My first true love Armada is getting a t series tactical droid BEFORE Legion......... I'm laughing and crying at the same time.

I thought the most interesting thing is they mentioned a new pass mechanic comming to Armada. Maby we'll get something similar in legion.

would be interesting. Its a way bigger deal in armada though. FFg doing some shady stuff with that starter though not releasing the ships in stand alones so if you want more you have to wast a bunch of money and buy a bunch of components a second time that you don't need for basically one ship.

2 minutes ago, Tirion said:

would be interesting. Its a way bigger deal in armada though. FFg doing some shady stuff with that starter though not releasing the ships in stand alones so if you want more you have to wast a bunch of money and buy a bunch of components a second time that you don't need for basically one ship.

Did they say they would never do so? Even if they did, I wouldn't consider that shady. It's still cheaper than buying them individually, and they are just toys that you can choose to not buy if you wish.

1 minute ago, arnoldrew said:

Did they say they would never do so? Even if they did, I wouldn't consider that shady. It's still cheaper than buying them individually, and they are just toys that you can choose to not buy if you wish.

they said they had no plans...... and how is buying a $100 starter cheaper than buying a single ship from that starter?

5 minutes ago, arnoldrew said:

Even if they did, I wouldn't consider that shady. It's still cheaper than buying them individually, and they are just toys that you can choose to not buy if you wish.

Honestly, the best part about this for organizers who plan on buying in heavily is we'll have 2-3 extra of the essential pieces (Damage deck, tools, dice, ect) to donate to interested new players who want to buy in but are unsure about the core pieces or have specific ships they want. I think it was wicked smart of FFG to go this route.

1 minute ago, Tirion said:

they said they had no plans...... and how is buying a $100 starter cheaper than buying a single ship from that starter?

Buying the pieces individually is more expensive. Just like how everybody sighs when people buy a bunch of P1 and Droideka expansions instead of just buying Core sets. You really don't understand what I was saying?
There's also the fact that they will literally never make people happy. People on the far end of the spectrum of where you are will be angry until they can buy every single piece individually from FFG. FFG literally can't make everyone happy? Most people are pretty happy with the core set/starter method they use that gets us a bunch of stuff much more economically.

9 minutes ago, arnoldrew said:

Did they say they would never do so? Even if they did, I wouldn't consider that shady. It's still cheaper than buying them individually, and they are just toys that you can choose to not buy if you wish.

It's not even really cheaper. A medium ship and two small ships with a squadron pack is $105 ($40 for a medium, $20 for smalls, and the new squadron packs are $25). But you get less than a full squadron pack, and if you aren't a new player, all the extra stuff doesn't add to the value. It is a good enough value that I would be totally fine buying one of them. But unless I wanted exactly 2 of the medium ship and 4 of the small ships I would be very annoyed at having to spend another $100 to get anything else in the box.

Compared to the Legion starter sets this is not nearly as good of a deal.

8 minutes ago, arnoldrew said:

Buying the pieces individually is more expensive. Just like how everybody sighs when people buy a bunch of P1 and Droideka expansions instead of just buying Core sets. You really don't understand what I was saying?
There's also the fact that they will literally never make people happy. People on the far end of the spectrum of where you are will be angry until they can buy every single piece individually from FFG. FFG literally can't make everyone happy? Most people are pretty happy with the core set/starter method they use that gets us a bunch of stuff much more economically.

not in this case it is basically just for the acclimator or the CIS equivalent. The other ships wont be as big of a deal and the fighters are a waste at least on the GAR side a less so on CIS.

@Darth Sanguis
You will also have a bunch of extra squadrons you don't need as well as some small ships you don't need all just to get some extra medium ships. Anyway sorry wasn't trying to start armada drama on the legion page.

TLDR - due to this practice some people will be unable to/refuse to buy more than one and be lacking extra ships. While others will buy 2 or 3 and have a bunch of plastic sitting around that at the most they will use for a few months until new stuff comes out.

16 minutes ago, arnoldrew said:

Buying the pieces individually is more expensive. Just like how everybody sighs when people buy a bunch of P1 and Droideka expansions instead of just buying Core sets. You really don't understand what I was saying?
There's also the fact that they will literally never make people happy. People on the far end of the spectrum of where you are will be angry until they can buy every single piece individually from FFG. FFG literally can't make everyone happy? Most people are pretty happy with the core set/starter method they use that gets us a bunch of stuff much more economically.

The difference here is that the Legion starter sets are an amazingly good deal. But, if you only want one extra Droideka (for example), it's only $30 because you can buy it separately. For Armada, if someone wants a third Hardcell after buying the CIS starter, they don't have a choice other than paying another $100 for the starter. Sure, they will get a bunch of other stuff which they could sell if they really don't want/need it, but most people probably don't want to deal with that. I definitely wouldn't want to.

As for making everyone happy, all they have to do is the same thing they have always done: make the stuff in the starter set available outside the starter sets. Granted, every starter set so far has had something available only in the starter set, but every other time it has been unique stuff that you only needed one copy of (e.g. Luke/Vader).

13 minutes ago, Tirion said:

@Darth Sanguis
You will also have a bunch of extra squadrons you don't need as well as some small ships you don't need all just to get some extra medium ships. Anyway sorry wasn't trying to start armada drama on the legion page.

I mean, I play sector fleet matches. Don't under estimate my need for extra squads and small ships lol

That said, I really do like this version better. I think it's better for new players. I organize the Armada group in NE Ohio. I can say with definitive certainty that the old core set kept a lot of players from buying in. The fact that the old core came with two factions but only 1 set of essentials meant anyone looking to grab only 1 faction had to eat a half value core that came with ships and squads they wouldn't use or find someone else to split 2 cores with. This new starter set is the perfect middle ground.

I can't imagine the ships in the new core wont sell separately. Even if they don't release them, there's always someone willing to part stuff out. (Actually there was an old Ebay dealer who did just that for all the cards and packs. I suspect he'll be back splitting the cores up to sell the ships individually. Especially if theres a demand for it. )

Try not to worry man, I think it's gonna be okay.

7 minutes ago, Darth Sanguis said:

I mean, I play sector fleet matches. Don't under estimate my need for extra squads and small ships lol

That said, I really do like this version better. I think it's better for new players. I organize the Armada group in NE Ohio. I can say with definitive certainty that the old core set kept a lot of players from buying in. The fact that the old core came with two factions but only 1 set of essentials meant anyone looking to grab only 1 faction had to eat a half value core that came with ships and squads they wouldn't use or find someone else to split 2 cores with. This new starter set is the perfect middle ground.

I can't imagine the ships in the new core wont sell separately. Even if they don't release them, there's always someone willing to part stuff out. (Actually there was an old Ebay dealer who did just that for all the cards and packs. I suspect he'll be back splitting the cores up to sell the ships individually. Especially if theres a demand for it. )

Try not to worry man, I think it's gonna be okay.

While I fail to see how less options is a better way to do it, I do appreciate the value it brings too your community.

Not worried just not a cool move to me

Just to play devilsnadvocate, they didn't say they had no plans to sell the starter ships individually, I believe they explicitly said that was something they might do down the road

Both the old Armada core sets and Legion core sets really really feel like FFG telling us to find a friend loser and split the box(es). Really good value at least for Legion since if I remember correctly the math came out to a free support, barricades, and dice for each box........................... Too bad the BARCs and Droidekars sort of both suck lol

FFG has always had some less then savory practices when it has come to their Star Wars products. X-wing with their super important cards in only one random ship not even in the faction you play comes to mind. This one I am on the fence on, but if it is one game that FFG should be generous to their fan base I feel like it should be Armada.

2 hours ago, Tirion said:

My first true love Armada is getting a t series tactical droid BEFORE Legion......... I'm laughing and crying at the same time.

Won't it be interesting to see if Armada and Legion switch roles in who is the red headed step-child of the Star Wars games............. Can't wait to see who gets an announcement about when they will announce stuff!!

1 hour ago, KarlVonCarstein said:

I thought the most interesting thing is they mentioned a new pass mechanic comming to Armada. Maby we'll get something similar in legion.

FFG has made it somewhat clear that they are doubling down on the two most controversial (I think?) aspects of the game. They will continue to push strike teams and that it is higher activation or bust (at least at the pro level). They said in one stream that getting to many activation starts to hurt the player, but it will be interesting to see if that is true or not as CIS gets more options.

37 minutes ago, RyantheFett said:

FFG has made it somewhat clear that they are doubling down on the two most controversial (I think?) aspects of the game. They will continue to push strike teams and that it is higher activation or bust (at least at the pro level). They said in one stream that getting to many activation starts to hurt the player, but it will be interesting to see if that is true or not as CIS gets more options.

Are they really pushing strike teams? Each faction has exactly 1 strike team, of which 3 can be included in a list. As for activations, the most common activation count in tournament lists is 10-11 (the first and second place lists from the recent Invader League were 11 and 10, respectively). 12 is pretty common. 13 isn't unheard of, but isn't common. Rebels can get up to 16, yet I have never heard of someone winning a tournament with more than 13, whereas there have been many instances of people winning tournaments with 8.

6 minutes ago, Lochlan said:

Are they really pushing strike teams? Each faction has exactly 1 strike team, of which 3 can be included in a list. As for activations, the most common activation count in tournament lists is 10-11 (the first and second place lists from the recent Invader League were 11 and 10, respectively). 12 is pretty common. 13 isn't unheard of, but isn't common. Rebels can get up to 16, yet I have never heard of someone winning a tournament with more than 13, whereas there have been many instances of people winning tournaments with 8.

Just depends on how you look at it since the two are intertwined. I am not sold either way right now, but I have seen the argument that keeping strike teams in the game is FFG not learning from past mistakes. i think that may be a bit............................... extreme, but I do wonder if taking the strike team option out would be better for the game as a whole? Does seem that ARCs are making GAR crazy OP right now (as for as TTS counts).

Personally I am not a fan of 2 to 3 strikes teams in every every list for padding for that 10 to 11 activation count. Just not sure how they would fix them. Echo and Fives sort of hint that at future of strike teams being unique/expensive specialist, but I think I much rather the way Clan Wren/Inferno Squad goes with three man squads.

@RyantheFett Clam Wren and Inferno squad are multi-character squads, which is quite the different design space from Strike Teams though, and do not fulfill the same roll at all as a Strike Team. We are probably overdo for another RRG update, so there might be further changes there, or some unit that is a hard counter to strike teams.

5 minutes ago, Caimheul1313 said:

Clam Wren and Inferno squad are multi-character squads, which is quite the different design space from Strike Teams though, and do not fulfill the same roll at all as a Strike Team. We are probably overdo for another RRG update, so there might be further changes there, or some unit that is a hard counter to strike teams.

I sort of hope that Clan Wren/Inferno is how they now do Special forces strike teams in the future. A soft reboot if you will? I mean Rebels/Empire have not gotten a second strike team option yet so it may be a long time before we figure out for sure. They still have a lot of unknowns when it comes to Legion.

I would not be surprised if FFG does something to make them not viable in the next update. Hard counter would be interesting tho.

1 hour ago, RyantheFett said:

I sort of hope that Clan Wren/Inferno is how they now do Special forces strike teams in the future. A soft reboot if you will? I mean Rebels/Empire have not gotten a second strike team option yet so it may be a long time before we figure out for sure. They still have a lot of unknowns when it comes to Legion.

I would not be surprised if FFG does something to make them not viable in the next update. Hard counter would be interesting tho.

Again, I don't view Clan Wren and Inferno as "Strike teams" in any way. Strike teams to me are cheap special forces options which owing to the Heavy Weapon being the leader allows for some LoS shenanigans to protect the small unit from being one shot. The character units of Clan Wren and (presumably) Inferno Squad on the other hand, are unique units and are almost more akin to a Spec Ops character than an actual unit.

The main "issues" I see with Strike Teams is that they are the cheapest non-Corps units in any army, so once all those slots are full, Strike Teams are the next thing to take. Additionally, Rebels don't really have another competitive choice to take in that slot, whereas Empire at least has some decent options. So unless something changes about the game to make having more activations WORSE, or something that changes the action economy, Strike Teams will still be taken in decent numbers.

Edit: The quickest "fix" to Strike teams that would render them completely unusable would be to make it so the Heavy weapon upgrade is not the Leader. Now the usual LoS tricks give all shots heavy cover, and once the Heavy is removed, it's no different than having one model left in any other unit. This would likely be the equivalent of nuking them from orbit though, which might be avoided by making the Snipers infinite range again, but that doesn't help the explosives at all.

7 hours ago, Tirion said:

My first true love Armada is getting a t series tactical droid BEFORE Legion......... I'm laughing and crying at the same time.

Uh, by a month? Armada ships in December, Specialists in January. You wouldn't even be waiting that long in between the two.

Unless delays are involved, but that'd be more likely to hit both of them at this point.

Edit: and if Armada Tactical droid counts, then Legion had one ever since they released the AAT.

I'm super confused. Seeing as how this has gone to an Armada thread I'll bite. It just seems that you're all impatient to get a wave post core box. What was the first wave of Armada ships released? Oh that's right, literally the ships that were in the core box (Victory, CR-90, Nebulon-B) plus some (Assault Frigate Mk II, Gladiator) and squadrons (Squadrons I). What was the first wave of Legion boxes released? Oh that's right literally the models that were in the core box, omitting commanders (Rebel Troopers, AT-RT, Stormtroopers, 74-Z Speederbikes) plus some (AT-ST, T-47 Airspeeder) and squadrons... Wait no, no squadrons. But still. Hold the front door folks. They're gonna show up. If you feel the need to buy 3 core boxes to max out in the early going then that's fine, but don't start dumping on FFG because they can't format releases. You just need to be like 3 months of patient. It's not like there are any real tournaments to play in anyway.

2 hours ago, Kirjath08 said:

Uh, by a month? Armada ships in December, Specialists in January. You wouldn't even be waiting that long in between the two.

Unless delays are involved, but that'd be more likely to hit both of them at this point.

Edit: and if Armada Tactical droid counts, then Legion had one ever since they released the AAT.

It was more of a joke than anything my friend

37 minutes ago, Crawfskeezen said:

I'm super confused. Seeing as how this has gone to an Armada thread I'll bite. It just seems that you're all impatient to get a wave post core box. What was the first wave of Armada ships released? Oh that's right, literally the ships that were in the core box (Victory, CR-90, Nebulon-B) plus some (Assault Frigate Mk II, Gladiator) and squadrons (Squadrons I). What was the first wave of Legion boxes released? Oh that's right literally the models that were in the core box, omitting commanders (Rebel Troopers, AT-RT, Stormtroopers, 74-Z Speederbikes) plus some (AT-ST, T-47 Airspeeder) and squadrons... Wait no, no squadrons. But still. Hold the front door folks. They're gonna show up. If you feel the need to buy 3 core boxes to max out in the early going then that's fine, but don't start dumping on FFG because they can't format releases. You just need to be like 3 months of patient. It's not like there are any real tournaments to play in anyway.

Did you miss the convo? they aren't releasing them...... They have no plans to at this point

1 hour ago, Tirion said:

Did you miss the convo? they aren't releasing them...... They have no plans to at this point

The exact phrasing in response to being asked if the ships in the starters will be available separately was "That's the kind of thing we're looking at doing down the road, Initially we're just pushing out the starters and squadron packs." To me, his use of Initially seems to just be referring to the first wave with the starters and squadron packs, and that the ships being released separately would be releasing later on. I'm guessing in a wave or two. Whilst I'm not a big fan of this, it does seem that we will be getting separate releases at some point and not "No plans".