12 minutes ago, bumbleb1492 said:Really hopeful for the cheap clone commander and maybe a command card that can help out the saber tank as it's one of my favorite units to run.
That would fit the style seen in the gcw specialists, there’s a card for heavy and support units, another for spec forces and operatives, and a three pip for corps units in both sets
I wouldn't mind the long release times that much, IF we got all the stat and command cards of a new unit when it's announced.
Then we can play with those and have fun with something that feels fresh.
FFG doesn't lose anything, because everyone is going to buy their stuff anyway.
4 hours ago, lologrelol said:I want to see stats. I'd like cards and stuff spoiled. This lets me playtest and get some experience before I get stuff.
And I want all of it.
Cant you playtest it the month before it comes out?
So Covid has made predicting trends for 2020 hard, but the one a lot of people were making was that FFG would try to reduce the length of the spoiler -> Reveal -> Release window. By and large they have managed this, but the GenCon IFR is such a huge part of their annual marketing strategy, that was always going to be tough.
We need to remember, what works for tabletop mini games with frequent releases doesn't work so well for board games with very limited releases - and FFG, bless 'em, are trying to market both using the same events.
My take is we shouldn't be too worried about the paucity of Legion spoilers in the IFR. There were much bigger releases to focus on - CW Armada - so we're just not getting the spotlight on Legion this time round. And unless there's a big reveal (e.g. Sequel era starter set?), nor should we expect it in future.
I don't mind the long lead times from announcements to releases much, let alone the months between releases.
What I do mind is that they can't keep existing products in stock. I'm frankly starting to doubt that I'll get literally any (Clone Wars) Legion stuff at all delivered this year. And I haven't even ordered yet anything from Phase IIs and B2s onward as I didn't want to risk getting those before the core set!
Anyway, I love the sculpts for Anakin and Maul, but to be honest, multiple poses for unique characters seems a bit indulgent. Poor Phase II troopers.
2 hours ago, Tirion said:Cant you playtest it the month before it comes out?
No, because there's no guarantee that I'll be able to get it when it does actually come out.
Almost anything worth getting is out of stock right now. I still can't get Phase 2's in my country atm.
Also, if I'm excited now, I want to engage and try out playtesting now. In 5 months time I'll have lost a lot of this enthusiasm for the respective release.
Clone wars are getting stale. There's only so many releases available right now, so some variety right now would be very appreciated.
36 minutes ago, lologrelol said:No, because there's no guarantee that I'll be able to get it when it does actually come out.
Almost anything worth getting is out of stock right now. I still can't get Phase 2's in my country atm.
Also, if I'm excited now, I want to engage and try out playtesting now. In 5 months time I'll have lost a lot of this enthusiasm for the respective release.
Clone wars are getting stale. There's only so many releases available right now, so some variety right now would be very appreciated.
Which is why they shouldn't announce the stuff at all until very shortly before release. Giving us the cards now is a TERRIBLE business plan, because as you point out, there is plenty of time it proxy (or 3D print) the models and run the rules, running the risk of people figuring out the "meta" with the new unit, or determining that the new unit isn't any good, which would (likely) lead to fewer sales. (EDIT: what wouldn't be a bad idea though are some more, different, and free play modes.)
It is far better to release the models unexpectedly, with little lead time so people order while they are excited by the announcement of something new. Something that FFG has never really done, the shortest lead times I can find are 3 months, with the average somewhere between 4-5 months. This is according to the Announcement/Release dates listings for all Legion products on https://starwarslegion.fandom.com/wiki/Star_Wars:_Legion_Wiki .
Edited by Caimheul131347 minutes ago, lologrelol said:No, because there's no guarantee that I'll be able to get it when it does actually come out.
Almost anything worth getting is out of stock right now. I still can't get Phase 2's in my country atm.
Also, if I'm excited now, I want to engage and try out playtesting now. In 5 months time I'll have lost a lot of this enthusiasm for the respective release.
Clone wars are getting stale. There's only so many releases available right now, so some variety right now would be very appreciated.
To be fair, you can’t get phase 2s in America either.
The only clone wars content you can find here is the individual boxes of stuff from the core set; and for the moment the newest heroes released.
1 hour ago, Caimheul1313 said:Which is why they shouldn't announce the stuff at all until very shortly before release. Giving us the cards now is a TERRIBLE business plan, because as you point out, there is plenty of time it proxy (or 3D print) the models and run the rules, running the risk of people figuring out the "meta" with the new unit, or determining that the new unit isn't any good, which would (likely) lead to fewer sales. (EDIT: what wouldn't be a bad idea though are some more, different, and free play modes.)
It is far better to release the models unexpectedly, with little lead time so people order while they are excited by the announcement of something new. Something that FFG has never really done, the shortest lead times I can find are 3 months, with the average somewhere between 4-5 months. This is according to the Announcement/Release dates listings for all Legion products on https://starwarslegion.fandom.com/wiki/Star_Wars:_Legion_Wiki .
Just because a handful of people may make **** 3D proxies and print out the cards/tokens doesn't mean FFG will see a significant drop in sales.
If people pre-play the new units and realize they suck that's the designer's fault. This would hurt the game in the long run anyway, as people will eventually realize certain units aren't optimized or aren't costed appropriately.
About 1-2 months before release would be best I agree. GW does something like this, where they reveal shortly before release. Unfortunately that's not what we've got.
The loyal fanbase, the fanbase that will actually make FFG their profit, will buy the stuff even if they get to playtest it early. IN FACT, this may even let us as a community work out some kinks in the design.
The way FFG has set up the structure of the purchases in this game, makes it less likely it will be copied, because people need the cards, minis, and tokens in each box. Copying and printing that much stuff is just a pain in the ***. But proxying it with pre-existing stuff will promote early interest and continued interest in the product. That's why I've never liked FFG hiding their cards in the previews.
My 2c anyway.
Something I haven't seen anyone mention yet: the Sith Probe Droids are not counterparts. They're Special Forces . See the attached image. Not only is the unit image in the top right of the card (Counterparts have the image in the top left), but you can clearly make out the Special Forces icon to the left of the unit image.
17 minutes ago, Lochlan said:Something I haven't seen anyone mention yet: the Sith Probe Droids are not counterparts. They're Special Forces . See the attached image. Not only is the unit image in the top right of the card (Counterparts have the image in the top left), but you can clearly make out the Special Forces icon to the left of the unit image.
Looks like CIS is getting its first Entourage unit
Just now, Mokoshkana said:Looks like CIS is getting its first Entourage unit
Not necessarily, though that would be interesting. I am actually thinking it will a Detachment unit, but I suppose it could be both?
10 minutes ago, Lochlan said:Not necessarily, though that would be interesting. I am actually thinking it will a Detachment unit, but I suppose it could be both?
I like that idea. I also like the idea of giving them Infiltrate. I'm not sure how it would work with Detachment. Maybe a command card with Divulge that makes them lose Detachment and gain Infiltrate?
1 minute ago, arnoldrew said:I like that idea. I also like the idea of giving them Infiltrate. I'm not sure how it would work with Detachment. Maybe a command card with Divulge that makes them lose Detachment and gain Infiltrate?
That would work. Or they could come up with a new keyword that works like detachment but without the deployment restrictions.
41 minutes ago, Lochlan said:Something I haven't seen anyone mention yet: the Sith Probe Droids are not counterparts. They're Special Forces . See the attached image. Not only is the unit image in the top right of the card (Counterparts have the image in the top left), but you can clearly make out the Special Forces icon to the left of the unit image.
Probs detachment then
Some more stuff I have gleaned:
Maul comes with a slew of Force cards—at least 3 (one facedown, plus Force Choke and Fear), likely 5 (the first two faceup cards are also in Anakin's spread and are probably new Force cards). He also has one other facedown upgrade, which I would guess is a gear card. Maybe comms for the probe droids?
I can't tell what any of the cards in Anakin's spread are. In addition to the two faceup cards that are duplicated in Maul's spread, he has two other cards that appear to be new. No idea what they might be.
1 hour ago, lologrelol said:Just because a handful of people may make **** 3D proxies and print out the cards/tokens doesn't mean FFG will see a significant drop in sales.
If people pre-play the new units and realize they suck that's the designer's fault. This would hurt the game in the long run anyway, as people will eventually realize certain units aren't optimized or aren't costed appropriately.
About 1-2 months before release would be best I agree. GW does something like this, where they reveal shortly before release. Unfortunately that's not what we've got.
The loyal fanbase, the fanbase that will actually make FFG their profit, will buy the stuff even if they get to playtest it early. IN FACT, this may even let us as a community work out some kinks in the design.
The way FFG has set up the structure of the purchases in this game, makes it less likely it will be copied, because people need the cards, minis, and tokens in each box. Copying and printing that much stuff is just a pain in the ***. But proxying it with pre-existing stuff will promote early interest and continued interest in the product. That's why I've never liked FFG hiding their cards in the previews.
My 2c anyway.
Early interest too early doesn't help. Also FFG has never really taken input from the wider player base, choosing instead to have a smaller playtest group including many players who made it to Worlds in the first year, and "analyzing tournament data." There's been at least a couple times where I have pointed out problems with RAW via the email questions, been told it would be addressed "soon," and no FAQ in the forum, or RRG update for months. And I mean like"Counterpart means Repair can't bring back C3-P0" type of issues, where the intent isn't completely clear.
If the airspeeder had been played with by the community prior to release, then I highly doubt as many of them would have sold initially, regardless of "collectors," same goes for the AT-ST in many ways. Collectors buy only what interests them, often in lower quantities, it's the competitive meta chasers that buy multiples of the "new hotness" that really keep a game profitable. Especially if they aren't charging for new rules every few months like some other companies. Edit: essentially, short term sales are really what keep a game going, selling lots of a new product, not continuing to move older product that already paid for the R&D costs.
Quite a few people are playing mostly on TTS these days, so you only "need" the cards for the official tournaments, not even casual play. People will buy 3D printed models regardless, to get the alternate poses they want, or to represent a different character, my point was people have lots of ways of proxying the models these days, so they can play with them before the unit is released to determine if it matches their playstyle. If they are just a collector and they don't want to play competitively (and don't like the sculpt) then that's a lost sale. For character models that can only be fielded singly anyway, that can be significant as opposed to say Corps units.
Whether or not a unit is "good" has a different meaning between playtesters and competitive players. Competitive players typically want units that grant advantages, playtesters are (generally) more concerned with balance. I don't know how FFG does things, but from what I've seen elsewhere, it is frequently a "Here are the new units you need to test, here is the list you run them in/against, fill out this questionnaire/give us feedback," so they aren't seeing the full interactions possible anyway, which is how broken combinations are often missed in various games.
Playtesting also generally takes place over a year in advance of release, 6 months isn't really enough time to change an entire print run that is likely already done and on shipping pallets. Look how long of a delay Dewbacks had due to the wrong bases, it would be at least as long to change all the cards.
Edited by Caimheul1313Cool cool.. so questions:
Is Anakin's robes black or a really dark brown? I'm looking forward to painting him like ROTS and I want to find the best color match for his robes. The example in the video looks perfect.
Anyone have ideas how to paint the Clone Commander's hologram to look like a hologram? I'm for sure using that pose.
What are the chances they announce more stuff on Aug 1st. I don't see any releases in Oct or Dec so perhaps that is Empire/Rebels? What do you think?
5 minutes ago, ewardell said:Cool cool.. so questions:
Is Anakin's robes black or a really dark brown? I'm looking forward to painting him like ROTS and I want to find the best color match for his robes. The example in the video looks perfect.
Anyone have ideas how to paint the Clone Commander's hologram to look like a hologram? I'm for sure using that pose.
What are the chances they announce more stuff on Aug 1st. I don't see any releases in Oct or Dec so perhaps that is Empire/Rebels? What do you think?
Maybe they are re-printing stuff so they can't get any new product those months?
I'm hoping for re-prints soon of B2s, Phase II, Saber Tank and Phase I upgrade pack as I couldn't get any of those yet, and the few ones I see are extremely overpriced.
Edited by Lemmiwinks864 hours ago, lologrelol said:No, because there's no guarantee that I'll be able to get it when it does actually come out.
Almost anything worth getting is out of stock right now. I still can't get Phase 2's in my country atm.
Also, if I'm excited now, I want to engage and try out playtesting now. In 5 months time I'll have lost a lot of this enthusiasm for the respective release.
Clone wars are getting stale. There's only so many releases available right now, so some variety right now would be very appreciated.
The loss of hype is why I'm happy they aren't spoiling anything. All we know right now are sculpts. So there isn't this long wait in actually knowing what the piece is before we get it. We already knew this stuff existed/was a no brainer so all they have is today was the sculpts. If you can't get new stuff anyways what she's it matter if you get the stats now or later
7 hours ago, lologrelol said:I wouldn't mind the long release times that much, IF we got all the stat and command cards of a new unit when it's announced.
Then we can play with those and have fun with something that feels fresh.
FFG doesn't lose anything, because everyone is going to buy their stuff anyway.
His is this any different than waiting until right before release. It will feel fresh then too. It only loses its freshness when you spoil the stats 3-6 months in advance. Now compare that to the upcoming sf releases and those will only have 4-6 weeks. Keep in mind we weren't supposed to have any arc stats until a couple weeks ago if it wasn't for an asmodee error.
I heavily prefer this compared to knowing a unit for 6 months then it gets here and no one cares
23 minutes ago, Tirion said:I heavily prefer this compared to knowing a unit for 6 months then it gets here and no one cares
Agreed. I'll buy what I like regardless of stats. The only exception is when it's a named character I'm not familiar with. In that case I'll base the buy on if I like the model or if it does something that I like.
26 minutes ago, ewardell said:Is Anakin's robes black or a really dark brown? I'm looking forward to painting him like ROTS and I want to find the best color match for his robes. The example in the video looks perfect.
Roughly middle brown pants. Very dark brown "tunic". Black leather "vest" and boots. (For this RotS/late Clone Wars outfit. The specific browns differ wildly between sources, though.) So as far as the official paint job goes, the pants are too dark and the boots are too light.
17 minutes ago, ewardell said:Anyone have ideas how to paint the Clone Commander's hologram to look like a hologram? I'm for sure using that pose.
blue glaze over white
Do we know whether the clones will have Phase 1 head options, or will I need to purchase 2 boxes to convert?
Edited by BlueSquadronPilot17 minutes ago, BlueSquadronPilot said:Do we know whether the clones will have Phase 1 head options, or will I need to purchase 2 boxes to convert?
A phase 2 helmet and phase 1 helmet was shown for the engineer clone so I would assume that they will all have this option.