4 hours ago, Des Darklighter said:

In terms of obstacle choice, I don't see the full benefit of gas clouds. Sure, the nantex can do tricky maneuvering around/through them, but so can Jedi and other aces. Generally, gas clouds benefit the list with fewer ships, which is probably not the nantex swarm. Aces are already the tougher matchup for these massed 2-die guns, and extra gas clouds over rocks means that aces have places to go where they probably just won't take damage (especially Jedi).

I ran large rocks with 5x SHG. You don’t care that much about formation just generally gaggled together, the dial on the Nantex is pretty darn good, and stuff getting rocked punishes those ace lists or anyone who brings large bases a lot more than you for options.

In my alternative list GG + 4 PAA and Gravitic Deflection+Treacherous combo I think you have a very good jousting value so you should fly in formation for the first part of the game. Asteroids don't bother you that much, because you have always access to all basic maneuvers except 1 straight, but don't put them too close to each other. You have 2 firing arcs on each ship so edge of the board and asteroids should protect you on the sides where you can't shoot.

Opponent on the other hand can't fly in formation against you, because he will trigger Treacherous with his own ships. So you will probably force swarm/beef to fly differently to the way they want. Enemy aces need to focus on one target to deal any damage because of 3 greens+focus+rerolls. Single shots don't do much against you, even 4 Red Dice with focus and TL shot is only 1.2 hits against 3 greens+ 2 rerolls + focus(1.9 is without rerolls).

I never thought I would see a list that would make me want to buy another Nantex (already own 3)! Way to go! This looks like a ton of fun.

I've been flying 3 SHG with Dooku, but with the points change I'm looking at new ways to update the list. It is impossible to say enough about the hyper-mobility of these little guys, very under-rated.

I think I'll give 4 PAA - Gravitic and Marksmanship + Grievous - Outmaneuver and Souless one a shot.

10 minutes ago, dunhop said:

I never thought I would see a list that would make me want to buy another Nantex (already own 3)!

At least they don't take up very much space!

My typical strategy with Nantex is to run them like a gnat swarm. Always in the same general area but never in formation and constantly rotating their arcs so they always get a shot. They excel at weaving in and out of tight spaces and getting blocks in places people wouldn't expect them to be in. This even helps against aces. I used them as blockers and then had Dooku follow up with a Protorp as the heavy hitter. Grievous can do this just as well. I'm excited to see this in action.

The next level of building this list is to add Gorgol. Gorgol is the same cost (28 points!) as Autoblaster M3A, but for me he is much better. I think he can be good in any CIS list for such low cost. Here he can block at I2 and he has this awesome ability, that let you repair Damaged Engine, Structural Damage, Disabled Power Regulator or any other ship card without spending an action (+ reposition during the System Phase). He also can take Targeting Computer as the only Nantex, it can be good if you have Probe Droids in your list.

On 8/2/2020 at 7:05 PM, Boreas Mun said:

I played today something simmilar but with 1 less ship and much better defense mods:

Petranaki Arena Ace (30)
Treacherous (2)
Gravitic Deflection (5)

Petranaki Arena Ace (30)
Treacherous (2)
Gravitic Deflection (5)

Petranaki Arena Ace (30)
Treacherous (2)
Gravitic Deflection (5)

Petranaki Arena Ace (30)
Treacherous (2)
Gravitic Deflection (5)

General Grievous (44)
Treacherous (2)
Soulless One (6)
Total: 200

View in Yet Another Squad Builder 2.0

It's also HS legal. You've got your focus for offense and in defense you should have 1-2 tractored Aces in the back protected by Treacherous by the ships in the front. So you have 3 green dice and 1-2 rerolls in the front and 2 green dice + cancel 1 hit/crit in the back. Also enemy ships can be used to block hits/crits.

You have everything on dial except 1 straight, so it is easy to fly 2x2 formation. Keep Grievous in the back or where you want.

It was really fun to play, so I want to play more games with this list.

Let me know what do you think about it.

Tried more or less the same but with Daredevil instead of Treacherous on Grievous, since he less often has an obstructing ship when he's flanking (which daredevil helps with).
General Grievous (44)
Daredevil (2)
Soulless One (6)
Ship total: 52
Petranaki Arena Ace (30)
Gravitic Deflection (5)
Treacherous (2)
Ship total: 37
Petranaki Arena Ace (30)
Gravitic Deflection (5)
Treacherous (2)
Ship total: 37
Petranaki Arena Ace (30)
Gravitic Deflection (5)
Treacherous (2)
Ship total: 37
Petranaki Arena Ace (30)
Gravitic Deflection (5)
Treacherous (2)
Ship total: 37

Total: 200

View in Yet Another Squad Builder 2.0: https://raithos.github.io/?f=Separatist Alliance&d=v8ZhZ200Z305X117WWW229Y354X255W228Y354X255W228Y354X255W228Y354X255W228&sn=Unnamed Squadron&obs=

The defensive loadout with Gravatic Deflectors and Treacherous (finally finding a use for this upgrade) was quite useful. The punch of the Belbullab offset the low damage output of the Nantex and they had the possibility to swoop in and use their bulls-eyes if the enemy went after Grievous. Treacherous also showed its value against swarms, allowing me to semi-joust them and still live as long as they obstructed each other (as Boreas Mun noted).
Previously, a halved or lost Nantex put a big dent in your points and some bad dice made it hard to justify their cost. The current lower cost seems much more balanced and a bad roll wont cripple your MOV.

I usually flew them in pairs, with Grievous as a lone flanker. All 3 components were however so close to each other that they often could support each other by getting another tractored ship into an enemy's arc or by threatening a flank.

Nice to see that others came to the same conclusion!

edit: I’m dumb

This question was posted on FB recently, in which step do you cancel a result with Treacherous? (because it is not dice modification and card doesn't specify)

Yesterday during play I realized that I can cancel crit before hits and it was awesome on a ship without shields.

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/708167152

Sith Takers twitch last night - flying a take on this list against FO acey ships.

We've been talking a lot about the Nantex here atm (if you missed it). Maybe it helps.

21 hours ago, Boreas Mun said:

This question was posted on FB recently, in which step do you cancel a result with Treacherous? (because it is not dice modification and card doesn't specify)

Yesterday during play I realized that I can cancel crit before hits and it was awesome on a ship without shields.

We're usually using it during the Neutralise Results step, allowing it to be used to cancel crits before hits. It it however as you say very unclear and a clarification would be welcome.

20 hours ago, Rich P said:

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/708167152

Sith Takers twitch last night - flying a take on this list against FO acey ships.

Nice game! Was thinking about trying out the same list, but has found some use every game for Daredevil. Aargh, choices! 😅 Would love to see more games with this list! 😀

My experience so far is that a nantex list is very dependant on initiative and my only loss (so far) was against an imperial list of 5x initiative 4 ships (3 interceptors and 2 tie advanced v.1) were I lost the initiative roll. Moving first against ships that had numbers, great reposition, 3 agility and many 3-die attacks was very hard when my opponent refused to joust with his entire list, making treacherous useless(great game by him). It also showed how easy it is for 2-dice attacks to fail against an agile defender if the dice aren't with you, really showing the importance of General Grievous to push through some damage. They could of course be used as excellent blockers, but the sheer number of enemy ships often negated this to some degree.

It was still a very tight game and I'm still convinced that the Nantex shines with the new points, but I think that the biggest hurdle for a bughouse swarm is to inflict damage against a competent opponent when you're moving last, making it hard to get that juicy bullseye on target.

12 hours ago, Ryuneke said:

We've been talking a lot about the Nantex here atm (if you missed it). Maybe it helps.

Thanks for shearing the thread, had totally missed it! 👍

On 8/14/2020 at 8:22 AM, Turcopolier said:

My experience so far is that a nantex list is very dependant on initiative and my only loss (so far) was against an imperial list of 5x initiative 4 ships (3 interceptors and 2 tie advanced v.1) were I lost the initiative roll. Moving first against ships that had numbers, great reposition, 3 agility and many 3-die attacks was very hard when my opponent refused to joust with his entire list, making treacherous useless(great game by him). It also showed how easy it is for 2-dice attacks to fail against an agile defender if the dice aren't with you, really showing the importance of General Grievous to push through some damage.

I'm not sure that I understand your conclusion. You were moving last because of General Grievous and you say that you need him to push damage, when you are moving last. The question is would you prefer (in this game) to move first with GG+4x PAA, move last with 5x PAA, or to move first with GG+5x naked PAA.

49 minutes ago, Boreas Mun said:

I'm not sure that I understand your conclusion. You were moving last because of General Grievous and you say that you need him to push damage, when you are moving last. The question is would you prefer (in this game) to move first with GG+4x PAA, move last with 5x PAA, or to move first with GG+5x naked PAA.

Might have worded that badly, gonna try to make myself a bit clearer I moved first with my entire list that game, meaning that my opponent could dodge many of my arcs when it suited him as all his ships had both boost and BR.

I would say that against an opponent that can arc dodge I would always want to move last, regardless of the version of my list. This helps all the ships in my list.

This is my experience, and definitely not some truth that I've discovered. But to answer your question, I would rank the options as follows:

1. Move last with 5x PAA

This lets me dodge some arcs and forces my opponent to make harder decisions.

2. Move first with GG+4x PAA

This was the referenced game. The Gravatic Deflection on the Nantex allowed me to survive some shots after I had misjudged the opponents moves, allowing them to tank some damage even after being arc dodged and tractored.

3. Move first with GG+5x naked PAA

This would be my last choice. I would have the option to block, but misjudging my opponent's move could put me in a spot where he or she could have unopposed shots on my ships with them having -1 agility.

On 8/16/2020 at 5:31 AM, Turcopolier said:

1. Move last with 5x PAA

This lets me dodge some arcs and forces my opponent to make harder decisions.

This seems ideal. You either get full board knowledge of your opponents ships and actions, or you bump and can still arc dodge and/or setup bullseyes with the ship ability.

There's live strim with our list now on GoldSquadronPodcast.

So is it better to run (in extended) just 6x PAA+CS and have more bid because you will win mirrors or these 3 Predators make that much impact in other matchups? Or moving last isn't that good in mirrors? I think it is.

8 hours ago, Boreas Mun said:

So is it better to run (in extended) just 6x PAA+CS and have more bid because you will win mirrors or these 3 Predators make that much impact in other matchups? Or moving last isn't that good in mirrors? I think it is.

Moving last is good in mirrors (and vs other i4s). I don't think predator matters as much as bid or crack