18 minutes ago, BlueSquadronPilot said:

Do we know whether the clones will have Phase 1 head options, or will I need to purchase 2 boxes to convert?

They show 1 built with a Phase I helmet. I am assuming there are enough head options to build all them with Phase I, II, or no helmet, but so far that is not confirmed. We might find out on Saturday.

I pleased that the Republic and Separatists will be getting Specialists personnel. I know that Separatist players were desperate for a cheap commander. I'm surprised though the Droid Commander is a Tactical Droid instead of a Super Tactical Droid. I wonder if that means the Separatists will get General Kalani in a Commander expansion in the future.

Also, I wonder if the Separatists' "medical droid" equivalent (I think it's the EV-series droid with the buzzsaw hands) can only heal organic units, like Dooku and Cad Bane? Or can it only repair droids? Or both? And can the "astromech" equivalent repair both vehicles and droids? Or only vehicles?

7 minutes ago, Revan Reborn said:

Also, I wonder if the Separatists' "medical droid" equivalent (I think it's the EV-series droid with the buzzsaw hands) can only heal organic units, like Dooku and Cad Bane? Or can it only repair droids? Or both? And can the "astromech" equivalent repair both vehicles and droids? Or only vehicles?

The medical droid will have Treat, which works on only non-droid troopers, and the repair droid will have Repair, which works on vehicles and droid troopers. No reason to make it more complicated than that.

12 hours ago, Tirion said:

His is this any different than waiting until right before release. It will feel fresh then too. It only loses its freshness when you spoil the stats 3-6 months in advance. Now compare that to the upcoming sf releases and those will only have 4-6 weeks. Keep in mind we weren't supposed to have any arc stats until a couple weeks ago if it wasn't for an asmodee error.

I heavily prefer this compared to knowing a unit for 6 months then it gets here and no one cares

Why would we stop caring?

They're already taking ages to bring stuff out.

They're spoiling the release of stuff ages in advance.

They lose nothing by letting us playtest something early. And everything in clonewars era feels stale because there are so few options.

If we had have been able to playtest the at-st and t-47 early, they would have known they were over-costed for what they do.

Barcs needed more playtesting. Phase 1's aren't that great compared to Phase 2's. B2 Battle droids are a little underwhelming.

A lot of these issues could have been ironed out with the help of the community AND we would have still bought them on release.

My friends and I were proxying the arcs and commando droids months in advance and we love them. We're even more hyped for the actual release of them, because we already have a feel for how they work. So keen to have the actual models.

53 minutes ago, lologrelol said:

Why would we stop caring?

They're already taking ages to bring stuff out.

They're spoiling the release of stuff ages in advance.

They lose nothing by letting us playtest something early. And everything in clonewars era feels stale because there are so few options.

If we had have been able to playtest the at-st and t-47 early, they would have known they were over-costed for what they do.

Barcs needed more playtesting. Phase 1's aren't that great compared to Phase 2's. B2 Battle droids are a little underwhelming.

A lot of these issues could have been ironed out with the help of the community AND we would have still bought them on release.

My friends and I were proxying the arcs and commando droids months in advance and we love them. We're even more hyped for the actual release of them, because we already have a feel for how they work. So keen to have the actual models.

That's the thing the aren't spoiling anything now until about a month before release.

How were you proxying bx droids?

The sniper and main unit card were spoiled a few months in advance.

7 hours ago, lologrelol said:

They lose nothing by letting us playtest something early.

A hypothetical: Someone wants to try running 6 repair droids in their CIS army. They are therefore planning on buying 6 specialist boxes. But since they won't be out for a while and the cards have been spoiled, they start proxying them in games. In doing so they find out that running 6 isn't actually as good as they hoped, and they're probably better off just running 2. So when the specialist pack is released they only buy 2 boxes instead of the 6 they had originally planned.

FFG has lost money in this example. If something is good, it will eventually sell as people find that out. But if something isn't as good as someone was expecting (not even bad, just not as good), then there is a real possibility of that hurting sales.

7 hours ago, lologrelol said:

If we had have been able to playtest the at-st and t-47 early, they would have known they were over-costed for what they do.

Which would have hurt sales, and not changed anything about the units. The stats for all units are finalized way before we see them. Also, as others have pointed out, FFG only looks at tournament data when evaluating balance changes that need to be made, and you can'r bring unreleased units to a tournament.

5 minutes ago, Lochlan said:

A hypothetical: Someone wants to try running 6 repair droids in their CIS army. They are therefore planning on buying 6 specialist boxes. But since they won't be out for a while and the cards have been spoiled, they start proxying them in games. In doing so they find out that running 6 isn't actually as good as they hoped, and they're probably better off just running 2. So when the specialist pack is released they only buy 2 boxes instead of the 6 they had originally planned.

FFG has lost money in this example. If something is good, it will eventually sell as people find that out. But if something isn't as good as someone was expecting (not even bad, just not as good), then there is a real possibility of that hurting sales.

Which would have hurt sales, and not changed anything about the units. The stats for all units are finalized way before we see them. Also, as others have pointed out, FFG only looks at tournament data when evaluating balance changes that need to be made, and you can'r bring unreleased units to a tournament.

Counter point to the lost sales: new stuff pretty much sells out anyway so they are selling as much as they can print at the moment .

1 minute ago, Lukez said:

Counter point to the lost sales: new stuff pretty much sells out anyway so they are selling as much as they can print at the moment .

This. I must have missed the large number of comments lately about the over abundance of phase 2 and b2 around that explains why no one wants more of them.

3 minutes ago, KarlVonCarstein said:

This. I must have missed the large number of comments lately about the over abundance of phase 2 and b2 around that explains why no one wants more of them.

Literally nobody is saying that? Nobody is saying, "previewing a unit means nobody will buy it." Some of us are simply providing a counterpoint to "FFG loses nothing by spoiling stats early."

7 hours ago, lologrelol said:

They lose nothing by letting us playtest something early. And everything in clonewars era feels stale because there are so few options.

If we had have been able to playtest the at-st and t-47 early, they would have known they were over-costed for what they do.

Barcs needed more playtesting. Phase 1's aren't that great compared to Phase 2's. B2 Battle droids are a little underwhelming.

A lot of these issues could have been ironed out with the help of the community AND we would have still bought them on release.

My friends and I were proxying the arcs and commando droids months in advance and we love them. We're even more hyped for the actual release of them, because we already have a feel for how they work. So keen to have the actual models.

Firstly, I don't know of ANY miniatures company that has completely open playtests. For one thing, the logistics of handling all the input is insane, for another it leads to tables that have a bunch of proxies representing their game. A casual observer is less likely to pick up a game when they find out that most of the models on the board aren't related to the actual units being represented.

Secondly, playtesting is usually done FAR in advance of production (a year or more), easily before any sculpts are completed. So by the time they show it to us, production is either well under way or complete, since they don't show 3-ups or early test prints. Showing the rules BEFORE having the model ready (especially when there is a chance the model design is rejected by the license holder, requiring a complete redesign) allows for third parties to beat you to market with models (or even just digital files these days) representing the unit.

There was literally no opportunity for people to playtest the T-47 and AT-ST outside of FFG. Even if they had, one of the limitations was the scarcity of keywords, and trying to avoid adding a bunch of new keywords to the game right away. I've heard that the AT-RT if designed today would be a very different model, with Armour X in place of Armour at a minimum. As well, the units are trying to be balanced not just against what HAS been released but what WILL be released, and not just what the community at large has determined is the best. The game played by playtesters is probably significantly different from Legion as we know it, as they playtest future versions of the RRG, unreleased units, modified points costs, etc.
Rebel troopers "aren't that great" compared to Rebel Veterans, and Fleet troopers are also "underwhelming," so what's your point? That doesn't mean the units aren't "balanced" in a greater sense. Phase 1s still see quite a bit of play in competitive lists as a cheaper Corps filler and token generator.

If all you are excited about is having actual models, then with a resin printer, the right files, and a couple hours, you can have models that are very clearly the unit you want, at a similar level to detail to the plastics. For casual play the cards are not required at all, as you have already demonstrated.

Also, let's say that not just the ARCS and BX droids were spoiled, but the next few releases for Clone Wars. If some future unit is even better in the Special Forces slot, they why buy the ARC troopers that you know will be supplanted in relatively short order?

2 minutes ago, Caimheul1313 said:

I've heard that the AT-RT if designed today would be a very different model, with Armour X in place of Armour at a minimum.

The clone AT-RT is still full armor...

1 minute ago, Mokoshkana said:

The clone AT-RT is still full armor...

Yes, because it is a copy of the original one. If they were going to change the Clone AT-RT, then how much outcry would there be about it being WORSE?

3 hours ago, lologrelol said:

The sniper and main unit card were spoiled a few months in advance.

The ARCs were by accident by asmodee not ffg. I don't think the main card was the BX droids just the sniper, I could be wrong about that.

47 minutes ago, Mokoshkana said:

The clone AT-RT is still full armor...

yes or at the very least weak point sides and rear.

47 minutes ago, Tirion said:

The ARCs were by accident by asmodee not ffg. I don't think the main card was the BX droids just the sniper, I could be wrong about that.

The main unit card for BX got completely spoiled in French (?) in March-april

1 hour ago, Caimheul1313 said:

Yes, because it is a copy of the original one. If they were going to change the Clone AT-RT, then how much outcry would there be about it being WORSE?

Armor 1/2 with Red Defense Die. This gives it better defense overall without the full benefit of armor. The reasoning would be simple, the Rebels reinforces the AT-RT's armor structure. But that's really irrelevant. Rumors are rumors.

1 hour ago, Caimheul1313 said:

There was literally no opportunity for people to playtest the T-47 and AT-ST outside of FFG. Even if they had, one of the limitations was the scarcity of keywords, and trying to avoid adding a bunch of new keywords to the game right away. I've heard that the AT-RT if designed today would be a very different model, with Armour X in place of Armour at a minimum. As well, the units are trying to be balanced not just against what HAS been released but what WILL be released, and not just what the community at large has determined is the best. The game played by playtesters is probably significantly different from Legion as we know it, as they playtest future versions of the RRG, unreleased units, modified points costs, etc.

10 hours ago, lologrelol said:

If we had have been able to playtest the at-st and t-47 early, they would have known they were over-costed for what they do.

Barcs needed more playtesting. Phase 1's aren't that great compared to Phase 2's. B2 Battle droids are a little underwhelming.

I still wonder about that with regards to power creep. the meta, and play testing. FFG seems to have a lot of.....issues? Just makes me wonder if they should try to change the way they test out units just a bit since it feels like a lot problems keep getting passed. And maybe a lot of broken stuff getting past would be fine if I had more faith in FFG points change to keep everything in balance.

And here I am complete guessing here and I hope to be wrong about all of this, but I still believe that FFG hated that they had to change anything. The weird online PDF and waiting so long to make the changes just feels like FFG screwed up so bad that it forced their hands on something that was never planned. So FFG did it halfway and now everyone is annoyed. People who like the changes are not happy it takes a whole year and people who never wanted changes dislike it as well. Now maybe they will forget they said that all future point changes would be minor and I am worrying about nothing, but man that power creep. They have so many Rebel and Empire units that need help now. GAR alone has the poor BARC that needs some love and P2s destroying everything in sight. Will be very interesting to see what happens in the next month or so.

And maybe this would not be so painful if not for of X-wing being right there as a comparison as the correct way to do minor changes and releases!!!

side rant here: I will never know how anybody allowed that T-47 out of beta in that shape? AT-ST? Ya sure it was not great, BUT at least fun. That airspeeder was an abomination and three games would have shown it melted to a stiff breeze!!!! Somebody should have been fired for that mistake!!!!! Could not even use it as a paperweight because of compulsory!!

33 minutes ago, Mokoshkana said:

Armor 1/2 with Red Defense Die. This gives it better defense overall without the full benefit of armor. The reasoning would be simple, the Rebels reinforces the AT-RT's armor structure. But that's really irrelevant. Rumors are rumors.

Not a terrible idea, but the actual model doesn't hold up to that, seeing as the AT-RT portions are exactly the same (from what I've seen so far of the images at least). The red die could be tied to the drivers armour, but the vehicle itself being more resilient to weapons without a visual change is a bit harder to buy. Regardless, Armour 1/2 with a red die is significantly worse than Armour with white in my opinion. Not having to roll at all is significantly better than having to roll against slightly fewer hits. To me it makes more sense for the Armour to be better on the Republic version, due to regular, well-funded maintenance, and not having spent years mothballed in a stockpile, or cobbled together from various half working AT-RTs found in junkpiles.

I do agree rumour is rumour, especially on the internet. The person I heard it from got it directly from Alex Davy at one of the big tournaments (and I have no reason to doubt them), but I'm just some random person on the internet, so I agree skepticism is warranted. But the Republic AT-RT remaining unchanged in defenses doesn't really speak one way or the other.

Remaining unchanged in a theoretical Legion 2.0 would be a different matter though.

There is a Legion specific twitch stream at 1600 CDT on Saturday. Perhaps they'll reveal more upcoming releases then.

11 minutes ago, T70 Driver said:

There is a Legion specific twitch stream at 1600 CDT on Saturday. Perhaps they'll reveal more upcoming releases then.

I think it was implied they would just be looking at the models in more detail. Unless one of the other streams revealed more product than initially presented.

17 minutes ago, T70 Driver said:

There is a Legion specific twitch stream at 1600 CDT on Saturday. Perhaps they'll reveal more upcoming releases then.

5 minutes ago, Caimheul1313 said:

I think it was implied they would just be looking at the models in more detail. Unless one of the other streams revealed more product than initially presented.

The way they were talking about the releases in the IFR suggested there wouldn't be any more announcements, and that Anakin and Maul would be the only things other than what had previously been announced to come out this year (with the specialist packs in January).

2 minutes ago, Lochlan said:

The way they were talking about the releases in the IFR suggested there wouldn't be any more announcements, and that Anakin and Maul would be the only things other than what had previously been announced to come out this year (with the specialist packs in January).

Yeah, that was my impression as well. So unless one of the presentations before the Legion one reveals something not initially talked about (like the stinger from the In Flight about their new Decent game), I wouldn't expect it for Legion.

Not sure if it's been posted here or not, but : https://store.us.asmodee.com/catalogue/sw-legion-darth-maul-and-sith-probe-dorids-operative_3051/

The interesting part

Quote

This expansion contains one finely sculpted Darth Maul miniature that can be assembled in three different poses, along with three Sith Probe Droid miniatures, enough for one operative unit and one special forces unit.

26 minutes ago, Patrick EWing said:

Not sure if it's been posted here or not, but : https://store.us.asmodee.com/catalogue/sw-legion-darth-maul-and-sith-probe-dorids-operative_3051/

The interesting part

"eight upgrade cards that explore his connection to the dark side of the Force" <<That's the interesting part to me. There are only six shown in the spread. And the description makes it sounds like most of them are Force upgrades, though I'm sure there will be at least one Comms upgrade for the droids.