I'm not sure, but it might be simple

Kestal says:

Finn crew:

Is it attacker first, defender after? So you cancel blanks/focus results, and then Finn adds his result?

20 minutes ago, GreenDragoon said:

I'm not sure, but it might be simple

Kestal says:

Finn crew:

Is it attacker first, defender after? So you cancel blanks/focus results, and then Finn adds his result?

Yep.

Defender modifies Attack dice first, then Attacker.

Attacker modifies Defense dice first, then Defender.

Mostly, each player gets the last chance to modify their own dice, and the opponent almost always goes first. There are some awkward examples where timings are a little ill defined (usually with "cancel such and such results" effects), but most stuff works this way.

2 hours ago, theBitterFig said:

Yep.

Defender modifies Attack dice first, then Attacker.

Attacker modifies Defense dice first, then Defender.

Mostly, each player gets the last chance to modify their own dice, and the opponent almost always goes first. There are some awkward examples where timings are a little ill defined (usually with "cancel such and such results" effects), but most stuff works this way.

In this case, it doesn't matter what the order normally is. Kestal flat out says "After defender rolls dice" so even before the modify defense dice step, he triggers. THEN he gets his 'attacker modifies defense dice step"

This can be important because if the Kestal player has a way to change defender results into blanks or focuses, they cannot use them and then use Kestal to cancel them. Kestal's ability has to happen first.

2 hours ago, Lyianx said:

In this case, it doesn't matter what the order normally is. Kestal flat out says "After defender rolls dice" so even before the modify defense dice step, he triggers. THEN he gets his 'attacker modifies defense dice step"

This can be important because if the Kestal player has a way to change defender results into blanks or focuses, they cannot use them and then use Kestal to cancel them. Kestal's ability has to happen first.

Good point. In other words, Kestal can't kibosh a focus created by Juke.

On 7/29/2020 at 9:55 AM, Lyianx said:

In this case, it doesn't matter what the order normally is. Kestal flat out says "After defender rolls dice" so even before the modify defense dice step, he triggers. THEN he gets his 'attacker modifies defense dice step"

This can be important because if the Kestal player has a way to change defender results into blanks or focuses, they cannot use them and then use Kestal to cancel them. Kestal's ability has to happen first.

I believe the Han ruling contradicts this. It would be at the normal step. IMHO

2 hours ago, JBFancourt said:

I believe the Han ruling contradicts this. It would be at the normal step. IMHO

Possibly... but it's a bit of comparing apples to oranges. Han Solo's ability was moved to the dice modification steps because it is a modification. Kestal, though, is not: he cancels dice results, which is not considered to be a modification. As such, the reason for moving his ability to the dice modification step is absent.

18 hours ago, JBFancourt said:

I believe the Han ruling contradicts this. It would be at the normal step. IMHO

I had the same gut reaction to that, but when I was double checking the wording I realized what @emeraldbeacon said above: there is not a 'normal' step for cancelling dice so there's no step to move Kestal to.

See the multiple threads regarding dice cancelling abilities where the consensus is that without a stated timing you could use them at any point between --but not including-- rolling the dice and comparing results because it is specifically not a modification. Some cancel abilities do have a stated timing though, like Kestal or Crack Shot, so they should be applied at that timing.

wish i could delete my own posts.