Range 2 is really going to hurt this unit, even with movement 3, because there just are too many threats for such a low wound unit at range 2. I mean fleets aren't used for a lot of reasons, but Dewbacks came in and made them completely useless. If you are in range with Fleets to shoot a Dewback, he is in range to charge you, and the chances of you one shoting him are a lot lower than the chances of him one shoting you, and that was in a unit with a lot higher dice pool and wounds than this unit.

Yes they are much stronger in melee than Fleets are, but if the unit isn't wiped out on the initial charge, at least some of the unit should be dead, so the dice you are throwing back at it, are much lower than what it gets to throw at you.

I suppose with Jump 2 and movement 3, this unit can pretty much be where ever it wants to be on the battlefield and set the terms of the engagement. But it has so few options outside of range 2, that I just don't see them being a very effective offensive unit. The prominence of range 4 means this unit is going to get shot at a lot more often than it gets to shoot back, and it isn't even immune to pierce, so there is a good chance snipers can pick off very expensive models quite easily, if the Impervious roll doesn't come up with a double block.

To me I've just seen red defence die fail too many times to rely too much on it, and this unit seems to be designed around the idea that their armour will absorb most of the incoming damage, while they dart around the battlefield wrecking havoc, and I just don't see it working that way in practice. This unit is also really terrain dependant, it requires lots of high up pieces it can land on to take full advantage of its movement.

Edit -

Just noticed that Clan Wren isn't a 3 person unit, it is a "Strike Team", it lists that the unit only has 1 model in it, and requires one of the named Clan Wren upgrades. So even with 2 wounds it is only a 2 person unit. It seems designed as a way to get Ursa and Tristan, as minor heroes on the board without taking up a commander or operative slot.

36 minutes ago, Nithorian said:

Edit -

Just noticed that Clan Wren isn't a 3 person unit, it is a "Strike Team", it lists that the unit only has 1 model in it, and requires one of the named Clan Wren upgrades. So even with 2 wounds it is only a 2 person unit. It seems designed as a way to get Ursa and Tristan, as minor heroes on the board without taking up a commander or operative slot.

It requires both named Clan Wren upgrades I think.

5 minutes ago, bernh said:

It requires both named Clan Wren upgrades I think.

Ah Yes, just spotted the double heavy weapon upgrade on the side.

9 hours ago, buckero0 said:

I don't think 4 red dice at range 3-4 with impact and blast is bad for 8pts compared to the other impact weapons available for Rebels. There are more tanks prevalent nowdays and AtRt clones will make a showing soon

I actually think Bistan and Ion Trooper are significantly better overall. It’s funny how we forget ion troopers rolling 2 red at range 3 exist. There is a reason they are forgotten and I think these jet packs will be left gathering dust as well.

2 hours ago, bernh said:

I hope for helmetless heads for Ursa and Tristan.
In article mentioned that you can assemble duelist mini with pistol instead of saber (why?) and adjust height of every flying mini.

You get 3 flight stands, 2 helmets/bare heads and extra 3 - 5 arms with pistols.

That's your customization

2 hours ago, Nithorian said:

Range 2 is really going to hurt this unit, even with movement 3, because there just are too many threats for such a low wound unit at range 2. I mean fleets aren't used for a lot of reasons, but Dewbacks came in and made them completely useless. If you are in range with Fleets to shoot a Dewback, he is in range to charge you, and the chances of you one shoting him are a lot lower than the chances of him one shoting you, and that was in a unit with a lot higher dice pool and wounds than this unit.

Yes they are much stronger in melee than Fleets are, but if the unit isn't wiped out on the initial charge, at least some of the unit should be dead, so the dice you are throwing back at it, are much lower than what it gets to throw at you.

I suppose with Jump 2 and movement 3, this unit can pretty much be where ever it wants to be on the battlefield and set the terms of the engagement. But it has so few options outside of range 2, that I just don't see them being a very effective offensive unit. The prominence of range 4 means this unit is going to get shot at a lot more often than it gets to shoot back, and it isn't even immune to pierce, so there is a good chance snipers can pick off very expensive models quite easily, if the Impervious roll doesn't come up with a double block.

To me I've just seen red defence die fail too many times to rely too much on it, and this unit seems to be designed around the idea that their armour will absorb most of the incoming damage, while they dart around the battlefield wrecking havoc, and I just don't see it working that way in practice. This unit is also really terrain dependant, it requires lots of high up pieces it can land on to take full advantage of its movement.

Edit -

Just noticed that Clan Wren isn't a 3 person unit, it is a "Strike Team", it lists that the unit only has 1 model in it, and requires one of the named Clan Wren upgrades. So even with 2 wounds it is only a 2 person unit. It seems designed as a way to get Ursa and Tristan, as minor heroes on the board without taking up a commander or operative slot.

Fleets aren't useless because another useless unit, the dewback, is in the game. Taun Tauns are infinitely more damaging to the viability of fleets than dewbacks could ever hope to be. Fleets are bad because they are a courage 1 unit with range 2 guns. 5 models with a heavy, speed 2, and white saves. Clan Wren is much better because they have jump 2 which means they can just sit behind a LoS blocking piece of terrain and jump out and blast something. If you are trying to play them like a unit that sits in the open and try to charge across fields of fire of course they won't be very effective. I for one am very excited for Clan Wren because jump 2, speed 3, 6 wounds, double surge, and impervious sounds like a beast of a unit to me. You can bring Sabine for the retinue and feed them aims when they are behind a LoS blocker and when they pop out they can use that aim for lethal or longshot. Then give them a dodge that next round when they are exposed and if you brought situational awareness now you have mandos that can dodge crits with nimble.

23 minutes ago, buckero0 said:

You get 3 flight stands, 2 helmets/bare heads and extra 3 - 5 arms with pistols.

That's your customization

Which is about the same as every other kit with customization we've had so far to be fair.

26 minutes ago, Caimheul1313 said:

Which is about the same as every other kit with customization we've had so far to be fair.

yeah, I was just saying, there's usually just a couple of head swaps and arm swaps. I bought an extra Sabine on the cheap a couple of months ago and I have an extra Boba I've been holding on to just to convert with these when they were announced. It doesn't look like there will be much to do as there's not really that many different options once you have Ursa and Tristan. I guess having an extra Duelist might not be bad, just if you ever wanted to run 2 generic squads

34 minutes ago, SnooSnarry said:

Fleets aren't useless because another useless unit, the dewback, is in the game. Taun Tauns are infinitely more damaging to the viability of fleets than dewbacks could ever hope to be. Fleets are bad because they are a courage 1 unit with range 2 guns. 5 models with a heavy, speed 2, and white saves. Clan Wren is much better because they have jump 2 which means they can just sit behind a LoS blocking piece of terrain and jump out and blast something. If you are trying to play them like a unit that sits in the open and try to charge across fields of fire of course they won't be very effective. I for one am very excited for Clan Wren because jump 2, speed 3, 6 wounds, double surge, and impervious sounds like a beast of a unit to me. You can bring Sabine for the retinue and feed them aims when they are behind a LoS blocker and when they pop out they can use that aim for lethal or longshot. Then give them a dodge that next round when they are exposed and if you brought situational awareness now you have mandos that can dodge crits with nimble.

yeah, I just think you're going to have to pick and choose when you get to use that Lethal and Long-shot or if you get to use them at all. Most of the time, I feel the better play is for the Dodge and try to get them in range 2. Tristan should have had at least 1 white die (maybe 2) added to his gun.

The comparisons to Wookiees are fair. I've had as much success with multiple Wookiee units and decent amount of terrain. They have the Expert Climber, Unhindered, Charge which is very manageable to get into combat turn 2-3. They have reverse stats (range vs melee)

11 minutes ago, buckero0 said:

yeah, I was just saying, there's usually just a couple of head swaps and arm swaps. I bought an extra Sabine on the cheap a couple of months ago and I have an extra Boba I've been holding on to just to convert with these when they were announced. It doesn't look like there will be much to do as there's not really that many different options once you have Ursa and Tristan. I guess having an extra Duelist might not be bad, just if you ever wanted to run 2 generic squads

I wasn't sure, the extra options have been nice, and at least I think the hard plastic takes to shaving, cutting, reposing, or replacing better than the soft plastic. I also think the duelist can be modeled fairly easily by just adding a sword of some description onto the waist of a pistol armed model.

Unfortunately, buying two boxes does leave you with an entire spare squad that can't be fielded in standard play outside of Grand Army or house rules.

Just now, Caimheul1313 said:

I want sure, the extra options have been nice, and at least I think the hard plastic takes to shaving, cutting, reposing, or replacing better than the soft plastic. I also think the duelist can be modeled fairly easily by just adding a sword of some description onto the waist of a pistol armed model.

Unfortunately, buying two boxes does leave you with an entire spare squad that can't be fielded in standard play outside of Grand Army or house rules.

Yeah, I was really stoked for these, but I think I'll get one box and be done. I think they'll be really good some games, and relatively "blah" other games. Their defense is really good, but their offense is pretty "meh"

On the positive, they will be one more really good objective capture unit. Too bad they can't take the hostage. I think the most useful thing they could have done would have been "one of your Mandalorian Resistance / Clan Wren units counts as Corps when building your list. With Rebels, having close to useless corps irks me to no end.

and before everyone jumps on me, "Yes" I've tried every combination of Corps units and upgrades. They are a millstone compared to Shoretroopers and their mortar spam, Clone troopers and even compared to Battle Droids. That is my opinion. 40pts (120pts)of Corps that hide the entire game and try to run and capture something is not a fun way to play IMO, but it is really the only competitive or effective use of the points. Vets are too expensive and too fragile to put points into and their canon is too short range to be worth taking. Fleets are terrible, except for conversion fodder.

21 minutes ago, buckero0 said:

Yeah, I was really stoked for these, but I think I'll get one box and be done. I think they'll be really good some games, and relatively "blah" other games. Their defense is really good, but their offense is pretty "meh"

On the positive, they will be one more really good objective capture unit. Too bad they can't take the hostage. I think the most useful thing they could have done would have been "one of your Mandalorian Resistance / Clan Wren units counts as Corps when building your list. With Rebels, having close to useless corps irks me to no end.

and before everyone jumps on me, "Yes" I've tried every combination of Corps units and upgrades. They are a millstone compared to Shoretroopers and their mortar spam, Clone troopers and even compared to Battle Droids. That is my opinion. 40pts (120pts)of Corps that hide the entire game and try to run and capture something is not a fun way to play IMO, but it is really the only competitive or effective use of the points. Vets are too expensive and too fragile to put points into and their canon is too short range to be worth taking. Fleets are terrible, except for conversion fodder.

The reduction to speed 1 (EDIT: Speed 2) would slightly hamper the unit if they could take the hostage to be honest. Although they do make for a very good hostage pursuit squad, and would probably be pretty good in Skirmish owing to the smaller board size.

I think Clan Wren is probably the better way to run them, with Sabine. I could see playing some custom scenario games locally where the Rebel side is entirely Mandalorians, using Sabine as the Commander, or with a custom cards to field Ursa Wren and Tristan Wren as their own units. Not as helpful for organized play, I know, but there can be a lot of value in purely fun games.

11 minutes ago, Caimheul1313 said:

The reduction to speed 1 would really hamper the unit if they could take the hostage to be honest.

The Hostage actually reduces speed by 1 (to a minimum of 1), so they would still be speed 2.

1 minute ago, Lochlan said:

The Hostage actually reduces speed by 1 (to a minimum of 1), so they would still be speed 2.

Thank you for the reminder, I have only had a single chance to play hostages, will update my post. It does still hamper their movement, but significantly less than I thought. So I still posit they make for a pretty good hostage retrieval/hunting squad.

22 minutes ago, Caimheul1313 said:

I think Clan Wren is probably the better way to run them, with Sabine. I could see playing some custom scenario games locally where the Rebel side is entirely Mandalorians, using Sabine as the Commander, or with a custom cards to field Ursa Wren and Tristan Wren as their own units. Not as helpful for organized play, I know, but there can be a lot of value in purely fun games.

The more I was thinking about these, man it would be cool if they released a "neutral" command card for Mandalorians. I guess Sabine has one already, but additional or different command cards could have really spruced this release up. The Clan Wren squad is essentially a character type of squad. It just has rules going all over the place that are in-congruent. A command card would have made a once per game they the whole unit gets Long-shot or Lethal or all Mandolorians gain Hunter for this turn or something.

I will try the Mando unit with just Ursa just to see if I can pull off a (sort of ) cheaper range 2 smash type unit. 7B1R1W. I wish they had got sharpshooter 1 or the whole unit got lethal or some sort of pierce (equivalent of pierce 1 not stacking)

I think my Clan Wren unit will be :

Ursa, Tristan, OFF Push and Recon Intel for 116 . I think the HQ uplink would be good but maybe too expensive.

My Resistance unit I'll try first will be similar :

Beskad Duelist, Off Push, Recon Intel, Rockets for 114

Here is a costly but interesting idea.

Run Clan Wren as naked as you can along side Sabine with Electrobinoculars. They gain 1 Aim from being near her, and then she gives them another aim by taping electrobinoculars if you can get enough activation control to get Sabine before them. Then move Sabine up and recover. Next when it is their turn, move them up 3 to be near to Sabine, if they are in range 3 of anything, you now have 2 aim tokens, so spend one to give Ursa range 3, and another to give Tristan pierce. Repeat until they are in range 2 and Sabine and the Clan Wren unit are all able to fire freely.

Just an idea of a reason to keep them with Sabine while advancing together to get that range 2.

3 minutes ago, Nithorian said:

Here is a costly but interesting idea.

Run Clan Wren as naked as you can along side Sabine with Electrobinoculars. They gain 1 Aim from being near her, and then she gives them another aim by taping electrobinoculars if you can get activation control. Then move Sabine up and recover. Next when it is their turn, move them up 3 to be near to Sabine, if they are in range 3 of anything, you now have 2 aim tokens, so spend one to give Ursa range 3, and another to give Tristan pierce. Repeat until they are in range 2 and Sabine and the Clan Wren unit are all able to fire freely.

Just an idea of a reason to keep them with Sabine while advancing together to get that range 2.

Electrobinoculars give the Spotter action. They don't exhaust to give an aim for free.

3 minutes ago, Lochlan said:

Electrobinoculars give the Spotter action. They don't exhaust to give an aim for free.

Still a way to get 2 aim on a unit that is super hungry for Aim tokens, even if you only get to do it for one round, only other option is more costly, and that is to run the basic Mandalorian unit with them as well (also with electrobinoculars), so you get 2 turns of range 3 fire, before all 3 Mando units bare down on you at range 2.

11 minutes ago, Nithorian said:

Run Clan Wren as naked as you can along side Sabine with Electrobinoculars. They gain 1 Aim from being near her, and then she gives them another aim by taping electrobinoculars if you can get enough activation control to get Sabine before them. Then move Sabine up and recover.

How is Sabine using Spotter, Move, and Recover in one activation?

4 minutes ago, Nithorian said:

Still a way to get 2 aim on a unit that is super hungry for Aim tokens, even if you only get to do it for one round, only other option is more costly, and that is to run the basic Mandalorian unit with them as well (also with electrobinoculars), so you get 2 turns of range 3 fire, before all 3 Mando units bare down on you at range 2.

Sure it's "a way," that involves using a precious action from your expensive, effective Operative (or an equally expensive SF unit). Units only get 12 actions per game, and ones like that need every action they can get for themselves. Electrobinoculars are only worth it when you're using Spotter anyway or you don't have anything else to do (Krennic).

7 minutes ago, Nithorian said:

Still a way to get 2 aim on a unit that is super hungry for Aim tokens, even if you only get to do it for one round, only other option is more costly, and that is to run the basic Mandalorian unit with them as well (also with electrobinoculars), so you get 2 turns of range 3 fire, before all 3 Mando units bare down on you at range 2.

I feel like you might not understand what Spotter does. It lets you spend an action to give a different unit an aim token. Putting Electrobinoculars on a unit that wants to get aims does absolutely nothing for that unit.

So Sabine could use EB to give the Mandos an aim, though I would never put EB on Sabine. She is super action hungry, and also already has a lot of competition for her gear slots. Rebel Troopers or a Rebel Officer are probably the only units I would put EB on. Maybe Leia?

Re: Electrobinoculars. I only ever use them to boost Veers’ existing Spotter. I don’t think Rebels have a great unit for them, much less one that can keep up with the Mandos.

Re: Mandalorian Resistance. With a base cost of 24 points per model and only one hit point per model, this unit will need as much protection as it can get. Even with red surge defense saves and Impervious, I’m going to want to keep them in heavy cover with dodge tokens and Situational Awareness. I think they can be great, but depend on terrain too much to be top-tier.

Re: Clan Wren. Each model in this unit can fire a different weapon, which means you can either focus fire so you only deal with cover once, or spread it out and give your opponent up to four suppression tokens. I think knowing when to split fire and when not to split fire will be key in using this unit properly.

1 hour ago, GooeyChewie said:

Re: Clan Wren. Each model in this unit can fire a different weapon, which means you can either focus fire so you only deal with cover once, or spread it out and give your opponent up to four suppression tokens. I think knowing when to split fire and when not to split fire will be key in using this unit properly.

Not a bad idea. Will have to remember that one.

Not super keen on this new unit. Seems a lot of their ability is incumbent on them having lots of aims/dodges. I just don't see how the faction can optimize that.

Not overly liking them myself either. Too much overlap with Wookies.

That said, what are people's thoughts on using them with Han's 2 pip? Maybe with HQ Uplink on R2D2 or with Clan Wren and Sabine to pass the dodge. Situational awareness and heavy cover. Unit would be hard to put down and the rest of your force can basically have free reign on the board.