Hi

I have been list building and with the drop in cost of Vennie and a few of her toys I though it might be a nice time to try her again and see if I can get it working.

I have run a bulky vennie with bastian and a A wing before but want to try a few changes and adding a few things to vennie.

this list I have go for all I 2's, Vennie has all her toys and fun but the support ships can still be useful on their own and put through enough damage by them selfs.

I did find in the Past the Awing did not push through enough damage for a 3 ship list.

Vennie (54)
Trajectory Simulator (6)
Pattern Analyzer (5)
Perceptive Copilot (8)
Veteran Turret Gunner (7)
Rey (14)
Seismic Charges (3)
Proton Bombs (5)
Delayed Fuses (1)

Ship total: 103 Half Points: 52 Threshold: 6

Finn (29)
Heroic (1)
Pattern Analyzer (5)
Perceptive Copilot (8)

Ship total: 43 Half Points: 22 Threshold: 2

Lieutenant Bastian (47)
M9-G8 (7)
Integrated S-Foils (0)

Ship total: 54 Half Points: 27 Threshold: 4


Total: 200

as Vennie will be focused fire and that's ok if I can get to the end and have a damaged bastien and a Finn I should be in a ok position.

I am not sure if people can think of better wing men for Vennie or have tried some thing similar they think works a lot better.

I still think Vennie is a tough row to hoe. Even with some points drops, they are so slow, so bloated, so...still-not-good. But maybe I'm wrong. I'd LOVE to be wrong. Even if Vennie ain't my favorite Starfortress. But looking at your list, and trying to keep the same ships, I think you can get more mileage out of a slightly slimmer Vennie, and a slightly beefier Bastian.

Lieutenant Bastian (47)
M9-G8 (7)
Integrated S-Foils (0)
Proton Torpedoes (13)
Ship total: 67 Half Points: 34 Threshold: 4

Finn (29)
Heroic (1)
Perceptive Copilot (8)
Ship total: 38 Half Points: 19 Threshold: 2

Vennie (54)
Fire-Control System (2)
Pattern Analyzer (5)
Rose Tico (9)
Veteran Turret Gunner (7)
Rey (14)
Shield Upgrade (4)
Ship total: 95 Half Points: 48 Threshold: 7

Total: 200

Proton Torpedoes give Bastian more punch, especially with his pilot ability, and help to muddle target priority a bit more. And Vennie *will* die, so keeping him a little lighter is probably a good thing, while the Rose/VTG/FCS synergy allows him to hit a little harder on the way out. Just a thought.

1 hour ago, 01jbell said:

I am not sure if people can think of better wing men for Vennie or have tried some thing similar they think works a lot better.

Zizi Tlo with Optics and Heroic is 46 points, so only really a Seismic Charge different from Finn in the first list.

I've also seen some cool plays (probably more cool than good!) with Nodin Chavdri with C-3PO, Korr Sella, Tractor Beam, and M9-G8. Coordinate Vennie, then take an extra action. You've got the Tractor to make sure Vennie's double tap is effective. But it's 4 points more expensive than Bastian, and nothing can really be cut, so it's probably not a great idea.

One other thought: is Vennie or Cat the right pick now? Vennie is the classic, due to damage avoidance, but Cat can hurl a bomb then chuck a lot of dice at someone. 2 points cheaper, and you can probably cut Ray, for an even bigger saving. Add in an M9-G8 Transport with Tractor Beam and maybe two Optics A-Wings?

Bah, probably none of it is really great... Just fun to fly a bomber I guess...

13 hours ago, theBitterFig said:

Zizi Tlo with Optics and Heroic is 46 points, so only really a Seismic Charge different from Finn in the first list.

I've also seen some cool plays (probably more cool than good!) with Nodin Chavdri with C-3PO, Korr Sella, Tractor Beam, and M9-G8. Coordinate Vennie, then take an extra action. You've got the Tractor to make sure Vennie's double tap is effective. But it's 4 points more expensive than Bastian, and nothing can really be cut, so it's probably not a great idea.

One other thought: is Vennie or Cat the right pick now? Vennie is the classic, due to damage avoidance, but Cat can hurl a bomb then chuck a lot of dice at someone. 2 points cheaper, and you can probably cut Ray, for an even bigger saving. Add in an M9-G8 Transport with Tractor Beam and maybe two Optics A-Wings?

Bah, probably none of it is really great... Just fun to fly a bomber I guess...

I looked at CAT but was not sold on her, either you launch a bomb with a fuse on it so you can use their ability which will most likely be a range 3 4 dice primary with a range 3 2 dice attack, but then chances are your bomb wont hit any one and or you get caught in the explosion next turn.

or you drop the bomb or mine and if they are behind you that's only a single 3 or 4 dice attack. which is ok.

However as I was playing around with a few Vennie builds as of late, even with her ability, focus fire will take her down which yes it will do for any ship.

But her manoeuvrability is pretty poor, if not one of the worst ships in the game. To get the most out of the 102 point list you need people to joust her for more then the initial pass.

my opponents would either out joust the list or just split their force and get behind vennie,

I lost to a 5 X wing list last night. I tried jousting it but lost 8 health on the first pass, I did get a launched proton bomb on them which meant one shield knocked off 5 of them. but I was only able to knock one X wing down to one health. after that they split got behind me and as it takes so long to turn back around I was dead before I got another meaningful pass with Vennie.

that game ended up losing whole squad and got 2 and a half X wing.

I want the star fortress to be good so badly the resistance really don't have any great large ships . however to be truthful no faction seems to have a great one, maybe the republic falcon and the decimator maybe.

But I think the amount of points put in to a star fortress to get it to its full potential is too much. In a vacuum makes it a very powerful ship but with some massive short comings that are hard to mask especially after the first pass.

even a base star fortress with veteran turret gunner, pattern analyser and perceptive co pilot comes in a 71 points maybe add Paige for 78 but still feels like a lot of points for what will be a lot of the time a 2 dice attack ship.

I may have a play with slimmed down double tap star fortress and see what happens

might try just a pure bomb carrier and see if I can get enough damage from bombs alone and have the turrent out the left and right side for a massive 270 degree coverage

Cobalt Squadron Bomber (51)
Trajectory Simulator (6)
Seismic Charges (3)
Proton Bombs (5)

comes in at 65 points which may be fun to use as a bit of a blocker and suicide ship just to add bulk and some bombing fun.

4 hours ago, 01jbell said:

I may have a play with slimmed down double tap star fortress and see what happens

might try just a pure bomb carrier and see if I can get enough damage from bombs alone and have the turrent out the left and right side for a massive 270 degree coverage

Cobalt Squadron Bomber (51)
Trajectory Simulator (6)
Seismic Charges (3)
Proton Bombs (5)

comes in at 65 points which may be fun to use as a bit of a blocker and suicide ship just to add bulk and some bombing fun.

I almost want to fly three of those, just toss in Delayed Fuses, and maybe upgrade one to Cat.

20 minutes ago, theBitterFig said:

I almost want to fly three of those, just toss in Delayed Fuses, and maybe upgrade one to Cat.

What about this.

Cobalt Squadron Bomber (51)
Trajectory Simulator (6)
Seismic Charges (3)
Proton Bombs (5)

Ship total: 65 Half Points: 33 Threshold: 6

Cobalt Squadron Bomber (51)
Trajectory Simulator (6)
Seismic Charges (3)
Proton Bombs (5)

Ship total: 65 Half Points: 33 Threshold: 6

Poe Dameron (67)
Heroic (1)
Integrated S-Foils (0)
Black One (2)

Ship total: 70 Half Points: 35 Threshold: 4


Total: 200

a lsit from the start of the last jedi, it would not be good but would be fun to see how people would tackle that beef and all the bombs.

If nothing else, it makes me smile.

15 minutes ago, theBitterFig said:

If nothing else, it makes me smile.

And that is why we play the game. I would rather have a fun out there list that's not great then a very powerful one where no one enjoys flying against.

I remember a few times I flow the supper vennie people were not happy with the amount of mods the ship had kept having flash backs to 1st ed.

so a list like that would be fun I would even fly it to see if I can destroy all obstacles in one game.

What I have found is that the Starfortress really does pretty well in Epic. Just not so much elsewhere. Which makes me sad, as Finch was the vehicle of my greatest tournament success in First Edition. But in Epic? Yeah, all those huge ships and wings and swarms make bombs *actually* good.

Now, @01jbell , about the Resistance not having any great large base ships. Rey would like a word with you. 😁

37 minutes ago, Kleeg005 said:

What I have found is that the Starfortress really does pretty well in Epic. Just not so much elsewhere. Which makes me sad, as Finch was the vehicle of my greatest tournament success in First Edition. But in Epic? Yeah, all those huge ships and wings and swarms make bombs *actually* good.

Now, @01jbell , about the Resistance not having any great large base ships. Rey would like a word with you. 😁

I need to try a few games of epic, Hopefully live events can start some time next year.

@Kleeg005 Rey is good but great may be pushing it. I enjoy rey and han but the Base ship has so many short comings.

Can they be great at times in some games, yes but I think they are best cheap and cheerful in a balanced squad and some times they will just be average.

I guess the times of fat large base ships are more of a 1st edition. I am glad the Fat list are in the past I still have nightmares of the ghost from 1st ed.

First Ed. Ghost.... I never once won a game against that monstrosity. Never once even removed it from play. **shiver**

But maybe try this? It takes a little getting used to a slightly different playstyle, but it can be damnably effective. DO NOT chase the 'synergy.' Just use Rey as a big-*** hammer, and let the A-Wings do their thing. Swap tokens around as necessary. Abuse the all-i5 activation to really make those token swaps count. After losing the first game, it's undefeated for me. Granted, I'm not playing against top-level folks, and I've only had seven games with it. But still.

Rey (68)
Amilyn Holdo (8)
Rose Tico (9)
Finn (10)
Deadman's Switch (2)
Engine Upgrade (7)
Rey's Millennium Falcon (2)
Ship total: 106 Half Points: 53 Threshold: 6

Zizi Tlo (41)
Marksmanship (1)
Heroic (1)
Advanced Optics (4)
Ship total: 47 Half Points: 24 Threshold: 2

Tallissan Lintra (36)
Heroic (1)
Marksmanship (1)
Advanced Optics (4)
Ship total: 42 Half Points: 21 Threshold: 2

Total: 195

And yeah. Epic is feckin' awesome!

15 hours ago, Kleeg005 said:

First Ed. Ghost.... I never once won a game against that monstrosity. Never once even removed it from play. **shiver**

But maybe try this? It takes a little getting used to a slightly different playstyle, but it can be damnably effective. DO NOT chase the 'synergy.' Just use Rey as a big-*** hammer, and let the A-Wings do their thing. Swap tokens around as necessary. Abuse the all-i5 activation to really make those token swaps count. After losing the first game, it's undefeated for me. Granted, I'm not playing against top-level folks, and I've only had seven games with it. But still.

Rey (68)
Amilyn Holdo (8)
Rose Tico (9)
Finn (10)
Deadman's Switch (2)
Engine Upgrade (7)
Rey's Millennium Falcon (2)
Ship total: 106 Half Points: 53 Threshold: 6

Zizi Tlo (41)
Marksmanship (1)
Heroic (1)
Advanced Optics (4)
Ship total: 47 Half Points: 24 Threshold: 2

Tallissan Lintra (36)
Heroic (1)
Marksmanship (1)
Advanced Optics (4)
Ship total: 42 Half Points: 21 Threshold: 2

Total: 195

And yeah. Epic is feckin' awesome!

yeah I have been meaning to try the fat rey. last tournament I played

I flew against a Rey with Finn and rose and title with nien numb and zizi and got destroyed ( I was flying 3 jedi 2 with delta 7 and one with ctl and chopper )

I made a mistake and ended up with mace range one of rey they got 5 hits ( 2 crits) and my green dice failed so was taken off in one shot. it was brutal.

I have been messing with some naked reys or rey with title and that's it and have her move around the edge of the board circling. But not had a chance to try it yet.

@Kleeg005 but that looks fun to fly I may give that a go.

I may have dropped Amilyn Holdo (8) and dean man switch (2) as well as the marksman and replace Tallissan with a 54 point T-70 but I always feel a T-70 is too good of a base ship to not have one in a resistance list and even better if it can have heroic.