It has a place in the game, but I can see why people want it to be tightly controlled. It could be beneficial on the 4 medium and large ships in the game that can take the evade action. It's a fair tradeoff for them, and if priced low on already expensive chassis gives them a bit more playability. None of these 4 ships are tearing up the meta, but a 2-3 point cost could give them a bit extra oomph.

YT-1300

TIE Reaper

IG Aggressors

Lancer-Class Pursuit Craft

Apart from that, price it by agility, higher costs more, it makes the most sense there to balance.

Just my Friday two cents, cheers

I'm not sure that it would actually be busted on any of the medium/large ships, but the small ship restriction seems to stem more from fluff.

In terms of differential pricing, any change would have to keep it expensive on Full Throttle ships and phantoms instead of basing on agility.

55 minutes ago, Cloaker said:

It has a place in the game

Does it though?

I would not put Juke on Han for a single point even if the title was free

2 hours ago, Cloaker said:

on the 4 medium and large ships in the game that can take the evade action

This is Paige Tico erasure and I won't stand for it!

Also all the talented firesprays.

Death to Juke

1 hour ago, Des Darklighter said:

I'm not sure that it would actually be busted on any of the medium/large ships, but the small ship restriction seems to stem more from fluff.

In terms of differential pricing, any change would have to keep it expensive on Full Throttle ships and phantoms instead of basing on agility.

Juke is already available on medium ships, only large ships miss out. Any Rebel medium base ship can activate Juke with Jyn or Lando crew. I've used this combo before with triple Juke+PerCo U-Wings with Jyn.

1 hour ago, Ablazoned said:

This is Paige Tico erasure and I won't stand for it!

Also all the talented firesprays.

how do the firesprays get evades?

Just now, Cloaker said:

how do the firesprays get evades?

Iggy-D and Iggy-C, my man!

ah yeah, now I'm gonna fly that tomorrow.

38 minutes ago, Cloaker said:

ah yeah, now I'm gonna fly that tomorrow.

I take it back, panic! Burn all copies of Juke!

Juke should spend the Evade to use it. Makes it a risk to use it on higher Init ships and best on low. Stops Phantoms abusing it, except Whisper, who then becomes more vulnerable to incoming fire. Win-win.

Change my mind?

1 hour ago, Gilarius said:

Juke should spend the Evade to use it. Makes it a risk to use it on higher Init ships and best on low. Stops Phantoms abusing it, except Whisper, who then becomes more vulnerable to incoming fire. Win-win.

Change my mind?

It's slightly less problematic, but it's also now even more unusable on anything except defenders and naboos, and it still suffers from the "super gross if you can spam it effectively" problem.

I'd rather see a limited (or possibly even fully unique) talent that places restrictions on how the defender can mod defense dice--e.g. defender can only spend 1 green token to modify defense dice, and if defender is (in bullseye/outmaneuvered?) their defense dice (cannot otherwise be modified / can only mod 1 die)

Green dice are already bad and anything that messes with your opponent's green dice needs to be approached with extreme caution. Turning juke into something that specifically counters token stacks and passive mods seems like a good niche it could fill

Easy, make it unique.

Done.

What if they made you spend the Evade to cancel an evade?

12 hours ago, Archangelspiv said:

What if they made you spend the Evade to cancel an evade?

That might be the most balanced way to go about it. You must choose between your offense or defense. It's infinite crack shot, but it has a negative to doing it.

I worry though that anything with full-throttle out of arc, would be too strong. A flanking Whisper (since she gets an evade for hitting), Defender, or Ric Olie become intolerably strong.

4 hours ago, 5050Saint said:

You must choose between your offense or defense. It's infinite crack shot, but it has a negative to doing it.

And presumably, unlike crack shot, you can only cancel natties as opposed to modded results. Not a huge deal but it's a little thing.

4 hours ago, 5050Saint said:

worry though that anything with full-throttle out of arc, would be too strong. A flanking Whisper (since she gets an evade for hitting), Defender, or Ric Olie become intolerably strong.

Agreed. Even if this version of juke would be closer to fair, there's still no price point where it's both fair on rexler or whisper and not ludicrously overpriced for a phoenix.

8 hours ago, Ablazoned said:

Agreed. Even if this version of juke would be closer to fair, there's still no price point where it's both fair on rexler or whisper and not ludicrously overpriced for a phoenix.

Whisper is a problem design at the end of the day who heavily limits what can be in the game simply because they get too many free defensive resources. Defensive modding is way more dangerous than offensive, as we found out with the current meta choking the lifeblood out of anything that isn't super optimized to deal tons of damage really really fast. Whisper has been a super meta ship in the most consistesntly played list in the game's history and never has dropped below 20 in terms of their popularity as a pilot. It honestly might be fair to give them the Dash treatment as, at a certain point, infinite cloaking and defensive mods are just too limiting for anything interesting that could go on Whisper. Maybe, if you absolutely had to keep them at a usable points value, just removing all their slots as a nuclear option. Whisper is so ridiculous they STILL can play current priced Juke, and make cards that are just normally terrible value propositions for everyone else like Stealth Device work. "X is broken with Whisper" is far more a strike against Whisper than X at the moment.

I can see it being a bit spooky on full throttle ships, but not outrageously so. Presumably with Rexler you would need to evade again to get the benefit of his ability because you don't 'hit' till you spend your first evade, which means your electing not to take a focus and making your own attack inconsistent. It is more spooky due to being an infinite crack shot on those chasises. But consider that a free evade is basically 1 shield regen a turn anyway, and your giving that up to fire this off for 1 extra damage on a ship already doing a pretty high average. The main danger here is more that it is a free crack on turns your not being shot at, more than all the time, but its still really good. I think the fix is to just initiative scale it in this case: Remember that no Full Throttle I2 or I1 that can take a talent exists, so it is fully possible to price it at the RZ-A1 level there and at the Full throttle level at 3+!

I still think it just makes logical sense to assume Full Throttle ships take this card, and price it for Phoenix, than pricing this for full throttle though. Ultimately the idea that ships shouldn't have 'staple cards' is what helps hurt ships like the Rz-A1: It will never have better synergy with a card useful for it than some other ship.

13 minutes ago, dezzmont said:

I still think it just makes logical sense to assume Full Throttle ships take this card, and price it for Phoenix, than pricing this for full throttle though. Ultimately the idea that ships shouldn't have 'staple cards' is what helps hurt ships like the Rz-A1: It will never have better synergy with a card useful for it than some other ship.

I mean, you can restrict the card so that only a-wings could use it. Or make it synergize with something only a- wings do often. Something like:

Zealous. Talent.

After you perform a red boost action, you may spend 1 (recurring) charge.

While you perform a primary attack, you may recover 1 charge to roll 3 attack dice instead of your default attack value. If you do, you must change 1 result to a [eyeball].

If I had to make a new version of an "Evade powers offense" talent, I'd go with this: While you perform a primary attack, if you are evading, you may reroll 1 "focus" result. Let's call it " Jink ," a word with essentially the same meaning as Juke. Statistically speaking, Jink would be half the value of a calculate token, so around half the offense added of Juke (a 3-red ship with original Juke against tokenless 2 agility, and a 3-red ship with a calcualte against 2 unmodified greens do about the same damage). On a 2-red ship, Jink would be worse than half of what Juke offers.

I think there are two main benefits to , it's a buff to your own dice, rather than messing with an opponents, so it's never going to be as FeelsBadMan.

The other nice thing: Like 1e's Wired, it's really hard to combine with other forms of modification. Jink + Focus or Lock? Zero value added. Jink + Fifth Brother is a little more powerful, since you might be able to reroll your second focus result, but it's pretty small potatoes. Jink with Howlrunner or Drea or Sloane is likewise not great, because there are still quite few rolls where you'll be able to reroll more than a single die.

At this power level, it could probably be quite cheap, and it'd be a nifty little option for higher defense while still having some offense.

2 minutes ago, Ablazoned said:

I mean, you can restrict the card so that only a-wings could use it. Or make it synergize with something only a- wings do often. Something like:

Zealous. Talent.

After you perform a red boost action, you may spend 1 (recurring) charge.

While you perform a primary attack, you may recover 1 charge to roll 3 attack dice instead of your default attack value. If you do, you must change 1 result to a [eyeball].

um, HWKs with talent slots would cream over your example upgrade, and Moldy HWKs would laugh at the limitation of the mandatory result conversion...

1 minute ago, Hiemfire said:

um, HWKs with talent slots would cream over your example upgrade, and Moldy HWKs would laugh at the limitation of the mandatory result conversion...

They'll love it, yeah. Other than that...Poe with perma closed foils or tie int/sil with weapons failure?

3 minutes ago, Ablazoned said:

They'll love it, yeah. Other than that...Poe with perma closed foils or tie int/sil with weapons failure?

Ya.

9 minutes ago, theBitterFig said:

I think there are two main benefits to , it's a buff to your own dice, rather than messing with an opponents, so it's never going to be as FeelsBadMan.

This is honestly such a huge benefit it is worth the effect being minor. A half calculate on offensive if you don't use a defensive mod might be enough for the RZ-1A, especially as this could be diiiiiirt cheap.

I like it a lot!