X-Wing Stream @ 1500 CST (Link to recordings added)

By Hiemfire, in X-Wing

4 hours ago, PhantomFO said:

Underslung Blaster: wow that's a terrible card. A 2-die, range-1 attack, with the ordnance icon to prevent a bonus die, that can only attack a ship that enters range 1 in the direction of your turret, but only if you have a lock on it. And the only dice mod you can use is by spending that lock.

You can also have a friendly use Targeting Synchronizer, but then you're throwing more points down to make this card work.

It has a few things going for it as a card.

Firstly, unlike Snap Shot, the additional arc for strafing actually matters. No one really cares about the front arc coverage to get the cruddy bowtie, but side arc coverage at range 1 for knife fights can really make a big difference.

Second, TL only modification is worlds away better than an unmodified 2 dice attack. Vs a 2 dice unfocused defender you are looking at an 80% chance to deal damage, as opposed to a 50% chance.

The issue is, of course, it requires a TL, which means your trading your TL on your main attack... so modifying the attack vs most ships isn't a good idea as your trading around 1.1 damage for .3 damage vs an unfocused 2 dice defender. You can maybe do stuff with an R3 as well, as you can get a TL on a target for your primary and a target on your flank to try to hit with the turret. Seems questionable, but maybe if you already are holding a Target Synchronizer for some reason? I doubt a list of ships all rolling this to fire 'side saddle' with R3s and Synchs will make a ton of sense, but it is funny to imagine.

There is also mathy stuff with held focus actions.

The real winner with this upgrade is Lt. Bastian who can both set up the initial TL for free if an ally hits the target, and if they land a hit with this thing they can fire their follow up primary shot during the turn for free. As a bonus, their low initiative helps them out in actually catching people out.

It probably won't ever be great, especially if it ends up overpriced like with Snap Shot, but it has potential on one pilot at the very least as its a straight damage upgrade potentially on Bastian vs 2 and especially 1 dice defenders.

One weird thing is that despite the fact the benefit here is you may spend a TL to mod where you can't with a regular attack, this is generally a raw deal. Spending the TL first double tapping into a 2 dice focused defender only does an average expected damage of 1.7, while if you don't spend the lock you do 2.1, both because of the initial attack's damage and because your opponent may spend focus to avoid damage from the initial shot. A target locked attack at range 1 vs a 2 dice focus defender does 1.7 damage already on average, meaning using the main 'upside' to this vs Snap Shot completely removes any actual advantage from this upgrade in terms of damage output.

Still, vs a relatively common 'genre' of target, this thing is giving you .4 damage a turn if they land in your sights, which isn't nothing. Vs a 3 dice defender the value drops like a rock though. Only .2 damage, and while the value of not spending focus to reduce a damage on the first attack isn't as clear with 2 defense dice (Your probably only reducing damage by 1 on the follow up attack anyway, but maybe not, so it makes sense to spend the focus on the turret shot if you get the option and need to to reduce the damage), with 3 defense dice your target is much more likely to both have the focus for the follow up no matter what and know to just not spend it anyway. Vs a 1 dice defense target the thing completely chunks, at .6 bonus damage a turn, and with a focus, and Bastian is getting their TL back 90% of the time if they fire it on the first shot, meaning they are gaining a full damage a turn!

So this thing seems like a way to really put some pain on big base ships, especially for Bastian, rather than something you use to control aces. Considering the possibility of a meta shift towards that, its worth keeping an eye on unless its like... 8 points or something dumb which it probably will be.

Edited by dezzmont
1 hour ago, ClassicalMoser said:

Wrong again. Base contact counts as R0 (such as bumped) and that’s exactly how Buzz Droids work...

😄

Range section of the RR (starts on page 15, this is the first bullet on page 16):

"An object is at range 0 of an obstacle or device if it is physically on top of it."

Buzz Droids themselves set up a special exemption to that (it is printed on their condition card... a.k.a. a card ability), but they aren't the only device (remotes are a subtype of device, read the Remote section on page 16 of the RR if you don't believe me) out there.

Buzz droid text (bolded and underlined their exception):

"After an enemy ship moves through or overlaps you, relocate to its front or rear guides ( you are at range 0 of this ship ). You cannot overlap an object this way. If you cannot be placed at either set of guides, you and that ship each suffer 1 Icon damage hit .

Engagement Phase: At your initiative, each enemy ship at range 0 suffers 1 Icon damage crit damage."

It'd be pretty messed up to have R2 only be able to affect the 1 specific device in the game that makes its own exception to the range rules as to when it counts as being at R0 with his ability now wouldn't it. Heck he's only 2 charges anyways, which means the player has to make a decision. Be a good opponent, make them sweat over if they want regen or to remove that mine you lobbed into their flight path.

9 hours ago, ClassicalMoser said:

Also worth noting as it wasn't spoiled on-stream: A Light-side counterpart to Hate!

swz-patience.png

Wonder if this will be good on a Rey Finn build?

1 hour ago, dezzmont said:

It has a few things going for it as a card.

Firstly, unlike Snap Shot, the additional arc for strafing actually matters. No one really cares about the front arc coverage to get the cruddy bowtie, but side arc coverage at range 1 for knife fights can really make a big difference.

Second, TL only modification is worlds away better than an unmodified 2 dice attack. Vs a 2 dice unfocused defender you are looking at an 80% chance to deal damage, as opposed to a 50% chance.

The issue is, of course, it requires a TL, which means your trading your TL on your main attack... so modifying the attack vs most ships isn't a good idea as your trading around 1.1 damage for .3 damage vs an unfocused 2 dice defender. You can maybe do stuff with an R3 as well, as you can get a TL on a target for your primary and a target on your flank to try to hit with the turret. Seems questionable, but maybe if you already are holding a Target Synchronizer for some reason? I doubt a list of ships all rolling this to fire 'side saddle' with R3s and Synchs will make a ton of sense, but it is funny to imagine.

There is also mathy stuff with held focus actions.

The real winner with this upgrade is Lt. Bastian who can both set up the initial TL for free if an ally hits the target, and if they land a hit with this thing they can fire their follow up primary shot during the turn for free. As a bonus, their low initiative helps them out in actually catching people out.

It probably won't ever be great, especially if it ends up overpriced like with Snap Shot, but it has potential on one pilot at the very least as its a straight damage upgrade potentially on Bastian vs 2 and especially 1 dice defenders.

One weird thing is that despite the fact the benefit here is you may spend a TL to mod where you can't with a regular attack, this is generally a raw deal. Spending the TL first double tapping into a 2 dice focused defender only does an average expected damage of 1.7, while if you don't spend the lock you do 2.1, both because of the initial attack's damage and because your opponent may spend focus to avoid damage from the initial shot. A target locked attack at range 1 vs a 2 dice focus defender does 1.7 damage already on average, meaning using the main 'upside' to this vs Snap Shot completely removes any actual advantage from this upgrade in terms of damage output.

Still, vs a relatively common 'genre' of target, this thing is giving you .4 damage a turn if they land in your sights, which isn't nothing. Vs a 3 dice defender the value drops like a rock though. Only .2 damage, and while the value of not spending focus to reduce a damage on the first attack isn't as clear with 2 defense dice (Your probably only reducing damage by 1 on the follow up attack anyway, but maybe not, so it makes sense to spend the focus on the turret shot if you get the option and need to to reduce the damage), with 3 defense dice your target is much more likely to both have the focus for the follow up no matter what and know to just not spend it anyway. Vs a 1 dice defense target the thing completely chunks, at .6 bonus damage a turn, and with a focus, and Bastian is getting their TL back 90% of the time if they fire it on the first shot, meaning they are gaining a full damage a turn!

So this thing seems like a way to really put some pain on big base ships, especially for Bastian, rather than something you use to control aces. Considering the possibility of a meta shift towards that, its worth keeping an eye on unless its like... 8 points or something dumb which it probably will be.

Yeah my first thought seeing this this morning was Bastian with USB, R3 and TS, supporting others with USB. Depend on the points cost tho.. It seems harder to pull off, but like snap shot, we're also talking about an additional fire arc for the T-70's, being able to manoeuvre and not worry about front arc coverage is powerful.

Also with the overdrive thrusters and Temmin, this is a bit of a game changer. Focus - Red BR with a 2 straight seems crazy good in theory. Then Temmin can switch your S-foils back.

Still expecting a Resistance R2-D2 to come up. Poe flew with him so has to happen.

4 hours ago, Tyhar7 said:

Wonder if this will be good on a Rey Finn build?

Short answer: No.

I just did some preliminary dice calc experiments. A simple version is Rey/Finn with 1 force with full attack dice, vs 2 force with 1 fewer attack die. At Range 1 without a lock, there's a wicked tiny benefit to having 2 force with 3 reds, compared to 1 force with 4 reds (3.078 hits instead of 3), but every other situation is worse. If already have a Lock, it's far worse to use Patience. Rose isn't in the dice calc, so I've got no idea how that'd interact, but I can't imagine it'd come out in favor of Patience. Rose is basically Patience you get to see your attack roll before using, and that's a big difference.

I suppose if you had Rey with Leia instead of Rose & Korr or Slicer, you'd get X-1 dice with 1 force vs X dice with 0 force, if using Leia to reduce maneuvers. If you don't have a lock, it'll come out in favor of Patience, but the point of Leia I presume is to have more actions since you've reduced the difficulty of your maneuvers. Once you include the Lock, it's a lot better to have full dice and no force, than reduced dice and 1 force.

So there are some niche cases, but probably not enough to justify the points.

1 minute ago, theBitterFig said:

Short answer: No.

I just did some preliminary dice calc experiments. A simple version is Rey/Finn with 1 force with full attack dice, vs 2 force with 1 fewer attack die. At Range 1 without a lock, there's a wicked tiny benefit to having 2 force with 3 reds, compared to 1 force with 4 reds (3.078 hits instead of 3), but every other situation is worse. If already have a Lock, it's far worse to use Patience. Rose isn't in the dice calc, so I've got no idea how that'd interact, but I can't imagine it'd come out in favor of Patience. Rose is basically Patience you get to see your attack roll before using, and that's a big difference.

I suppose if you had Rey with Leia instead of Rose & Korr or Slicer, you'd get X-1 dice with 1 force vs X dice with 0 force, if using Leia to reduce maneuvers. If you don't have a lock, it'll come out in favor of Patience, but the point of Leia I presume is to have more actions since you've reduced the difficulty of your maneuvers. Once you include the Lock, it's a lot better to have full dice and no force, than reduced dice and 1 force.

So there are some niche cases, but probably not enough to justify the points.

I guess you were just seeing the offensive potential but I was also considering the defensive side of the things. Dropping one offensive dice to trade back some potential defence dice maybe worth while no?

3 minutes ago, Tyhar7 said:

I guess you were just seeing the offensive potential but I was also considering the defensive side of the things. Dropping one offensive dice to trade back some potential defence dice maybe worth while no?

I'd started saying something about the use of Rey in tactics, then deleted it once I started considering how the offense interactions might work. :P :D

But the situations are tricky. Rey will almost always start the fight with 2 force, since she doesn't spend it during activation like a Jedi, so there's no opening-round benefit where maybe you don't have a lock and just want to protect against range 3 potshots. Once into the midgame, when she might be down on force, it just feels kind of... antithetical to why folks fly Rey? She's there to nuke the **** out of stuff. Losing a hit to gain an evade doesn't seem like good strategy for Rey. If that's how you want to fly, go for it, but I'm skeptical.

Edited by theBitterFig
9 minutes ago, theBitterFig said:

I'd started saying something about the use of Rey in tactics, then deleted it once I started considering how the offense interactions might work. :P :D

But the situations are tricky. Rey will almost always start the fight with 2 force, since she doesn't spend it during activation like a Jedi. Once into the midgame, when she might be down on force, it just feels kind of... antithetical to why folks fly Rey? She's there to nuke the **** out of stuff. Losing a hit to gain an evade doesn't seem like good strategy for Rey. If that's how you want to fly, go for it, but I'm skeptical.

My experience with Rey is she tends to burn down quite fast in the Mid-game when she's force starved. She's got plenty of offensive options with Rose and Finn crew but once she's out of force the 1 dice defence starts to hurt a bit. No previous force ability really fits well with her, sense maybe, but generally I'm considering that mid-game situation when you're facing a few more shots than your comfortable with and would like some additional force to compensate. As we know her offence isn't lacking, so losing one dice might be worth doing if you're looking at that kind of situation. It's not something I'd probably use round to round. Is that worth it... depends on the points I guess.

Edited by Tyhar7

I guess. It'll just never be significantly better than 1 to 1--1 Hit lost, 1 Evade gained. I guess we each have to decide whether we spend points to have that option.

13 minutes ago, Tyhar7 said:

No previous force ability really fits well with her

Heightened Perception. Hop to Init 7 in the 2nd round of combat to killshot an Init 5 or 6 ace before they can attack. Not an every-game ability, let alone every-turn, but those times when you can use it, it can be game-winning.

Patience seems best on 2 die primaries. If you don't have range one or bullseye, it might be worth it to deplete your attack to get some force back. Regen Jedi would be fine getting a deplete when they already have a disarm.

29 minutes ago, 5050Saint said:

Patience seems best on 2 die primaries. If you don't have range one or bullseye, it might be worth it to deplete your attack to get some force back. Regen Jedi would be fine getting a deplete when they already have a disarm.

How often will a Regen Jedi who is regen'ing that turn have/want an enemy ship in it's arc though?

I mostly think of Patience as made for Plo Koon. Dude loves to be shifting tokens around, which can get force-expensive, but can be really impactful on the overall game state. Sling an Evade or Focus to someone who's got a good shot, or is in a bad place, and regain that force.

5 minutes ago, InterceptorMad said:

How often will a Regen Jedi who is regen'ing that turn have/want an enemy ship in it's arc though?

Plo would be a great example of this, too. Maybe Anakin uses his R2 Astro to regen, not knowing whether he or Plo will have the better shot in the end. If Anakin's got the good shot, Plo takes it and uses Patience. If Anakin has the worse shot, maybe Plo doesn't steal the token, and Anakin uses his own patience.

If ever I dig out triple CLT aces again, Plo will have this stapled to him, and it might go on other pilots, too.

3 hours ago, theBitterFig said:

It'll just never be significantly better than 1 to 1--1 Hit lost, 1 Evade gained. I guess we each have to decide whether we spend points to have that option.

But how many times do you have a shot that you know won't land? A CLT without Bullseye against a focused 3agi ship, for example? Eta-2 will have the same basic attack profile too; without bullseye its attacks can be wimpy.

It's almost always better to get one double-modded 3-dice attack than two single-modded 2-dice attacks. And then translate that into defensive flexibility and force upgrade procs too, and I really feel like it adds up.

Of course, we'll have to see how the devs feel about it. Their intuitions often seem... way off (e.g. Brilliant Evasion, Predictive Shot, etc.) so we shouldn't hope for too much right out the gate.

10 hours ago, Hiemfire said:

"An object is at range 0 of an obstacle or device if it is physically on top of it."

Welp, I was wrong. Guess that's what I get for the condescending tone. Sorry about that. 😕

Edited by ClassicalMoser
29 minutes ago, ClassicalMoser said:

But how many times do you have a shot that you know won't land? A CLT without Bullseye against a focused 3agi ship, for example? Eta-2 will have the same basic attack profile too; without bullseye its attacks can be wimpy.

It's almost always better to get one double-modded 3-dice attack than two single-modded 2-dice attacks. And then translate that into defensive flexibility and force upgrade procs too, and I really feel like it adds up.

Of course, we'll have to see how the devs feel about it. Their intuitions often seem... way off (e.g. Brilliant Evasion, Predictive Shot, etc.) so we shouldn't hope for too much right out the gate.

Sure, but I was saying that in the context of Ray.

Looks like Hondo in a Republic ARC with C1-10P (erratic side) can allow jamming two enemies in a single turn.

2 minutes ago, Synel said:

Looks like Hondo in a Republic ARC with C1-10P (erratic side) can allow jamming two enemies in a single turn.

Yep.

1 hour ago, Synel said:

Looks like Hondo in a Republic ARC with C1-10P (erratic side) can allow jamming two enemies in a single turn.

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