Hey everyone! I am brand new here, and excited to be a member of the community. I have only played Talisman twice, and that was roughly 10 years ago. But I did order a revised 4th edition on the 3rd of June, and I am hoping to receive it Tuesday or Wednesday.

So that being said, I am trying to read up on one or two good house rules to implement with all my friends. I have seen a lot of people complaining about the randomness of movement. I had the idea that perhaps a character can give up his die to move just 1 space. That way, if you can get near a board space you desperately need, you do not need the exact die number to visit it. I understand this may be an iffy suggestion, that is why I brought it here. My particular concern is pvp, if some other player lands next to you on their turn, they might be prime for a whooping.

Movement isn't really an issue once some objects are in play. There are plenty of Teleport opportunities. There are lots of modify movement types of items.

Many characters also have variations on movement.

I love the fact that sometimes things are just out of reach. Nothing spurs you on to play harder than a death pile nearby.

Tytanius said:

The majority of movement modifiying cards in 4ER are nothing like those of 2E. Potential for simplified and limited control of movement has been stripped. It has been replaced by pure range in the form of randomness. You will find no real movement modifiers (+1 or +2, etc).

The best comparisons are the Horse & Cart and the (Riding) Horse. The H&C no longer adds to movement at all (and has a reduced capacity). The Horse is 2D6 and move the total rolled instead of add +1 or +2. And the new Horse still didn't solve the old problem of hauling along a bunch of other followers on foot.

Objects for Teleport, though they come up, are not as plentiful as claimed. Certainly not in the base game! That is not rational argument anyway for the change of movement standards in 4ER and does not support any claimed of equal tactical potential for all characters in a game.

Don't get me wrong, I love the game. But obviously you like play with tactics for trying to win instead of only dumb luck. Nothing wrong with that if the tactics by their conditions of use are available to everyone in the game.

Go to TalismanIsland.com and into the Resource >> Expansions area. Try downloading some of the House Rules cards lying around there. You might find other things you'll enjoy as well, such as Retro cards and other recreations of original unchanged 2E and 3E cards rendered in 4E format. Theres a lot of other addons and enhancements as well, so long as you don't mind making some components yourself.

The 1 Space option is an old one that was used by many groups over the past 2 decades and four editions. If it works for you and yours, do it!

FORCED MARCH

The following House Rule card (like those found in House Rules Pack 1 at TalismanIsland.com) has not been generally released yet. It was designed to be used with 4ER standard cards for movement. It does not mix well with old style 2E movement modifier cards for players who don't want a lot of tactical choices dominating the game. You can look at these previews of the FRONT and BACK and see what you think. Right-click and View or Save. Both are 300ppi and suitable for print.

In general, those who prefer the pure randomness of 4ER movement won't like it. Those who prefer luck dominating most wins won't like it either. Those who can't think tactically, and estimate changing risks versus advantage will utterly hate it. But so far, when used with standard 4ER movement mechanics, its found predominantly positive response from test groups of long time players interested in tactical options not requiring retro active card replacements. If you read it carefully, you'll see that its potency is balanced with some obvious risks... and other risks not so obvious that require ability to think in the moment for changing tactical choices beyond random rolls and draws.

If you're just getting back into Talisman after years away from it, you might hold off on too many House Rules until you get comfortable with some of the obvious and not so obvious changes to the game. Anyone of them might seem small, and many players claim 4ER is very much like 2E; I'm not so sure I'd agree with that so generally, but there it is.

I agree that I need to experience at least a few 4RE games before making any changes probably. I cannot even be sure what kind of group dynamic we will have, as none of my current friends have ever played. All of my old group has moved on, including myself. Personally, I do like some tactics, but I have a clear understanding what I am for with this game I just bought . I am actually really looking forward to it. Still, I would like to have some ideas on the back burner, so I can be observing how they might have changed the game, for better or worse. That forced march looked interesting, I do like the idea of sacrificing something to gain something.

Thanks everyone so far!

Your friends are in for a treat.

My friends are all now pretty well hooked.

Happy gaming indeed! And welcome back to Talisman.

JCHendee said:

Interesting, a couple of things spring to mind:

• There is no mention of Places. It says that you only encounter Events, Enemies & Strangers. I would have thought that compulsary places should also be encountered. e.g. March or Maze
• How do you identify a player on a Forced March? Do you have a marker that you place on their target or just rely on memory ?
• It seems quite easy to be able to reach your destination if a few spaces away. e.g. 4 spaces away is a 50:50 and the closer the better. I am not sure you would induce the Forced March until you were close anyway. Did you try the dynamic of restricting the movement to 1 space per turn? This would introduce more tactics, especially if you were trying to get to , for example, the Oasis.

Yes, there are definite quandaries, as you've pointed out. Some of these have come up in test groups as well, which is why I've held off sharing this until now. A clean method for dealing with these issues without a lengthy set of criteria hasn't been developed yet. We're still in experimentation amid not being able to play too often.

Forced March was actually conceived over a year ago. I introduced for use in Talisman Task as way to fulfill "destination" criteria for completling "quests" in that alternative quest system. It was replaced with a different mechanic that went back to leaning on random movement but still forcing a quester to stop on required spaces.

The purpose of Forced March is to be able to get to known destinations in the Land - not things that pop up on the board. Hence the problems.

* There is no mention of Places. It says that you only encounter Events, Enemies & Strangers. I would have thought that compulsary places should also be encountered. e.g. March or Maze

A good point. We've been considering a wording that isn't in the rules card yet about encountering required card instructions vs optional ones. The wording got too convoluted with a lot of the exceptions that exist. But somewhere therein may be part of the answer.

* How do you identify a player on a Forced March? Do you have a marker that you place on their target or just rely on memory ?

Forced March is declared outloud. All players know then who is on Forced March. If someone forgets that when they can take advantage of the marcher, too bad. That's part of the nature of the game on the player side of things.

Did you try the dynamic of restricting the movement to 1 space per turn? This would introduce more tactics, especially if you were trying to get to , for example, the Oasis.

Yes, we did. And it produced abuses galore!

Talisman's innate contradiction of everyone knowing what's appeared in the "wild" makes one space movement contradictory. Even in having heard "rumors" about the Holy Lance being somewhere in the Fields nearest the Tavern, random movement still implies having to search for it. One space movement would eliminate the "search" for even something so rumored.

This is also why a bunch of Teleports as the only controlled movement is not a satisfying substitute for the old 2E cards that used movement modifiers. With those you still had to roll but had a more likely chance to hit a needed space. Of course there's still the problem that say 1 Horse somehow allowed you take and whole entourage of Followers with you. But with those old 2E move-mod cards you at least still had to roll a die. The modifier simply implied a mode of transportation that allowed one to search a little quicker. And though contradictory in being the only way to get to a "known" stable location (City, Village, Etc.) it was better than nothing. Now we have only 2D6 for blind distance or a Teleport and little in-between. Back to the point...

We all know the tactical advantage of getting that traditionally mislabeled Poltergeist. I've actually used that card for long periods, avoiding crossing water, if my character is at least little beefed up. The Poltergeist (which it isn't) has actually more advantage than disadvantage for anyone who isn't just starting a character off in the first 1/3 of the game.

F.M. was intended for reaching places like the City, Tavern, etc. which every citizen in the land would known pretty well how to find it. You've abandoned your "questing" and need to haul ass for survival. Still no easy answer as yet on how to limit Force March to this. Suggestion for further testing are more than welcome.

At one point we did try the variation that you couldn't draw cards while on Forced March, but so much of the dangers of the Land are in the deck and not on the board that it just didn't work. But I (and others) don't want to make getting to the goodies (cards) a side benefit of being able to get to a needed location (space).

Hey all!! I appreciate the good will; it feels great to be back. There are some interesting things going on in this thread. I was thinking about that Forced March, and this came up:

BanthaFodder said:

If, for example, I was heading to a particular destination, and I was 4 spaces away, I would just reroll once. Even if I roll a 6, I am still within 2 spaces, just on the other side. So I would probably wait until I was within 2 spaces before declaring the March, assuming I can deal with what's on the other side; there might be a dragon over there waiting for me. Conditions always affect things like this. Anyway, I like the idea of combining a move of 1 plus the March.

OK. Closed window by mistake. Who says cloud computing is a good idea?

Shortened version this time...

First, I am not criticising the march, it just sent me off thinking about how else would I try to solve this problem.
Generally was thinking about how it was a bit too easy to get somewhere. Anyone can invoke at any time and there is not a lot of

pain involved. It also seems quite complicated which is un-Talismanesque. (Sorry for the butchery of the English language)

Rules can be vague (it seems) but not complicated.

So, I had a good ol' think and inspired by JC's comment about known spaces and the old 2ed modifiers I came up with these criteria

1. This needs to be an ability. Gained by either:

• Special Ability of character
• Follower
• Object

This would mean only a limited number of characters could have this valuable ability although it could be stolen in some cases.

It follows a common approach used in talisman to replicate abilities in drawable cards.

2. This useful ability needs to have a a direct consequence as a counterpoint.

Anyway I came up with 2 approaches.

Orienteering: Stopping at a non-drawcard space instead of your roll's destination.

Essentially the same as the march, you would have to declare you are intending to do this before you roll.

You would name the space you want to stop at (if sufficient roll)

The difference would be it must be a non-drawcard space. i.e. a space that has a fixed object in it.

The penalty I am torn between making the player miss a turn (before or after) or alternatively, suffer a (-1) penalty on all die rolls for that turn.

That would include the movement rolls, battles, saving with armour, spells etc etc

Suggestions for implementations:

Character: Cartographer S:2 C:4 F:3 L:4 G:1 A: N SA: As above + You only need to roll 2 die in the Mines + You are not affected by the Maze

Follower: Surveyor

Object: Atlas

Scouting: Reducing the value of the die roll for movement

This is in effect the reverse of the Horse&Cart approach that allowed you to move on an extra space.

Instead, you can reduce the value of the roll to reach something that is closer to you.

The idea would be that you are searching along the path you are taking and so would be able to find your preferred target

The penalty in this case I think I would like to see as being spending a Fate per space reduction which is an alternative to a complete re-roll.

As this is not a global effect but an ability, I think that this is reasonable.

Sugestions for implementations:

Character: Scout S:3 C:3 F:4 L:4 G:1 A:N SA: As above + Safe in Forest/Crags + may add 1 in Battle in Woods/Hills

Follower: Native

Object: Compass

I haven't thought all this through and I haven't playtested it but just throwing the ideas out there. Right, off to sleep now.

P.S. Safari 4 and this forum do not mix!

Hey there, I don't mind criticizism, and no offense was taken. This quandry about a rule and method of reaching non-draw spaces in 4ER has simply been batted about for a year now in my group.

I think the Orienteering rule is an interesting one, though not as a replacement of the purpose of F.M. What cost would be best baffles me as well. My lean would be to make it cost DEARLY if used to target any space, especially for cards already on the board. I might even go for the -1 AND miss a turn.

I'd bee more inclined to the miss a turn for non-draw spaces, though that would be applied whether one rolled enough to reach the target space or not. For example.

• You're down to 1 Life and making a run for the Chapel at 3 spaces away. You declare your desitination, and roll a die. You roll a 1 and don't make it, but you still have to miss a turn for declaring. (OPTIONALLY: you take -1 in any combat that occurs for exertion in Forced March).

NOTE: on a range for 1 die, 3.5 is the median. In movement, the average number of spaces to any space that is within that range will be 3 spaces, so its a reasonable number to use in estimating rules concerning normal movement. The above scenario is still a little iffy; there's 66.6% chance of success, which seems a little steep... maybe.... maybe not.

AS TO SAFARI... I feel your pain. But I've had headaches here no matter what browser I've used, but S certain has more. I lean mostly on FireFox these days.

It has been a while since anyone peeked into this topic, so I don't know if previous participants are still around. I've worked out another slight variation on the Forced March house rule. Anyone interested can take a peek. Right-Click and Save/View to see the full sized image. You can still find the previous version for comparison HERE.