themselves, there's plenty of us on these boards that are very dissaproving of their actions. Just imagine a Board of Inquiry at a Gross Misconduct Charge, Failure of Command (Resulting in Mutiny) Charge at a imperial navy installation as if you where all in the Navy. Personnally if that was the case, the verdict would probably be Death by Spacing, and the RT's Sibling would be granted the Warrant of Trade with a word from the Imp Admiral saying "We'll be watching you closely, Very Closely".

So do you think the RTs player will come here to answer the charges???

How about a new thread called " The Board of Inquiry" that we can do this kind of thing on a regular basis in a way of a military tribunal, with some of us as judges and juries, so we can mete out verdicts for various crime's that players do, so we then give their GM's some fun and inventive ideas to punish them for their crimes.

I think that'll be cool, it'll give me something to do with my spare time!

Ravion Lupus said:

OMG I LOVE THIS IDEA!!

But on another note I've taken your advice and talked to our RT. As it turns out he had not heard that I was subvocalizing, and as such he has been going all this time thinking I am undermining his authority. We decided to apologize for the misunderstanding. (him for not hearing, and me for not making sure he heard)

Hopefully this will be the end of the hostility barrage. Whether or not it will be the end of his cowardly incompetence is an issue I can work around

Thank you all so very much for your great ideas. I think it's safe to say that you've helped me realize how I can improve my roleplay and make my Seneschal a real asset to the group. Feel free to continue posting suggestions, schemes or tactics, but know that you've helped me solve the more pressing conflict

Sounds like a issue for the GM. When the game veers towards exploration and military conflict the Seneshal tends to take a back seat, while when it comes to trade or criminal/stealth/creed activities they really should come into their own. This kind has happened our recent play, where during negotiations and skulduggery the Seneshal of the Tenax dynasty managed to bring round a to treaty a largely hostile and suspicious lost human enclave, as well as set up the groundwork for the return in a months time. And all while assassinating just one individual which was impressive. Since then she has just sat brooding on her decks with the scribes summoning to rogue trader to have a go at him when he isnt taking into account forward planning. Which is grating but hey thats her job

Its quite hard to pull off. Ideally all endevours must have kind of equal foucuses on the trade/conquest/exploration/criminal/creed compass points of the rogue trader compass.I think that exploration and conquest are the easiest to pull off in GM ing terms, while the others require narrative interaction and a lot of planning by the GM, so its easier to fall into that cycle.

One usefull way is randomly determine what the endevour is going to be like to force the GM to think and plan more clearly and in a more balanced fashion. On the dark heresy website someone has quite brilliantly decided to create endevour cards for all the cardinal points. Just make the GM pick 3 out of a hat and get him/her to work it round those themes, which invariably means a bit of planning.. Eventually one of the creed/crime/trade trio should come and allow the Seneshal a chance to shine in an area of competance that is in syncrony with his skill set.

Also the RT sounds like just about every British officer from UK 's Napoleonic TV show 'Sharpe'. Some clueless arrogant noble, who is being a bit flippant with his men and surroundings..The last surviving descendant of his dynasty huh? boy he has to buck up his ideas in the expanse if he want to keep on living...

Captain Harlock said:

Except Wellington and Sharpe and quite a few others. Sharpe is a killing officer, the bad ones are murdering officers

1: Get some Polymorphine 2: Kill the sucker 3: Steal his identity 4: Profit!

Plan B is acquire a 2nd ship, move yourself and the other players onto it and the f**kwit rogue trader can do his own thing.

As far as functional and profitable ventures go there are only two classes IMO which excel at making things happen- the Navis who will get you somewhere quickly as possible, in one piece to where you need to go and the Seneshal who will get the deals, information and acquisition to make things happen. The RT is handy from the perspective that they have good command skills, (but so do Navigators and Archmilitants later on) as far as a dynasty goes you can simply be an employee operating under their writ as part of a fleet.

Make yourself VERY important to the RT:

Step one: Next time you are planetside arrange a meating with the Inquisitor of the world. Tell him that you wish to supply him with information about the RT regularly as you fear that he may abandon the ways of the Emperor (as he is an enemy of the Ecclisiarchy this should be appretiated), each month you send an astropath message and if more then half a year goes without any messages the Inquisitor is to assume the worst and mark the RT as a traitor. Also ask for a loyal bodyguard of Inquisitorial Stormtroopers just in case.

Step two: Start preach of the emperor to the crew and espesially highlight the sins the RT commits, make sure that most crew replacements are made from pilgrims and other zelous followers of the emperor.