This is a fringe problem, but I wonder what is to be done?

I think the Ghost is the biggest offender.

YV-666 has a nice budget option, it’s not seen often tho.... same with Lando’s Falcon.

But I don’t believe I have seen ONCE a shuttle in the ghost! Obviously they whacked the attack shuttle combo hard with the Nerf bat, and Sheathipede is just more efficient coordinating by itself.

Is it possible to lower shuttle cost only if the mothership is also in the squad?

A title that reduces cost but states you must start docked and can only deploy via emergency deployment?

These would keep hyper efficient shuttles out of squads otherwise... 🤷‍♂️

Lando's falcon has a lot of design issues. The shuttle can deploy out the rear!!!

I don't know that this is actually something we want, but you could rule that ships in reserve and their equipped upgrades can resolve their abilities if they're docked to a carrier not in reserves. I've thought about that before, but I don't know if it's healthy or achieves its primary goal.

Make some of the shuttles a hair cheaper, perhaps?

The double arc and white coordinate are pretty good, so we can't make them too cheap. AP-5 is the star of the Sheathipede, so keep his price the same, but you could drop Zeb's price to match AP-5 or a point lower, and I don't think it would hurt anything. Ezra could drop two-ish points; without R3-A2 Stressbot, he just hasn't been a strong element in 2nd Edition. Likewise with Fenn, drop him a few points, but you won't be docking him, let's not kid ourselves.

The Attack Shuttle probably shouldn't drop in price on any of the pilots, so that likely isn't an option. 32 point Zeb is a bargain for a 3 die gun. Ezra at 40 okay, Sabine at 41 is okay, and Hera at 38 is a pseudo-Duchess at 4 points cheaper.

15 hours ago, svelok said:

Lando's falcon has a lot of design issues. The shuttle can deploy out the rear!!!

I'd actually be fine with a new generic title, that only allows deploying from the front and none of other shared shields and stress extra dice benefit. Just be able to dock and have the Escape Craft Copilot ability. As it is you cannot dock an EC without the Lando title, and that seems a little silly.

How about we allow a ship to make a bonus turret attack at the end of the turn?

45 minutes ago, 5050Saint said:

Make some of the shuttles a hair cheaper, perhaps?

Not a terrible idea, but it doesn't necessarily get them docked. That's the issue. There's very little reason for a ship to be docked, instead of deployed where it can attack, outside of Epic where you're using a Gozanti or Corvus or whatever to protect fragile alpha-strike ships. That's not currently a good plan in 200/6, and it never should be.

17 hours ago, JBFancourt said:

But I don’t believe I have seen ONCE a shuttle in the ghost! Obviously they whacked the attack shuttle combo hard with the Nerf bat, and Sheathipede is just more efficient coordinating by itself.

While the thematics are nice, docked shuttle seem like they'll only work if we're dealing with the kind of wombo-combo card-game stuff that's rather unpopular.

Before the Composure errata, I'd toyed some with a docked AP-5 on Composure Hera, partnering a Passive Sensors ship, to ensure that the Coordinate will fail, so Hera gets a pre-move white Focus. Not worth it now, due to Composure being fixed (not nerfed! this was a fix that restored the card to it's original imtent!), but if stuff like this worked, I'm sure we wouldn't like it if it was good.

I think I'm mostly OK with shuttle docking mostly being left out of 200/6, except where folks want to go hard on theme.

4 hours ago, theBitterFig said:

Not worth it now, due to Composure being fixed (not nerfed! this was a fix that restored the card to it's original imtent!)

I mean, by its wording, it's pretty clear composure was intended as a way for ships that get access to free repositions to pivot them into token stacking.

Not even close.

To get the shuttles docked with The Ghost the shuttle pilot's ability and shields and hull and crew should count for the Ghost in addition to gaining the docked shuttle bonus from the titles. It should then lose the ability to undock.

Additional Ghost fixes.

Reduce Attack to 3 die.

Give Hera pilot the additional ability of Hera crew. Do not allow the ship to take any other maneuver difficulty changing or revealed maneuver changing upgrades.

@theBitterFig @Frimmel @5050Saint

What about if they would put out in a future pilots pack a limited generic for the two rebel shuttles modeled after the Nashta Pup?

I love it’s wording and game design space. Can’t spam it. Same wording as Pup, but with appropriate shuttle’s ship ability.

Obviously cleaned up for the purpose, but same concept.

Say 15 points?

@theBitterFig I get it from context, but what’s the exact definition of 200/6? Where’d that come from?

200 total points. 6 total obstacles. Standard play from 1.0

8 minutes ago, JBFancourt said:

@theBitterFig @Frimmel @5050Saint

What about if they would put out in a future pilots pack a limited generic for the two rebel shuttles modeled after the Nashta Pup?

I love it’s wording and game design space. Can’t spam it. Same wording as Pup, but with appropriate shuttle’s ship ability.

Obviously cleaned up for the purpose, but same concept.

Say 15 points?

Yeah, more of those pups doing emergency deployments would be sweet.

6 minutes ago, JBFancourt said:

@theBitterFig I get it from context, but what’s the exact definition of 200/6? Where’d that come from?

Mostly I recall folks in 1e talking about 100/6--100 points each, with 6 obstacles on the table. Standard format. I don't know if there was much more to it than that.

1 hour ago, JBFancourt said:

@theBitterFig @Frimmel @5050Saint

What about if they would put out in a future pilots pack a limited generic for the two rebel shuttles modeled after the Nashta Pup?

I love it’s wording and game design space. Can’t spam it. Same wording as Pup, but with appropriate shuttle’s ship ability.

Obviously cleaned up for the purpose, but same concept.

Say 15 points?

I think that would go against the flavor of the Ghost shuttles at least. The mothership does not get a big enough benefit for the points cost of the shuttle. Reducing the costs of the shuttles without a they stay docked rule probably wouldn't change anything.

The shuttles point out the need for other ways to get points where there could be more tactical benefit to being docked. Also the VCX just got shorted in the move to second edition and thus so did the shuttles and docking. There isn't a simple fix in my opinion.

1 hour ago, Frimmel said:

I think that would go against the flavor of the Ghost shuttles at least. The mothership does not get a big enough benefit for the points cost of the shuttle. Reducing the costs of the shuttles without a they stay docked rule probably wouldn't change anything.

The shuttles point out the need for other ways to get points where there could be more tactical benefit to being docked. Also the VCX just got shorted in the move to second edition and thus so did the shuttles and docking. There isn't a simple fix in my opinion.

The pup DOES have a stay docked rule.... maybe I’m missing your point 🤔

8 minutes ago, JBFancourt said:

The pup DOES have a stay docked rule.... maybe I’m missing your point 🤔

I may be missing yours. I may not be making my point.

A squad just does not get enough out of docking especially the shuttle/VCX pairs. Until there is a change docking will not be much of a thing. More things like Lando's Falcon title and the escape craft co-pilot ability is what I am driving at.

25 minutes ago, Frimmel said:

I may be missing yours. I may not be making my point.

A squad just does not get enough out of docking especially the shuttle/VCX pairs. Until there is a change docking will not be much of a thing. More things like Lando's Falcon title and the escape craft co-pilot ability is what I am driving at.

Gotcha 👍

Yeah, I agree....

I just went another route in my head: if the VCX got a rear arc and either a free coordinate or extra turret attack from a generic docked shuttle for 15 points, I think it would sell.

Add the Pup restrictions of starting docked and can’t undock so people don’t get a super cheap gun or coordinating munchkin.

Perhaps adding "While you have a friendly ship docked, you may treat its Crew upgrades as if they were on your ship card." to docking rules would help a little? It'd mean keeping your shuttles docked to the VCX/YT-1300 would give them a "third" crew slot, and it seems like it'd make sense that while the ship is docked, the docked ship's crew could benefit the carrier ship.

Another idea: "During the end phase, you may repair one Damage card and recover one charge on a Missile, Torpedo or Device upgrade on your docked ship.", either as a crew upgrade or addition to docking rules. Possibly with charges to limit how much you can use it? Maybe it wouldn't be enough, but it would add a bit more value to docking mid-game, for example the Ghost repairing a damaged Sabine Attack Shuttle or the Hound's Tooth reloading missiles for Z-95 Bossk.

17 hours ago, theBitterFig said:

There's very little reason for a ship to be docked, instead of deployed where it can attack, outside of Epic where you're using a Gozanti or Corvus or whatever to protect fragile alpha-strike ships. That's not currently a good plan in 200/6, and it never should be.

I have fielded a jank variant for casual play, typical Scum jank trick. Moralo with Hounds Tooth. Z95 Bossk with Cluster Missiles. Start docked.

Moralo locks and flies off the board. Reappears behind the enemy, Bossk deploys in Systems Phase and via "Pursuit Craft" acquires Target Lock on same ship. Can shoot Clusters twice (one at the target, one at someone else), or if Bossk waits to next tound, he shoots twice with one double modded.

It costs a lot of points (rightly so), so it is not really worth it, esp. if the opponent realises what you aim to do.

When they first showed the Bossk Z-95 I was secretly hoping that they would errata the others to add the Pursuit Craft ability, because it would give a bit more reason to actually dock them.

Currently AP-5 is the cheapest I5 coordinate available in the game. It depends on you taking Hera, but it doesn't seem like a losing proposition to me. Using the dock to improve the initiative of the coordinate action is a pretty decent option, but it definitely isn't the best use of the docking mechanism.

As stated above, the main point of docking is to ensure your endgame piece can make it to the endgame by shielding it behind a boatload of hit points. In order to be worth the foregone blocks/actions/attacks it has to be a pretty good endgame piece, and none of the current Phantoms/Z-95s/Escape Crafts really cut it there. At least the Nashtah Pup and Autopilot Drone are cheap enough to be sometimes worth it for their secondary function (extra shields/preserving points).

So how could we make an endgame Phantom? It doesn't seem horribly likely. The best Attack Shuttle I've seen for endgame purposes is the super-jank Ezra/Cassian/Sense/Dorsal that can always move and barrel roll with perfect information to dodge or block. It only really works in a 1-on-1 endgame though and you'll have a hard time manufacturing that scenario with a VCX and docked Ezra taking up more than half of your list. Autoblaster Turret/EU Heragator used to be kind of promising and she is the cheapest now, but the poor mobility of the Attack Shuttle and inability to take Engine Upgrade in 2.0 makes it pretty much a non-starter, and that's before considering the nerf to navigator. Fenn is I6 and could theoretically points-fortress by using regen and attack nerfs to try to stay alive but that seems like way too much of a points-sink for what it's worth anyway.

Hmmm.