Looks so far that I was pretty right on with my estimated points for the new pilots, i was only wrong with Anakin as it appears 60 seems to be the consensus (I was at 67) I thought conservatively starting him with Vader but definitely see why 60 is probably closer to the right now a 3 Hull ship w/ no shields (excluding R2D2 if you add him for whatever his cost becomes) I knew he probably (Anakin) not be anywhere above 70.

1 hour ago, Cgriffith said:

Looks so far that I was pretty right on with my estimated points for the new pilots, i was only wrong with Anakin as it appears 60 seems to be the consensus (I was at 67) I thought conservatively starting him with Vader but definitely see why 60 is probably closer to the right now a 3 Hull ship w/ no shields (excluding R2D2 if you add him for whatever his cost becomes) I knew he probably (Anakin) not be anywhere above 70.

Personally, I peg the ETAs as about 5pts cheaper than their CLT counterparts, though within that context (and I know not everybody agrees with me) I think CLT Obi is several points too cheap, which would put his version at about the same price. This is based on a grand one (1) game proxying them, but they felt considerably less reactive, more fragile, and more force-thirsty; and required to double-down on correctly anticipating dials than the current jedi. They have their own strengths, for sure, but they're strengths that don't scale quite as hard with initiative as the Aether's and require playing them as less of a hammer. Conversely, though with any luck this doesn't matter for Best Format, they do need to be priced to account for the possibility to combine them with old jedi and run lists of 3-4 jedi all at high initiative, rather than the Jedi + Ric or mixed i4 Jedi Soup lists. Not sure how that factors in, since I'm choosing to cover my eyes and hope when I open them the Aether aces have been ejected from hyper on Eta release. My 2 cents. (For several additional sense, I think the community is pegging Hondo as too cheap and Brutes as too expensive.)

Reposting the link just in case since it's a new page: https://forms.gle/rWwAKVnFPCMeoLxRA

Also, for the community: It slipped my mind, but I'm pretty curious what price people think MMP will cost.

Before you answer, make sure you've noted:

- Range 1-2 , no range bonus, requires lock or calc.
- Requires double missile slot , so only usable on: TIE Bombers, TIE Punishers, TIE Aggressors, K-Wings, (one) Hyena; and presumably (some or all) LAATs and HMPs. (Edit: and config-ed gunboats)
- Make a mental note of how many different shots you get in different combinations, with the 1/2/3 charge cost of 2/3/4 dice shots.

https://www.strawpoll.me/20742592

I'm thinking it will cost similar to Barrage, so 8+. Sure, for most ships it's harder to shoot it due to needing a TL, but it's still a 180 arc, and potentially a 4 dice attack in Bullseye (which still leaves you with some charges). But it is 1-2 instead of 2-3. So I feel like it's differences from barrage are balanced out by it's strengths.

Also, K-Wing with MMP and K-2SO may be good? literally would only have a sliver in R1-2 uncovered by arc.

3 hours ago, svelok said:

Not sure how that factors in, since I'm choosing to cover my eyes and hope when I open them the Aether aces have been ejected from hyper on Eta release. My 2 cents.

It'd probably be sweet to have only Jedi Knights, Barriss, Lumi, and Ahsoka, with CLT removed but 7B added in. Then it'd really fill a different kind of role in HS from the ETA, and there'd be a reason to fly one over the other.

3 hours ago, svelok said:

Personally, I peg the ETAs as about 5pts cheaper than their CLT counterparts

Yeah, that kind makes a lot of sense... It's nearly the same statline and roughly equivalent actions/dial/ability, but missing a shield...

3 hours ago, HanScottFirst said:

Also, K-Wing with MMP and K-2SO may be good? literally would only have a sliver in R1-2 uncovered by arc.

One with Kaytoo, one with Threepio? Getting two Calcs from C-3PO, and being able to spend one on defense, might be pretty nice. Meanwhile, your Kaytoo one can approach on Calcs, switch maybe to Locks later on, but maybe toss that Calc over to some 3rd ship...

Flipside, how much better is that than just running Barrage? Barrage + Side is pretty similar, and longer range. Barrage/Kaytoo K-Wing could be an interesting little semi-supporter/time-on-target ship.

3 hours ago, svelok said:

- Range 1-2 , no range bonus, requires lock or calc.
- Requires double missile slot , so only usable on: TIE Bombers, TIE Punishers, TIE Aggressors, K-Wings, (one) Hyena; and presumably (some or all) LAATs and HMPs. (Edit: and config-ed gunboats)
- Make a mental note of how many different shots you get in different combinations, with the 1/2/3 charge cost of 2/3/4 dice shots.

Roll -> Lock on TIE Bombers has never been tastier.

9 hours ago, svelok said:

Not sure how that factors in, since I'm choosing to cover my eyes and hope when I open them the Aether aces have been ejected from hyper on Eta release. My 2 cents. (For several additional sense, I think the community is pegging Hondo as too cheap and Brutes as too expensive.)

I’m with you when the ETAs release there should be enough Republic options that the Delta 7s should find there way into extended and allow for ETAs to have the spotlight. Very interested to see how the super maneuverable, super force added interceptors perform. Sign me up.

What do you think Hondo should be? (8) is the median what do you think Hondo will be 10? 12?

Brutes too expensive that’s interesting

22 minutes ago, Cgriffith said:

What do you think Hondo should be? (8) is the median I think do you think Hondo will be 10? 12?

God I can't tell how wrong I am on this one but my gut was nearly double that. It costs like 5-6 points for coordinate, and dramatically more at higher init. The additional jam is a downside but how big of one? And the upside is triple the range? That's before the ability to jam an opponent?

I think we need to know how Hondo will interact with the rules (eg: can you coord a stressed enemy ship for no action?) to be more confident but Rebels have some cheap crew slots and that could be an insanely strong card, and plenty of ships these days don't mind being self-jammed (force + just spend action repoing). K2S0 is already 8 - Hondo at the same??? Seems crazy to me.

Brutes (as you can see from the StDev) had a pretty high variation. Plenty of people put it about where I would've, others way higher. To me, it's a punisher without boost and a low value (before upgrades) turret. Lots of people seem to believe that 5 ABC Brutes won't fit, but I very much do (6 Dorsal Ys fits, after all.)

3 hours ago, svelok said:

God I can't tell how wrong I am on this one but my gut was nearly double that. It costs like 5-6 points for coordinate, and dramatically more at higher init. The additional jam is a downside but how big of one? And the upside is triple the range? That's before the ability to jam an opponent?

My guess on Hondo was 14, yeah. I’m shocked to see people were mean/median around 8.

On 8/9/2020 at 10:46 AM, svelok said:

I think the community is pegging Hondo as too cheap and Brutes as too expensive.

Same team, but I also think the devs may think the same way. I fully expect that upon release, Hondo will be ubiquitous and Brutes will be obscure or even DOA. I expect both will get fixed quickly though.

19 hours ago, Cgriffith said:

What do you think Hondo should be? (8) is the median what do you think Hondo will be 10? 12?

19 hours ago, svelok said:

God I can't tell how wrong I am on this one but my gut was nearly double that. It costs like 5-6 points for coordinate, and dramatically more at higher init. The additional jam is a downside but how big of one? And the upside is triple the range? That's before the ability to jam an opponent?

SAME TEAM. I think I put 14, figuring he ought to be 18 but would come in underpriced.

19 hours ago, svelok said:

Brutes (as you can see from the StDev) had a pretty high variation. Plenty of people put it about where I would've, others way higher. To me, it's a punisher without boost and a low value (before upgrades) turret. Lots of people seem to believe that 5 ABC Brutes won't fit, but I very much do (6 Dorsal Ys fits, after all.)

It's a strictly worse Reaper. Not sure why anyone would pay more vs a Reaper. I'm positive 5 should fit. I'm skeptical that they will. I'm expecting 6 ought to.

Honestly it's probably worse naked than a TIE/sf. Can't double-arc, doesn't have any shields, less agility, medium base, worse dial...

A couple of hull really doesn't make up for that, and cannons are much worse than PS Missiles.

22 minutes ago, ClassicalMoser said:

I'm positive 5 [Brutes] should fit. I'm skeptical that they will. I'm expecting 6 ought to.

My thoughts on Brute pricing is that FFG just won't let 6 medium base ships in. That's just a lot of physical real estate, a huge amount of area on the table.

In terms of value, if they were small-base, they'd be worse than TIE/sfs. With a Cannon, I think they're probably still worse than Y-Wings, but having Range 3 does matter.

But the fact of Medium base makes me think they'll get breakpointed to 5 per list.

1 hour ago, theBitterFig said:

In terms of value, if they were small-base, they'd be worse than TIE/sfs. With a Cannon, I think they're probably still worse than Y-Wings, but having Range 3 does matter.

It's not just cannon vs turret. It's cannon vs turret + torpedoes + bombs.

Compare the Brute to the Punisher. The statline is the same except the Punisher trades 2 hull for 3 shields and the /rb is stuck with a turret arc instead of the generally-more-useful front arc. But then the Punisher gets a stop maneuver, two torp slots, two missile slots, a sensor slot, and two payload slots. The Heavy gets a talent and a (always-overpriced) cannon.

I guess white reinforce and calculate are okayish, but they do nothing against the crits that cripple TIE Bombers so often. Linked calculate could be a perk if there's enough blue on the dial, but I rather doubt that. Have we seen the dial?

The Punisher is 35 base and still doesn't get played. Go down two points for the Heavy and you break the 6x breakpoint.

Maybe it all comes down to the configs.

27 minutes ago, ClassicalMoser said:

It's not just cannon vs turret. It's cannon vs turret + torpedoes + bombs.

Compare the Brute to the Punisher. The statline is the same except the Punisher trades 2 hull for 3 shields and the /rb is stuck with a turret arc instead of the generally-more-useful front arc. But then the Punisher gets a stop maneuver, two torp slots, two missile slots, a sensor slot, and two payload slots. The Heavy gets a talent and a (always-overpriced) cannon.

I guess white reinforce and calculate are okayish, but they do nothing against the crits that cripple TIE Bombers so often. Linked calculate could be a perk if there's enough blue on the dial, but I rather doubt that. Have we seen the dial?

The Punisher is 35 base and still doesn't get played. Go down two points for the Heavy and you break the 6x breakpoint.

The dial is squint-able in the spread (shown on the first page of this thread). 1-2 straight, 2 banks are blue. 1 hard and 3 hard are red. It has a white 4 straight, and red 3 Talon Rolls. About par for the course as a Medium Base ship (only one usable hard turn, poor flips), but that 4-straight is nice.

With the config, it's all 1-2-3 straight and bank blue, plus it'll be able to white roll linked to red calculate.

Compared to the Punisher, that thing can't shoot backwards, and doesn't have reinforce. Meanwhile, if the Punisher had a Cannon slot, it'd stand a much better chance of seeing play. Cannons can be pretty good... Another way to think about this: how much will a Brute with an Ion Cannon cost?

And again, I'm not saying that it's worth 34 points or more, but that I don't think it'll be less than that, simply because of six medium bases. FFG held off on buffing the G1-A more for breakpoint reasons (although they slipped past with Reapers).

42 minutes ago, ClassicalMoser said:

Maybe it all comes down to the configs.

I wonder how they'll work in terms of points. I'm not sure if they'll be more like a B-Wing/Aethersprite or like a Starwing.

I could see the configs having a price based on the value added, with different prices and a cheaper base Brute

I could see two really different configs (one maneuver, one offensive) being 0-points for a Gunboat style of feeling. Choose which kind of Brute you want, but you'll have some extra power for some particular playstyle. Maybe that's how they'll justify a 34+ cost. getting all the banks and 1-3 straight as blue, plus not only a white Roll, but a link into a calculate is worth something. That's Nien Nunb plus Expert Handling, with a slight sprinking of K-2SO. Now, I don't think that means the config is worth 5 + 3 + (8/4=2) = 10 points, but might make the difference.

On 8/9/2020 at 10:46 AM, svelok said:

Before you answer, make sure you've noted:

- Range 1-2 , no range bonus, requires lock or calc.
- Requires double missile slot , so only usable on: TIE Bombers, TIE Punishers, TIE Aggressors, K-Wings, (one) Hyena; and presumably (some or all) LAATs and HMPs. (Edit: and config-ed gunboats)
- Make a mental note of how many different shots you get in different combinations, with the 1/2/3 charge cost of 2/3/4 dice shots.

Does it strike anyone as ironic that this doesn't look good at all on an HMP Gunship? The gunship already has a full arc, 2 die primary that goes out to range three and gets the range bonus at range 1. The pods have passive rerolls ( edit : the pods get extra dice to roll, not rerolls), but so does the gunship.

Aside from the gunship, I wonder if it will be good on anything else. Putting it on K-Wings, LAATs, and Aggressors seems cute, but I don't know how good that will be. OS-1 Gunboats seem interesting if they can get locks, SLAMming around the board, shooting out the side-ish.

1 minute ago, 5050Saint said:

Does it strike anyone as ironic that this doesn't look good at all on an HMP Gunship? The gunship already has a full arc, 2 die primary that goes out to range three and gets the range bonus at range 1. The pods have passive rerolls, but so does the gunship.

Aside from the gunship, I wonder if it will be good on anything else. Putting it on K-Wings, LAATs, and Aggressors seems cute, but I don't know how good that will be. OS-1 Gunboats seem interesting if they can get locks, SLAMming around the board, shooting out the side-ish.

It's not a strong card. People are having visions of barrage; I don't know if it sees play at all unless it's 4pts or less.

1 minute ago, svelok said:

It's not a strong card. People are having visions of barrage; I don't know if it sees play at all unless it's 4pts or less.

If it had been a 3 die secondary, then it would be strong. At 2 dice, range 1-2, it seems okay. Like you said, 4 points seems right.

2 hours ago, 5050Saint said:

The pods have passive rerolls, but so does the gunship.

🤨 You spend charges to roll that many additional dice depending on the location of the target. That ain't rerolls.

2 hours ago, 5050Saint said:

If it had been a 3 die secondary, then it would be strong. At 2 dice, range 1-2, it seems okay. Like you said, 4 points seems right.

It is, against targets in the ship's front arc, for 2 shots. 4 die against against targets in the ship's bullseye arc (though only one shot's worth unless reloaded).

1 minute ago, Hiemfire said:

🤨 You spend charges to roll that many additional dice depending on the location of the target. That ain't rerolls.

I are bad at reading comprehension, apparently. I kept reading it as "reroll" not "roll". With that, the pods just got a little better in my mind. Baktoid Prototypes + HMP Gunships and some DRK-1 sound solid. The lacking range 3 still holds it back, which is just fine to me. No need for cheap non-lock full damage missiles that go to range 3.