Have some questions about upgrades like fives, probably wont have the answer until the RRG gets updated but I figured id put them in front of the group to see what everone thinks. Let me explain lets says I have fives in a phase 1 clone squad and my opponent shoots said squad but the only model they can see is fives what happens?

Scenario 1.

Only 1 dmg makes it through after saves so fives takes one dmg, but what happens later when the squad gets shot again but this time all the phase 1s are visible to the attacker fives is the leader so he is defeated last but he has a wound assigned to him meaning any dmg the squad takes has to be assigned to him first. My guess is they will just say the leader rule overrides the wound assignment rule.

Scenario 2.

2 dmg makes it through to fives after saves killing him. Ok well since hes the leader we just replace him with one of the models in the squad. But do we replace fives with no wounds since we defeated another model in the squad? Or would he have 1 wound on him since the attacker did 2 dmg and the phase 1 we defeated in his place can only take 1 wound?

Scenario one, fives would take a second wound first, then you assign wounds to the rest of the unit. After the attack is resolved you replace one of the surviving miniatures with fives.
As for scenario 2, that is a question you need to shoot to the developers. We can go back an forth but that one does need clarification.

22 minutes ago, Shadowhawk252 said:

Scenario one, fives would take a second wound first, then you assign wounds to the rest of the unit. After the attack is resolved you replace one of the surviving miniatures with fives.

Are u saying u would bring fives back with no wounds when u replace another model? I really doubt this would be the case because then u would essentially be doubling fives health from 2 to 4

I would hope that the leader comes back with an equal amount of wounds as the model they are replacing had.

2 hours ago, DFocke said:

I would hope that the leader comes back with an equal amount of wounds as the model they are replacing had.

If by "wounds" you mean wound tokens, then yes, that is what happens. If you mean health, then no.

We already have the situation where a muti-wound leader can end up removed first (terrain sniping Tauntauns or Speeder Bikes). In that situation, the leader model replaces the non-leader model and the wound tokens that were on the non-leader model are now on the leader model. This isn't significantly different, and 1 wound isn't worth trying to "fix" the rules. The RAW still don't allow C3-P0 to be returned to the unit using repair.

I guess the issue that has been mentioned elsewhere is (correct me if I'm wrong) we have never had a leader mini with a different weapon before. When heavies get sniped before other minis in the unit due to LOS or force choke you don’t replace one of the other minis in the unit with the heavy, even though thematically most of the time you would think one of the other members of the unit might pick up the gun from their fallen team member.

There will need to be some clarification from FFG around unique leader minis going into squads and what happens in certain situations.

59 minutes ago, Mace Windu said:

I guess the issue that has been mentioned elsewhere is (correct me if I'm wrong) we have never had a leader mini with a different weapon before. When heavies get sniped before other minis in the unit due to LOS or force choke you don’t replace one of the other minis in the unit with the heavy, even though thematically most of the time you would think one of the other members of the unit might pick up the gun from their fallen team member.

There will need to be some clarification from FFG around unique leader minis going into squads and what happens in certain situations.

There is. Pao for the Pathfinders is and I believe the DTs also have one.

1 hour ago, Mace Windu said:

I guess the issue that has been mentioned elsewhere is (correct me if I'm wrong) we have never had a leader mini with a different weapon before.

We've had this for a while. Every Sniper Strike Team and Pao in the Pathfinders comes to mind. The only difference is that this time the mini has a different health value.

12 minutes ago, thepopemobile100 said:

There is. Pao for the Pathfinders is and I believe the DTs also have one.

11 minutes ago, arnoldrew said:

We've had this for a while. Every Sniper Strike Team and Pao in the Pathfinders comes to mind. The only difference is that this time the mini has a different health value.

Interesting, so this issue hasn't been raised before? seems a real rules conflict that if your heavy dies its removed from the game, but if your heave is also your leader they get to "Agent Smith" another mini in the squad? very strange

13 minutes ago, Mace Windu said:

Interesting, so this issue hasn't been raised before? seems a real rules conflict that if your heavy dies its removed from the game, but if your heave is also your leader they get to "Agent Smith" another mini in the squad? very strange

No, it isn't a rules conflict. This is specifically how it is supposed to be handled per the devs. That's the big advantage of the Leader keyword/Strike Teams, that the model will always be in the unit until the unit is removed. I'm sure that's part of the points cost.

15 minutes ago, Caimheul1313 said:

No, it isn't a rules conflict. This is specifically how it is supposed to be handled per the devs. That's the big advantage of the Leader keyword/Strike Teams, that the model will always be in the unit until the unit is removed. I'm sure that's part of the points cost.

So just to clarify, you are perfectly happy with this situation:

Squad of Death troopers in identical situations where the heavy is the only visible mini in the unit from the attacker.

The squad takes a wound, if it’s the DLT 19 Heavy its removed from the board permanently.

But if its DT F16 that takes the hit then the player gets to replace one of the standard minis in the squad with DT F16 and keep his gun and ability on the board?

That makes zero sense rules wise, both minis are heavy troopers, both were the only eligible target for the attack to take damage but just because one is a leader type mini you get to keep him magically?

Even if the rules do allow it, you have to admit thematically its a huge fail from FFG.

I really don't see why in the instance of a unique character that is a leader being killed they aren't just replaced with the standard leader mini for the unit with none of the special abilities of the dead mini.

9 hours ago, Mace Windu said:

So just to clarify, you are perfectly happy with this situation:

Squad of Death troopers in identical situations where the heavy is the only visible mini in the unit from the attacker.

The squad takes a wound, if it’s the DLT 19 Heavy its removed from the board permanently.

But if its DT F16 that takes the hit then the player gets to replace one of the standard minis in the squad with DT F16 and keep his gun and ability on the board?

That makes zero sense rules wise, both minis are heavy troopers, both were the only eligible target for the attack to take damage but just because one is a leader type mini you get to keep him magically?

Even if the rules do allow it, you have to admit thematically its a huge fail from FFG.

I really don't see why in the instance of a unique character that is a leader being killed they aren't just replaced with the standard leader mini for the unit with none of the special abilities of the dead mini.

Yeah, I'm fine with it, all unit leaders are being treated exactly the same. What is the purpose of the Leader keyword AT ALL if not to protect the model until the very end? The keyword shouldn't even exist if it isn't going to cause the the model being treated the exact same way as the normal unit leader. Also, just so you are aware, DT-F16 is female, and was featured on an episode of Rebels.

Besides, Star Wars isn't realistic, it's a series of movies and other media. How often in movies do we see characters narrowly escape death, only to have some nameless character die instead? Or a shot in the film where we THINK the character died, but it was actually someone who looks a lot like them from behind? So it's not even a thematic fail from FFG, that's perfectly in keeping with the way Star Wars movies and books (typically) handle important characters. So it makes sense that a named character we see survive to almost the end of the episode in situations where other Death Troopers and Stormtroopers are not so lucky, should be the last model removed from the unit.

9 hours ago, Mace Windu said:

So just to clarify, you are perfectly happy with this situation:

Squad of Death troopers in identical situations where the heavy is the only visible mini in the unit from the attacker.

The squad takes a wound, if it’s the DLT 19 Heavy its removed from the board permanently.

But if its DT F16 that takes the hit then the player gets to replace one of the standard minis in the squad with DT F16 and keep his gun and ability on the board?

That makes zero sense rules wise, both minis are heavy troopers, both were the only eligible target for the attack to take damage but just because one is a leader type mini you get to keep him magically?

Even if the rules do allow it, you have to admit thematically its a huge fail from FFG.

I really don't see why in the instance of a unique character that is a leader being killed they aren't just replaced with the standard leader mini for the unit with none of the special abilities of the dead mini.

Yes that exactly how the rules work. The until leader is ALWAYS the last model to be removed regardless of whether they are the standard unit leader or a heavy weapon upgrade that replaces the unit leader.

We have never had a situation where the leader has a different health value then the rest of the squad though, so I was curious what peoples thoughts/speculations where on some of the interactions that would create. I'm sure we will get an official answer before the arcs are released or possible this week during the streams

So what happens if Vader say chokes the Rebel Officer Upgrade out of a Rebel Trooper squad? I would assume in that case, another unit is promoted to Leader but you lose the courage bonus and inspire 1 off of the unit because the mini that gave those bonuses is dead.

If that is the case, then when Fives is sniped out of a unit surely the same thing would take place?

If not then I'd assume another mini dies in an instance where Fives would die, and he remains on 1 HP, like with Sniper Strike Teams.

7 minutes ago, Nithorian said:

So what happens if Vader say chokes the Rebel Officer Upgrade out of a Rebel Trooper squad? I would assume in that case, another unit is promoted to Leader but you lose the courage bonus and inspire 1 off of the unit because the mini that gave those bonuses is dead.

Another model in the unit is replaced with the Rebel Officer. You do not lose any of the Rebel Officer's abilities.

The only question we have is how much health will Fives/Hask/Ursa have after replacing another model in the unit if they are sniped out while in a single wound unit. I am assuming one, but we just don't have an official answer yet.

3 minutes ago, Lochlan said:

Another model in the unit is replaced with the Rebel Officer. You do not lose any of the Rebel Officer's abilities.

The only question we have is how much health will Fives/Hask/Ursa have after replacing another model in the unit if they are sniped out while in a single wound unit. I am assuming one, but we just don't have an official answer yet.

Well the logical answer would be just to treat it like a Sniper Strike Team in that case. If there in an instance where the Leader is the only viable option, he doesn't die, the other guy dies instead, I'd view like that, rather than see it as that other unit replacing Fives and gaining a magical Wound back out of no where.

18 minutes ago, lunitic501 said:

Yes that exactly how the rules work. The until leader is ALWAYS the last model to be removed regardless of whether they are the standard unit leader or a heavy weapon upgrade that replaces the unit leader.

We have never had a situation where the leader has a different health value then the rest of the squad though, so I was curious what peoples thoughts/speculations where on some of the interactions that would create. I'm sure we will get an official answer before the arcs are released or possible this week during the streams

I wouldn't be so sure about that. The official rules for how to treat armament and crew upgrades weren't added for a few months until after the upgrade type was added, and according to the wording on Repair/Heal, you can't return a Counterpart model that has a lower Heath value than the unit it gets attached to, since you check the unit card, not the counterpart card.

6 minutes ago, Nithorian said:

So what happens if Vader say chokes the Rebel Officer Upgrade out of a Rebel Trooper squad? I would assume in that case, another unit is promoted to Leader but you lose the courage bonus and inspire 1 off of the unit because the mini that gave those bonuses is dead.

If that is the case, then when Fives is sniped out of a unit surely the same thing would take place?

If not then I'd assume another mini dies in an instance where Fives would die, and he remains on 1 HP, like with Sniper Strike Teams.

If the model removed due to Force Choke or other game states (terrain sniping) has the Leader keyword, then the following rule from page 50 applies: "If a unit leader that was added by an upgrade card with the leader keyword is defeated, replace one of the remaining minis in the unit with the leader mini from that upgrade card." So long as the model from the upgrade card is in the unit, you have all the benefits of the upgrade card.

2 minutes ago, Lochlan said:

Another model in the unit is replaced with the Rebel Officer. You do not lose any of the Rebel Officer's abilities.

The only question we have is how much health will Fives/Hask/Ursa have after replacing another model in the unit if they are sniped out while in a single wound unit. I am assuming one, but we just don't have an official answer yet.

I don't see why this wouldn't be the same as any other time a multi-wound unit leader replaces another model in the unit. The model would not keep the wound tokens that are assigned to it when it was defeated. As a model is only defeated when a number of wound tokens is assigned to it equal to the model's Health value, keeping the wound tokens on the model causes a chain reaction defeating the entire unit.

In a game where all distances are measured on a flat plane, I wouldn't be surprised if the rules work the same for additional health leaders as they do for every other leader, and the replaced model doesn't get a wound token (meaning it still has 2 health).

1 minute ago, Nithorian said:

Well the logical answer would be just to treat it like a Sniper Strike Team in that case. If there in an instance where the Leader is the only viable option, he doesn't die, the other guy dies instead, I'd view like that, rather than see it as that other unit replacing Fives and gaining a magical Wound back out of no where.

That's not how strike teams work. You remove the sniper model, then replace the "spotter" model with the sniper's model in the exact same position.

2 minutes ago, Caimheul1313 said:

That's not how strike teams work. You remove the sniper model, then replace the "spotter" model with the sniper's model in the exact same position.

Sorry I worded that poorly, I am aware you put the sniper behind the total cover if he dies, but he is still the unit leader, and I always viewed it as he is the same guy, it is the spotter that dies, because no where else in the game is it possible to pick up fallen squad mates weapon.

1 minute ago, Nithorian said:

Well the logical answer would be just to treat it like a Sniper Strike Team in that case. If there in an instance where the Leader is the only viable option, he doesn't die, the other guy dies instead, I'd view like that, rather than see it as that other unit replacing Fives and gaining a magical Wound back out of no where.

If the unit leader is the only model capable of taking a wound in a strike team, it still takes the wound. As @Caimheul1313 said, the extra model is replaced with the unit leader.

I also don't really understand the extreme disconnect people seem to have with this rule. How is this any weirder than Guardian? A model a whole 6" away that doesn't even have to be in line of sight to the attacker can take a wound instead? This rule is essentially a compulsory Esteemed Leader for just the unit, but with ranges that actually make sense.

There really isn’t a disconnect, people are getting frustrated because in this instance they cant snipe the heavy out of the squad.

1 hour ago, Shadowhawk252 said:

There really isn’t a disconnect, people are getting frustrated because in this instance they cant snipe the heavy out of the squad.

But that's the way it's been since the beginning of the game (snipers were announced a couple months after release)