14 minutes ago, costi said:

Offensive Push only works for 1 move action, not for the entire activation.

He mentioned it in conjunction with Iden's 3 pip, which would give them Tactical 1. It's still only for one turn, but that's where the other aim comes from.

13 minutes ago, costi said:

Offensive Push only works for 1 move action, not for the entire activation

Ah, my mistake, even if that's the case, Iden's card grants tactical 1. Which does proc for each move. ( I suppose if you consider OP and her card each of those crit values should go up in the test pools, so I think my point still stands).

1 hour ago, thepopemobile100 said:

Yes although I don't know who the leader would be in the corp unit.

I imagine there will be a rules update saying you can't have two minis with the "Leader" keyword in the same squad.

1 minute ago, Nithorian said:

I imagine there will be a rules update saying you can't have two minis with the "Leader" keyword in the same squad.

Or you pick which one is the leader if you do, and can only use one bump to courage

When do these get released supposedly? September ?? ?? sometime

10 minutes ago, Kirjath08 said:

He mentioned it in conjunction with Iden's 3 pip, which would give them Tactical 1. It's still only for one turn, but that's where the other aim comes from.

I stand corrected. Still, unless you are shooting something with Armor, the value of crits goes down beyond a certain point and more hits give better results.

10 minutes ago, costi said:

the value of crits goes down beyond a certain point and more hits give better results.

but the flexibility is what makes it awesome.

I think the generic T21 is going to be gold. Critical 2 and Reliable 1 and preferred over Gideon or Del Meeko.

11 minutes ago, costi said:

I stand corrected. Still, unless you are shooting something with Armor, the value of crits goes down beyond a certain point and more hits give better results.

It really depends on what you're shooting. For 1-2 extra damage difference? I'd prefer crits. Can't guardian them. Can't dodge them (unless they have the upgrade), they go through cover, they work on armored units. Where's the drop off in value start?

1 hour ago, Darth evil said:

They are Shoretroopers with infiltrate in a competetive slot, they get no action economy like Mando's or ARC's, their heavy is a 4 white R3 gun. Everything they do DT's do better for minimal cost

I'm talking about inferno

1 hour ago, Khobai said:

youre not wrong. infiltrate has value. the problem is youre forced to choose between deathtroopers and snipers and inferno squad. and in that situation im almost always going with deathtroopers/snipers.

its not that inferno squad is inherently bad, and I would absolutely use them if they didnt compete with deathtroopers, but if I have to give up deathtroopers to use them the unit becomes a hard pass for me.

again they had no business being in the same slot as deathtroopers and snipers. it was a bad design choice. they shouldve been a unique corps unit.

I also dont like the fact they didnt give you 8 models to run both squads at full size.

So theres multiple reasons im not buying this unit.

How do you think a unit that was the definition of special forces should be corp and that by making them special forces was bad design.....

Death troopers don't compete for a SF slot if you run Krennic. And frankly, I don't see why you would run DTs without Krennic.

1 hour ago, Nithorian said:

I think it was intentional design. Because with Del and Hask being able to go into core units, you can field 3 effective units out of 1 box instead of 2.

Because they didn't give that option to Ursa and Tristan, they wanted you to be able to field both Mandalorian squads, as compensation, since they can only go in the generic unit or the Clan Wren unit.

I think it has more to do with almost all of the infantry having 6-7 models, so the casting machines/sprues are set up to support that many models at a time. It's only the ARC and Inferno where there are 3 Heavy options with a 4 man unit in addition to another, smaller unit that they run into problems.

1 hour ago, costi said:

Mandos have no action economy either.

Don't they have Nimble ?

44 minutes ago, Darth Sanguis said:

It really depends on what you're shooting. For 1-2 extra damage difference? I'd prefer crits. Can't guardian them. Can't dodge them (unless they have the upgrade), they go through cover, they work on armored units. Where's the drop off in value start?

Assuming the target is in heavy cover and has 1 Dodge token and no other defenses, crits only make a difference if they help bypass dodge and cover - 3 hits are cancelled so crits matter if they can change any of those 3 hits.

With Armor and Guardian the value of crits goes up.

4 minutes ago, Darth evil said:

Don't they have Nimble ?

I have never personally considered nimble part of action economy. Usually I think of it as getting two actions for the price of one in a synergistic fashion. Like charge, relentless, etc. Mando Resistance from my perspective doesn't have action economy where as Clan Wren has retinue.

4 hours ago, Bigbboyd said:

I think technically you could if you only ran 4 troops in the Inferno Squad without the T-21 (meaning you built all 5 troops with E-11s)

Paint the T-21 Stormtrooper from the Stormtroopers expansion as a Shadowtrooper, problem solved.

18 minutes ago, DtLS said:

Paint the T-21 Stormtrooper from the Stormtroopers expansion as a Shadowtrooper, problem solved.

Or just slap one of the extra helmets on your extra DT-F16 from your second set of Deathtroopers (everyone bought 2, right?!) and it’s the figure you run with Del and Gideon.

Quote

Death troopers don't compete for a SF slot if you run Krennic. And frankly, I don't see why you would run DTs without Krennic.

well if im not taking deathtroopers in a list im certainly not taking inferno squad which are worse than deathtroopers in almost every regard.

Any list youre going to use inferno squad in, deathtroopers are almost always better. and any list you wouldnt use deathtroopers in, you probably arnt going to use inferno squad in either, because theyre just worse deathtroopers and youre already not using deathtroopers.

the only time you might use inferno squad is with Iden but even then deathtroopers are still arguably better than the free aim/dodge token you get from Iden.

Quote

Death troopers don't compete for a SF slot if you run Krennic.

I have no desire to run Krennic though. And if I did run Krennic I still wouldnt use inferno squad because id be using death troopers instead. theres no reason to take inferno squad with krennic.

Quote

Mandos have no action economy either.

They do, they have nimble. And their move actions are more efficient since theyre speed 3.

Mandos are outright better than inferno squad. While I wouldnt go so far as to say inferno squad is bad they are definitely underwhelming.

Better yet you actually get all the models with mandos to use two units.

They dont give you all the models for two units of inferno squad which was a really poor decision.

24 minutes ago, Khobai said:

well if im not taking deathtroopers in a list im certainly not taking inferno squad which are worse than deathtroopers in almost every regard.

Any list youre going to use inferno squad in, deathtroopers are almost always better. and any list you wouldnt use deathtroopers in, you probably arnt going to use inferno squad in either, because theyre just worse deathtroopers and youre already not using deathtroopers.

the only time you might use inferno squad is with Iden but even then deathtroopers are still arguably better than the free aim/dodge token you get from Iden.

I have no desire to run Krennic though. And if I did run Krennic I still wouldnt use inferno squad because id be using death troopers instead. theres no reason to take inferno squad with krennic.

They do, they have nimble. And their move actions are more efficient since theyre speed 3.

I think Iden, Inferno Squad, two Imperial Special Forces, and Vader make for a VERY strong Infiltration setup. It is hard to deal with with red die, and can do a fair amount of damage on turn 1, while the bare corps units grab objectives.
That's something you can't do with Death Troopers.

Quote

Mandos are outright better than inferno squad. While I wouldnt go so far as to say inferno squad is bad they are definitely underwhelming.

Better yet you actually get all the models with mandos to use two units.

They dont give you all the models for two units of inferno squad which was a really poor decision.

ARCS have the same problem as Imperial Special forces regarding the models in the box. I think it is likely a limitation of the molds they are producing, where they are limited to 7 roughly human sized models.

4 hours ago, DarthDanMan said:

Question. Is it possible to run both Gideon and and Imp. Officer on a corps unit and then have Iden infiltrate to then promote said 3 courage corps to your new Commander?

4 hours ago, thepopemobile100 said:

Yes although I don't know who the leader would be in the corp unit.

4 hours ago, KarlVonCarstein said:

Gudeon is a heavy weapon upgrade, not a trooper upgrade, so it is possible. I'm not sure these guys will replace my death troopers, but the could be fun to run with my death troopers. I'm still more excited about putting Hask and Del Miko in shoretrooper units though.

No, there's been confirmation on the Discord channel that the upcoming clarifications to the RRG will point out that you cannot add more than one Leader to any given unit.

I agree Deathtroopers are slightly better, particularly with Krennic and without Iden. On the other hand, ISF is cheaper, particularly if you're adding heavy weapons. Depending on my build, there's a good chance I'd be willing to take the slight downgrade and go with ISF over Deathtroopers to open up points to spend elsewhere, or to go all-in on Infiltrate like Caimheul1313 suggested.

Everybody gangsta until these guys do Recon intel + Offensive push + Tactical strike + Retinue + Move/aim + Move/aim/shoot + Hunter and drop 5 or 6 crits on you, plus spare change. Repeat for up to two other ISF units you may have, plus Iden. And that might very well be turn one because everybody infiltrates now. You've just easily demolished one or two enemy units.

3 minutes ago, Qwar said:

Everybody gangsta until these guys do Recon intel + Offensive push + Tactical strike + Retinue + Move/aim + Move/aim/shoot + Hunter and drop 5 or 6 crits on you, plus spare change. Repeat for up to two other ISF units you may have, plus Iden. And that might very well be turn one because everybody infiltrates now. You've just easily demolished one or two enemy units.

Ha, ha, that's what I was thinking. In a perfect scenario, even if you only have 8-9 activations, you'll eliminate 1-2 activations of the opponent turn 1 or neuter them (ie, put 5 wounds on tautauns)

@Qwar Add Infiltrating Vader to taste. Five decently survivable units on the far or middle objective turn one are going to cause some damage on turn 1, not to mention just general disruption.

Empire does infiltration better than Rebels apparently.

10 minutes ago, buckero0 said:

Ha, ha, that's what I was thinking. In a perfect scenario, even if you only have 8-9 activations, you'll eliminate 1-2 activations of the opponent turn 1 or neuter them (ie, put 5 wounds on tautauns)

I think they are going to be perfect to counter snipers: They usually go on the flanks when it's a short deployment, where you can simply drop an ISF to their side and blast them first activation, probably with LOS to both minis; and they drop a lot of crits, so the Low Profile, if it were in use, doesn't do much.

8 minutes ago, Caimheul1313 said:

@Qwar Add Infiltrating Vader to taste. Five decently survivable units on the far or middle objective turn one are going to cause some damage on turn 1, not to mention just general disruption.

Empire does infiltration better than Rebels apparently.

Yeah, you're on the discord channel too, aren't you? I've already made my list, cannot wait to try it out with some unsuspecting victim...

Quote

Everybody gangsta until these guys do Recon intel + Offensive push + Tactical strike + Retinue + Move/aim + Move/aim/shoot + Hunter and drop 5 or 6 crits on you, plus spare change. Repeat for up to two other ISF units you may have, plus Iden. And that might very well be turn one because everybody infiltrates now. You've just easily demolished one or two enemy units.

I dont share your optimism. By not taking 3 sniper teams you will be completely outactivated. Thats just how the game is right now.

Having these guys compete for slots with deathtroopers and sniper teams combined with the fact you cant even run two units out of the box made this boxset dead on arrival.

Some very bad decisions went into this that make me question if FFG understands their own game...