I'm fine with one pack. The Comms figure from specialists looks just like an Inferno figure. Buy an extra Veers or use one of your Scout troopers or whatever. Iden came with an extra head and arms, the ISF will come with extra heads and 2 cards, I feel like the only reason to buy 2 boxes is for if you really want to play in a big tournament with 2 generic squads.

I'm actually happy all these packs really only need 1 purchase except the BX Command Droids. They look too good and too easy not to field 2 large units. And I don't think they'll be as easy to convert and won't have extra parts either.

3 hours ago, Uetur said:

The rebels couldn't really make infiltrate work as a strategy but between Iden, Op Vader and these guys the Imperials might be able to.

The Clones may be able to do the same thing but with scout. Rex ( and 2 squads of his choosing) and ARC troopers can all get Scout 2. With certain deployments, you can really make some hay with an alpha strike there.

Just now, buckero0 said:

The Clones may be able to do the same thing but with scout. Rex ( and 2 squads of his choosing) and ARC troopers can all get Scout 2. With certain deployments, you can really make some hay with an alpha strike there.

Scout is more dependent upon deployment than Infiltrate though, but yes, a large number of scouting models can also be very powerful. Even having a bunch of units with Scout 1 to follow behind Rex and his associates can be very useful with the token sharing.

18 minutes ago, buckero0 said:

The Clones may be able to do the same thing but with scout. Rex ( and 2 squads of his choosing) and ARC troopers can all get Scout 2. With certain deployments, you can really make some hay with an alpha strike there.

Add to that AT-RTs with Scout 1, and with a few extra Recon Intels you can have your whole list with Scout 1-2.

On 8/5/2020 at 2:38 PM, Khobai said:

I dont share your optimism. By not taking 3 sniper teams you will be completely outactivated. Thats just how the game is right now.

Having these guys compete for slots with deathtroopers and sniper teams combined with the fact you cant even run two units out of the box made this boxset dead on arrival.

Some very bad decisions went into this that make me question if FFG understands their own game...

Big deal. Don't let the group think control your list building. Clones have low activation count and they win.

30 minutes ago, Tirion said:

Big deal. Don't let the group think control your list building. Clones have low activation count and they win.

Yes, I agree recent competition events have showed that. The TTS gencon one in particular, although I have my doubts at this stage about the balance of arcs but time will tell on them.

TOP 4 at Gencon Saber tank list, separatist AAT , Jyn/Cassian Scariff list, and an Imperial list that I haven't heard the make up of, while ARCS/BX weren't legal for this one I like the spread on the results , I don't think Legion is in a bad way, and with inferno/wren incoming , there is def more competition for that slot.

I guess that's one way to "fix" strike teams: saturate the Special Forces slot with more effective units...

I want to give big happy hugs to everyone who is also upset at the Inferno Squad box not having 8 minis.
It pisses me off to some deep core level.
I can accept being sold too many minis like in the old boxes where you got 2 HV weapons and only used 1. The other was an option, or a spare body, or whatever.
But now with squads costing more money (yes, I know it is due to better plastic - I accept this), I feel cheated to buy a box that shorts me a miniature. The box clearly needed 8 minis, and it only has 7.

Yeah, I'm probably gonna buy two, but not for the actual reason most are thinking (I really like the Tie Pilot look). But I can still oly make 3 units from that, and I can't even have both Hask and Meeko in helmted / unhelmeted options. You only get 14 minis from 2 boxes, and if you want 2 base squads + T-21 (10 men), 1 mini as base for Inferno + Hask and Meeko... well that only leaves one Hask/meeko body to alternate between helment / no helmet.

I feel cheated at some fundamental level... like I love the Wren box because it is perfect. It is a box that 100% of the minis can be used right from the box.
But this box leaves me feeling severely disappointed.

1 hour ago, KryatDragon said:

Yeah, I'm probably gonna buy two, but not for the actual reason most are thinking (I really like the Tie Pilot look). But I can still oly make 3 units from that, and I can't even have both Hask and Meeko in helmted / unhelmeted options. You only get 14 minis from 2 boxes, and if you want 2 base squads + T-21 (10 men), 1 mini as base for Inferno + Hask and Meeko... well that only leaves one Hask/meeko body to alternate between helment / no helmet.

Either I'm misunderstanding what you say, or you've got it wrong.

Two boxes come with 14 minis, yeah. And for 3 units (inferno + 2 ISF) you need one generic + Del + Gideon + 4x2 generics + 2 heavy weapons. That's a total of 13 minis. Obviously you don't need two Del/Gideons because you can only bring 1, so the ones in the second box will go with helmet and into an ISF unit. And you still have one mini to spare. Where is the problem?

3 hours ago, KryatDragon said:

I feel cheated at some fundamental level... like I love the Wren box because it is perfect. It is a box that 100% of the minis can be used right from the box.
But this box leaves me feeling severely disappointed.

I share your disappointment but not at a fundamental level. You can still use 100% of the minis by putting the namend ones into corps units (which will probably the main use of the minis anyhow).

Also as stated already if you buy 2 you can field 3 units with a spare body that you can gift (sell) to somebody with only 1 box to give them the possibility to field both units. With a little effort you could also use the spareparts of Iden and some other unused Stormtroopers or scouts to convert another mini. Still not defending the approach, but not a dealbreaker imo.

I for one think the models look dope.

Could see one unit running with infiltrating Vader.

7 hours ago, Qwar said:

Either I'm misunderstanding what you say, or you've got it wrong.

Two boxes come with 14 minis, yeah. And for 3 units (inferno + 2 ISF) you need one generic + Del + Gideon + 4x2 generics + 2 heavy weapons. That's a total of 13 minis. Obviously you don't need two Del/Gideons because you can only bring 1, so the ones in the second box will go with helmet and into an ISF unit. And you still have one mini to spare. Where is the problem?

I may not have made myself clear.

I'll start by saying this: I bought 2 copies of Sabine to build with both load outs and so that one could be wearing a Helmet and one could be without a helmet.

So from the 14 minis of 2 boxes I get:
2x Base Units + T21 (5minis) x2 (Total 10 minis)
1x Gideon, Del, Grunt Squad (3 minis) - say wearing helmets.
That is the first 13.

Now I have 1 spare mini. I can not make both Del and Gideon into the bare headed version. I can only make 1.

For me this is a thing, because I Like painting the actual character - ie: no helmet, but prefer to see my soldiers on the field wearing their cover. (I play space marines and not a single man goes into battle without a helmet on). So with some characters I tend to sometimes double buy. So in this case, I'll probably magnetize. BUT, I kinda would have preferred to have a pair of 'showcase' minis.

It is the most petty and insignificance part of my sadness.

35 minutes ago, KryatDragon said:

I may not have made myself clear.

I'll start by saying this: I bought 2 copies of Sabine to build with both load outs and so that one could be wearing a Helmet and one could be without a helmet.

So from the 14 minis of 2 boxes I get:
2x Base Units + T21 (5minis) x2 (Total 10 minis)
1x Gideon, Del, Grunt Squad (3 minis) - say wearing helmets.
That is the first 13.

Now I have 1 spare mini. I can not make both Del and Gideon into the bare headed version. I can only make 1.

For me this is a thing, because I Like painting the actual character - ie: no helmet, but prefer to see my soldiers on the field wearing their cover. (I play space marines and not a single man goes into battle without a helmet on). So with some characters I tend to sometimes double buy. So in this case, I'll probably magnetize. BUT, I kinda would have preferred to have a pair of 'showcase' minis.

It is the most petty and insignificance part of my sadness.

While unfortunate, I'm sure this box set will be available piecemeal on Ebay. If not, you could always buy a third box and sell individual figures to get your 15th mini.

I was initially pretty down on the generic unit, but the more I look at them and tinker with lists, the more I like them. Sure, they're not as powerful as Death Troopers, but they are very similar in a lot of ways, and they're cheaper. DTs with the DLT-19D, E-11D Config, and Offensive Push are 122 points. ISF with the T-21 and Offensive Push are only 101. You lose being able to attack at range 4 with Suppressive, and their defense isn't quite as good, but 21 points cheaper isn't nothing. Plus you can take a second Training upgrade if there's something specific you want, and Infiltrate can be nice when the situation (and list) supports it.

10 hours ago, KryatDragon said:

I want to give big happy hugs to everyone who is also upset at the Inferno Squad box not having 8 minis.
It pisses me off to some deep core level.
I can accept being sold too many minis like in the old boxes where you got 2 HV weapons and only used 1. The other was an option, or a spare body, or whatever.
But now with squads costing more money (yes, I know it is due to better plastic - I accept this), I feel cheated to buy a box that shorts me a miniature. The box clearly needed 8 minis, and it only has 7.

Yeah, I'm probably gonna buy two, but not for the actual reason most are thinking (I really like the Tie Pilot look). But I can still oly make 3 units from that, and I can't even have both Hask and Meeko in helmted / unhelmeted options. You only get 14 minis from 2 boxes, and if you want 2 base squads + T-21 (10 men), 1 mini as base for Inferno + Hask and Meeko... well that only leaves one Hask/meeko body to alternate between helment / no helmet.

I feel cheated at some fundamental level... like I love the Wren box because it is perfect. It is a box that 100% of the minis can be used right from the box.
But this box leaves me feeling severely disappointed.

While I don't have horse in this specific race, let's not get lost that their costs are crazy higher with the new plastic.

We have to remember the previous plastic was cut off of the sprues for us and semi cleaned up, and put in bags. There is less labor and less bags being purchased. You could argue there is more work going into the sculpts now but their costs are not 40% higher as ours are. They make a higher margin on these new boxes than they did on the old ones.

26 minutes ago, Tirion said:

While I don't have horse in this specific race, let's not get lost that their costs are crazy higher with the new plastic.

We have to remember the previous plastic was cut off of the sprues for us and semi cleaned up, and put in bags. There is less labor and less bags being purchased. You could argue there is more work going into the sculpts now but their costs are not 40% higher as ours are. They make a higher margin on these new boxes than they did on the old ones.

Given that the old core box also increased in price with no change in materials, I think the price change just happened to coincide with the change in material. B1s were the same price as all the other boxes released around the same time, despite the different material.

5 minutes ago, Caimheul1313 said:

Given that the old core box also increased in price with no change in materials, I think the price change just happened to coincide with the change in material. B1s were the same price as all the other boxes released around the same time, despite the different material.

I don't think it was a coincidence I think they used that as cover

48 minutes ago, Tirion said:

I don't think it was a coincidence I think they used that as cover

That is what I meant to say, that it wasn't the cause, just a good excuse.

34 minutes ago, Tirion said:

I don't think it was a coincidence I think they used that as cover

Just look at Armada. New ship expansions won't come with dials anymore. The price definitely did not go down even as FFG's cost went down.

SOP for FFG

3 hours ago, KryatDragon said:

I may not have made myself clear.

I'll start by saying this: I bought 2 copies of Sabine to build with both load outs and so that one could be wearing a Helmet and one could be without a helmet.

So from the 14 minis of 2 boxes I get:
2x Base Units + T21 (5minis) x2 (Total 10 minis)
1x Gideon, Del, Grunt Squad (3 minis) - say wearing helmets.
That is the first 13.

Now I have 1 spare mini. I can not make both Del and Gideon into the bare headed version. I can only make 1.

For me this is a thing, because I Like painting the actual character - ie: no helmet, but prefer to see my soldiers on the field wearing their cover. (I play space marines and not a single man goes into battle without a helmet on). So with some characters I tend to sometimes double buy. So in this case, I'll probably magnetize. BUT, I kinda would have preferred to have a pair of 'showcase' minis.

It is the most petty and insignificance part of my sadness.

Well, you kind of can have your showcase minis. The issue is that you cannot run the 3 squads and have *all* of them in helmets.

Gideon is most likely going to be the 10th mini in your generics (at least for me - he’s got the right gun) so you build him with a helmet. Go ahead and build Del with a helmet too from box 1.

So the minis for Del and Gideon from box 2 go helmetless. You are now just stuck with showcase, helmetless minis when you run 3 squads (two generic, one Inferno Squad). Otherwise, pretty much every other way you can play them would allow for all figures being in helmets.

12 minutes ago, SoonerTed said:

Just look at Armada. New ship expansions won't come with dials anymore. The price definitely did not go down even as FFG's cost went down.

SOP for FFG

To me, that is ridiculous. It would be one thing if there were cardboard dials at least in the boxes, and the plastic ones were available as an "enhancement," like with X-wing.
But depending on your collection, you HAVE to buy the separate ones in order to ensure you have enough dials to field your ships. It would be like trying to play Legion without the order tokens.

Asmodee has been trimming costs wherever they can, hence the new "replacement" policy, putting all the RPGs and card sleeves into specific companies, and reducing the number of card sizes in order to reduce the sizes of card sleeves that have to be produced.

1 hour ago, Tirion said:

but their costs are not 40% higher as ours are. They make a higher margin on these new boxes than they did on the old ones

That's quite an assumption.

Hard plastics have different injection requirements than soft plastics, they also can require different machines, or may require change over costs. Let's also not forget that with these changes there are new problems they have to account for, which can get expensive during R&D, like sprue layout, seam lines, bad injection points, pressure issues, and don't even get me started on the investment costs of injection molds. Small, single cavity plastic injection molds usually cost between $1,000 and $5,000. Very large or complex molds may cost as much as $80,000 or more. Considering how much of this product they produce, there's a good chance there are several molds of each sprue they make. It's not a small investment.

I wouldn't assume Asmodee or FFG is just seeing dollar signs when they're investing to make a superior product and the costs reflect that.

5 minutes ago, Caimheul1313 said:

To me, that is ridiculous. It would be one thing if there were cardboard dials at least in the boxes, and the plastic ones were available as an "enhancement," like with X-wing.
But depending on your collection, you HAVE to buy the separate ones in order to ensure you have enough dials to field your ships. It would be like trying to play Legion without the order tokens.

Asmodee has been trimming costs wherever they can, hence the new "replacement" policy, putting all the RPGs and card sleeves into specific companies, and reducing the number of card sizes in order to reduce the sizes of card sleeves that have to be produced.

Okay, but be real, people who bought in heavy may have 30-50 of the extras laying around unused. This was a smart move for armada.

2 minutes ago, Darth Sanguis said:

Okay, but be real, people who bought in heavy may have 30-50 of the extras laying around unused. This was a smart move for armada.

But not the people who are just now buying in for Clone Wars. They end up having to spend more money than the early players.
I agree that people with a pre-existing collection don't need more, but what about people who are only just starting with the Clone Wars ships?

3 minutes ago, Caimheul1313 said:

But not the people who are just now buying in for Clone Wars. They end up having to spend more money than the early players.
I agree that people with a pre-existing collection don't need more, but what about people who are only just starting with the Clone Wars ships?

They can have some of mine. Literally for free.

The box of dials is a better way of dealing with it. Worst case, they have to buy 2-3 boxes of extra dials, but then never just have plastic to throw away or eat up storage.

I can't even count how many of those dials have ended up in a landfill because after the first 2 waves I was full up.