8 hours ago, theBitterFig said:

Could borrow the HMP ship ability or something like it. Networked Aim, I squint. You can't spend a lock you have on the target, but can reroll 1 die per friendly lock on that ship. There might be some range or such restrictions, but that might work. There's a decent number of Impeiral ships who love to take-and-hold locks, like the x1 or v1 or Gunboat. Combos well with Jendon or Tarkin.

That feels kind of right, thematically... the Drone TIE thematically might just chase down and shoot whatever the other ships in the squad are telling it to shoot. Not fully independent, they just follow the leader.

As a filler, two or three of these would be punchy little droids, and they'd love to work along side Vader and Fifth Brother. However, you couldn't really do a full squad of them, since then they'd just be worse TIEs.

I want to keep the same statline as the classic TIE, though, only swap the 2 hards/banks on the dial, and maybe keep the actions (except focus).

That's pretty cool!

I would add 1 hull to the little bugger (they are more armoured than the TIE/ln). No focus, but calculation, of course. And red target lock?

On 8/5/2020 at 6:22 PM, Hiemfire said:

Yep. Probably going to be expensive because of that.

Could be a different cost for each faction

14 hours ago, theBitterFig said:

Could borrow the HMP ship ability or something like it. Networked Aim, I squint. You can't spend a lock you have on the target, but can reroll 1 die per friendly lock on that ship. There might be some range or such restrictions, but that might work. There's a decent number of Impeiral ships who love to take-and-hold locks, like the x1 or v1 or Gunboat. Combos well with Jendon or Tarkin.

That feels kind of right, thematically... the Drone TIE thematically might just chase down and shoot whatever the other ships in the squad are telling it to shoot. Not fully independent, they just follow the leader.

As a filler, two or three of these would be punchy little droids, and they'd love to work along side Vader and Fifth Brother. However, you couldn't really do a full squad of them, since then they'd just be worse TIEs.

I want to keep the same statline as the classic TIE, though, only swap the 2 hards/banks on the dial, and maybe keep the actions (except focus).

5 hours ago, Odanan said:

That's pretty cool!

I would add 1 hull to the little bugger (they are more armoured than the TIE/ln). No focus, but calculation, of course. And red target lock?

I like these ideas or something close to them for the "auto-fighters" (the only thing they've technically been called in canon so far). I'm not sure it should be exactly the same as the HMP but along the same lines certainly works. Maybe only get to reroll one die regardless of number of locks? Or maybe a slightly different effect, like adding a hit result?

Red lock is a nice touch to limit attractiveness of swarms vs soup. I wonder if Redline could make a decent "commander" for these as you've described them?

I'm also guessing CIS are unlikely to get a ship with an astromech slot due to R3, or would that even be that good?

24 minutes ago, CaptainJaguarShark said:

I'm also guessing CIS are unlikely to get a ship with an astromech slot due to R3, or would that even be that good?

Did the CIS use astromech capable fighters that we're aware of? I know it is possible (barring a Republic bogart of the capability somehow) but I don't recall the CIS actually doing so.

1 hour ago, Hiemfire said:

Did the CIS use astromech capable fighters that we're aware of? I know it is possible (barring a Republic bogart of the capability somehow) but I don't recall the CIS actually doing so.

I'm not aware of any, just an interesting thought. The only astromech I can even remember working for the seps is R3-S6, which was intentionally put in place of R2-D2 as a saboteur. They do appear to be used by the CIS for general service roles on big ships, because the Republic infiltrated with astros a few times as well.

18 minutes ago, CaptainJaguarShark said:

I'm not aware of any, just an interesting thought. The only astromech I can even remember working for the seps is R3-S6, which was intentionally put in place of R2-D2 as a saboteur. They do appear to be used by the CIS for general service roles on big ships, because the Republic infiltrated with astros a few times as well.

Ya, I was aware of both R3-S6 and the use of astros in capital ships and freighters as crew members.

24 minutes ago, Hiemfire said:

Ya, I was aware of both R3-S6 and the use of astros in capital ships and freighters as crew members.

Upgrade card for CIS - crew card: "Droid Crew", add 1 [astromech].

here, do a thing:

https://forms.gle/VXMWCZVNjL6Lhiy6A

1 hour ago, svelok said:

here, do a thing:

https://forms.gle/VXMWCZVNjL6Lhiy6A

Completed look forward to seeing the results when you post them. Thank you for doing this

4 hours ago, Hiemfire said:

Did the CIS use astromech capable fighters that we're aware of?

Sheathipede? Or is that something exclusive to the Phantom II?

Just now, ClassicalMoser said:

Sheathipede? Or is that something exclusive to the Phantom II?

/shrug I wouldn't doubt the Specters may have made that modification as a stable hookup point for Chopper. Still it could be a normal feature of the Sheathipede design.

2 hours ago, svelok said:

here, do a thing:

https://forms.gle/VXMWCZVNjL6Lhiy6A

Entered on form, but:

• LAAT 46 - 3 points more than a Lambda
• HMP 33 - enough for 6 per list but not with Probe Droids
• Hondo 8
• Brute 34 - 5 per list breakpoint, due to medium base
• Poe 66 - 1 point cheaper than standard
• V-Wing 27 - 2 points over a TIE/fo or Scyk
• Anakin 76 - I dunno... same as Kylo
• Tri-Fighter 30 - 1 less than a TIE Interceptor
• Jango 90 - Init 6 spray with a non-useless ability

1 hour ago, theBitterFig said:

Entered on form, but:

• LAAT 46 - 3 points more than a Lambda
• HMP 33 - enough for 6 per list but not with Probe Droids
• Hondo 8
• Brute 34 - 5 per list breakpoint, due to medium base
• Poe 66 - 1 point cheaper than standard
• V-Wing 27 - 2 points over a TIE/fo or Scyk
• Anakin 76 - I dunno... same as Kylo
• Tri-Fighter 30 - 1 less than a TIE Interceptor
• Jango 90 - Init 6 spray with a non-useless ability

LAAT - 46

HMP - 38

Hondo - 8

Brute - 35

Poe - 66

V-Wing - 28

Anakin - 67 (Vader’s value)

Tri-Fighter - 32

Jango - 80 (Max said on stream he’d likely be cheaper than Boba because Boba was still better)

This is what I submitted

5 hours ago, theBitterFig said:

Entered on form, but:

• LAAT 46 - 3 points more than a Lambda
• HMP 33 - enough for 6 per list but not with Probe Droids
• Hondo 8
• Brute 34 - 5 per list breakpoint, due to medium base
• Poe 66 - 1 point cheaper than standard
• V-Wing 27 - 2 points over a TIE/fo or Scyk
• Anakin 76 - I dunno... same as Kylo
• Tri-Fighter 30 - 1 less than a TIE Interceptor
• Jango 90 - Init 6 spray with a non-useless ability

I think new Poe will be more expensive than old Poe, even though his ability can be used half as much, it is an in built buffed coordinate that does not require an action.

I agree with most of your projections,

but new Poe will be 67-68 for reasons already stated.

Jango - 85, they said on stream his ability is not as good as Bobas, but he is int 6. They seem to prioritise cost on ability more than int atm, only reason I think it will be a similar cost.

Anakin is hard. Int 6, 3 force with a very condition specific ability. Will they make him “cheap” and have an expensive config a la CLT/7b? No idea. But 76 seems a decent start point.

2 hours ago, Cgriffith said:

HMP - 38

Brute - 35

HMP so much more than the Brute? I see them both kind of like a Dorsal Y-Wing or TIE/sf. Similar defensive statlines (2g+6 ~ 1g+8), with double-normal-arc-coverage. Maybe Sideslips are impactful enough to warrant a higher price, but absent that, I'd really think it'd fit into a 6-per list level, or at least very close to it. 6 points more than a TIE/sf just seems like a lot to me.

I mean, 38 is only 4 points less than the Auzituck, and that's got a full extra die. Maybe I'm missing something. Maybe it's the Barrage Rockets Curse. Most double-missile ships have been radically over-nerfed because of the horribly designed Barrage Rockets.

2 minutes ago, Archangelspiv said:

Anakin is hard. Int 6, 3 force with a very condition specific ability. Will they make him “cheap” and have an expensive config a la CLT? No idea. But 76 seems a decent start point.

I don't think his ability will be too tricky, since he probably fits into a low ship count list. I'd probably say it's better than other Anakins. Simply "After you fully execute a maneuver, if there are more enemy than friendly ships at Range 0-1, you may spend 1 force to remove 1 red token," is probably better than standard. Not arc limited, and not limited to stress tokens, and not limited to fully executed maneuvers--he can bump and remove a Lock someone took on him. Nasty. Plus he mostly gets to share his pilot ability with Obi-Wan, too, so it's kinda double.

On the one hand, this is a ship which only gets a single action during activation, so getting bullseye with a token might be tricky, and without Bullseye, this is a TIE Fighter. However, it's also a ship which can do everything. Pre-dial movements in the system phase, which could get really nasty with Sense. Purple Talon Rolls to do flips without stress. The massive depth to the bag of tricks of this ship makes me think it'll be pretty conservatively priced.

I dunno. Maybe I'm out of touch this wave. Seems like a lot of folks onhere who usually rail against Aces and Boba seem to really love Actis and Jango, and that's just baffling to me. I see massive potential for them to be really frustrating.

1 hour ago, theBitterFig said:

I don't think his ability will be too tricky, since he probably fits into a low ship count list. I'd probably say it's better than other Anakins. Simply "After you fully execute a maneuver, if there are more enemy than friendly ships at Range 0-1, you may spend 1 force to remove 1 red token," is probably better than standard. Not arc limited, and not limited to stress tokens, and not limited to fully executed maneuvers--he can bump and remove a Lock someone took on him. Nasty. Plus he mostly gets to share his pilot ability with Obi-Wan, too, so it's kinda double.

On the one hand, this is a ship which only gets a single action during activation, so getting bullseye with a token might be tricky, and without Bullseye, this is a TIE Fighter. However, it's also a ship which can do everything. Pre-dial movements in the system phase, which could get really nasty with Sense. Purple Talon Rolls to do flips without stress. The massive depth to the bag of tricks of this ship makes me think it'll be pretty conservatively priced.

I dunno. Maybe I'm out of touch this wave. Seems like a lot of folks on here who usually rail against Aces and Boba seem to really love Actis and Jango, and that's just baffling to me. I see massive potential for them to be really frustrating.

I think you are right RE the love Jango, hate Boba. I believe the ETA and Jango are going to be not that fun vs high skilled opponents, but easy vs newer players. The whole floor/ceiling thing. It will all come down to initial pricing, too cheap and we get 6 months of Republic/CIS meta, too expensive and people wont initially buy them in sufficient quantities, at the end of the day, it's all about sales too.

My "excitment" about Jango is, I cant fly swarms so it gives me options in a faction I really want to fly, the ETA I like, but it isnt as big a wow for me, it will be completely dependant on the upcoming news on them.

7 hours ago, ClassicalMoser said:

Sheathipede? Or is that something exclusive to the Phantom II?

Phantom II was heavily modified to include an external astro slot, both forward and rear weapons (stock were unarmed), a couple of turrets to defend the boarding ramp, and reinforced hull.

8 hours ago, Archangelspiv said:

I think new Poe will be more expensive than old Poe, even though his ability can be used half as much, it is an in built buffed coordinate that does not require an action.

I agree with most of your projections,

but new Poe will be 67-68 for reasons already stated.

I agree new Poe will probably be more expensive than old Poe, but old Poe still needs to go down a few more points itself.

Old Poe - 64

New Poe - 65/66

Edit- that's only considering the current state of the faction, some unseen new upgrades could make old Poe OP.

7 hours ago, Archangelspiv said:

My "excitment" about Jango is, I cant fly swarms so it gives me options in a faction I really want to fly

The Maul/Jango list which seems really natural looks like a lot of fun. 92 for Maul with Hate, Proton Torpedoes, and DRK-1 Probe Droids. Should leave enough for a Jango with Dooku (probably him not Palp) and maybe a toy or two. Boba never really considered Lone Wolf for obvious reasons, but it'd be a natural fit on Jango.

I just wish Jango had a pilot ability I didn't hate.

1 hour ago, Tyhar7 said:

but old Poe still needs to go down a few more points itself.

I think if Old Poe were going to go down more, they would have done it already. I kind of don't expect routine adjustments between now and future waves, only "emergency" adjustments, like if someone figured out a new Triple Upsilon equivalent list.

Not saying it wouldn't be good for him to go down, just that I don't think it'll happen until January.

1 hour ago, Tyhar7 said:

I agree new Poe will probably be more expensive than old Poe

10 hours ago, Archangelspiv said:

I think new Poe will be more expensive than old Poe, even though his ability can be used half as much, it is an in built buffed coordinate that does not require an action.

Maybe.

I guess I think new Poe will be cheaper for two reasons. First, and this is pretty big, it's now an every-other-turn ability. Second, Poe is usually going to be the most expensive ship in the list, and that's the ship which usually needs the coordinate. You typically don't put Squad Leader on Soontir Fel. If nuPoe is sending his pilot ability elsewhere, he's given up two actions over two turns compared to Old Poe, for each action he's given to someone else. That's a lot fewer actions.

Maybe there's some Rey/Poe list which finally breaks through, but my guess is that FFG thinks it's weaker. They want to add versatility to Poe, while lowering the overall power level, so they can cut his price some. In which case, maybe nuPoe will be even cheaper...

Just my baseless speculation, tho.

Anakin has 3 hull. Imo he has to be cheaper then both Kylo or Vader because of the one shot potential. Low 60s would be my guess.

32 minutes ago, K13R4N said:

Anakin has 3 hull. Imo he has to be cheaper then both Kylo or Vader because of the one shot potential. Low 60s would be my guess.

I agree. I think he’ll start at the same cost of Vader (67) While I understand @theBitterFig analysis about him being able to be everywhere (possibly) he becomes more predictable pre-maneuver if he does use the barrel roll or boost (which would cost him one of his 3 Force) then his ability is dependent on having a list with either Obi-Wan or being literally R1 of more enemies (to remove a red)

This bullseye is 3 primary 2 (built in CLT) I like that but even with 3 force he can melt with only 3 Hull. Literally if you equip the new R2D2 he if you use R2 only for shields is Darth Vader and R2D2 will not be cheap.

Thats why 67 was my starting point, I think R2D2 is a 8-10 astromech

Edit 2: I think Anakin may come in even lower than 67.

4 hours ago, K13R4N said:

Anakin has 3 hull. Imo he has to be cheaper then both Kylo or Vader because of the one shot potential. Low 60s would be my guess.

Yeah, could be.

This sucker just has so much flexibility...

On 8/7/2020 at 3:04 PM, svelok said:

here, do a thing:

https://forms.gle/VXMWCZVNjL6Lhiy6A

the latest:

Those look broadly reasonable, although I put the V-Wing lower and Hondo a bit higher.

To me the V-Wing looks like it fits between the TIE/fo (linked actions, boost, second shield) and the lowest TIE/v1 generic (lower initiative, worse action bar), so I'd expect the price to be between 26-28 without config.

Hondo gives you the ability to coordinate or jam as a white action at range 1-3, with a downside. For comparison Squad Leader gives you the ability to coordinate at the standard range with a downside (stress, limitation on action choice) and is 8-14 points depending on initiative. The downside to Hondo can be bad but there are a lot of situations where it doesn't matter too much, and the flexibility to use it to either coordinate your own ships or to jam enemy ships at long range seems very strong.

20 hours ago, theBitterFig said:

I think if Old Poe were going to go down more, they would have done it already. I kind of don't expect routine adjustments between now and future waves, only "emergency" adjustments, like if someone figured out a new Triple Upsilon equivalent list.

Not saying it wouldn't be good for him to go down, just that I don't think it'll happen until January.

Maybe.

I guess I think new Poe will be cheaper for two reasons.

I don't expect to see any points changes on existing ships until January either to be honest.

I think we'll see the new ships enter the meta and they've likely already been priced in this wave. But they'll want to see how they do for a few months before making sweeping changes.

New Poe will like come in under old Poe just to get people to experiment with it. If it stays that way is another question. It's hard to say if his new ability is worth less or not. The Poe-tential (couldn't resist) of triggering another action on another ship could be great. Losing the ability to do this every turn is not, however you can see that if they did it that way it would be a straight upgrade to old Poe.