While I'm stoked for battle droids to release. Is anyone else a little underwhelmed by the dioxis mines? I would have hoped for at least one red die on it considering poison wont trigger without an unsaved hit. Still, I love the art for it.

Oh I am hyped for these. Use 'em with vibro blades.

A unit with 5 red, 5 white, surge to hit attack dice that get a free melee attack after moving? They have scale and scout3 to get into place quickly... 10/10 gonna use BXs to hold enemy units hostage in melee then toss gas mines over objective points en masse.

Tabletop Admiral updated

18 minutes ago, werdnaegni said:

Tabletop Admiral updated

One more thing, strike team for BX is 20 not 22.

28 minutes ago, werdnaegni said:

Tabletop Admiral updated

You're doing god's work sir.

36 minutes ago, werdnaegni said:

Tabletop Admiral updated

Could we get the arc unit cards added?

Love the site keep up the good work!

6 hours ago, NetCop said:

One more thing, strike team for BX is 20 not 22.

Fixed

6 hours ago, Darth Sanguis said:

You're doing god's work sir.

I do as he commands?

5 hours ago, Tirion said:

Could we get the arc unit cards added?

Love the site keep up the good work!

No. Okay just kidding. Do you mean the Strike Team? I just added that image. The units have both been there for a while though. let me know if I'm missing something.

54 minutes ago, werdnaegni said:

Fixed

I do as he commands?

No. Okay just kidding. Do you mean the Strike Team? I just added that image. The units have both been there for a while though. let me know if I'm missing something.

Thanks I meant an updated not fuzzy image for the unit

9 hours ago, Darth Sanguis said:

Oh I am hyped for these. Use 'em with vibro blades.

A unit with 5 red, 5 white, surge to hit attack dice that get a free melee attack after moving? They have scale and scout3 to get into place quickly... 10/10 gonna use BXs to hold enemy units hostage in melee then toss gas mines over objective points en masse.

don't they only get surge to hit only if they use the mines?

10 minutes ago, TIE wing said:

don't they only get surge to hit only if they use the mines?

It's printed on the unit card, so they always surge to hit.

I'm underwhelmed in general of mines. They are poorly designed and very inconsistant. For once you need to get close up with a squishy unit and then you'll have a hard time laying the mines while not hitting yourself. When they were first released a common tactic was to get close, lay the mine in an aggressive position, immediately detonate it. You kill your own model but are save because the second model is around the corner. That's thematically really silly. I think the arm keyword should include the free move 1 as Sabines/Bossks 1-pip do. In a full squad the mines are a terrible waste of actions. You spend an action (possibly per round) where 4 models in the unit do absolutely nothing. They should at least be allowed to shoot while the saboteur arms ...

And I don't like the poison keyword in general. It is just so swingy. It either does nothing or deals double wounds. That leads to very frustrating unpredicatble situations.

That said, from all strike team units in the game, I think BX have the best and most interesting design! The snipers are not braindead aim-shooters. You actually have to think about how to the them the aim they need for pierce. You can make them more durable with shields (expansive) and the full unit wich swords and the huge mobility are a real threat! I'm really looking forward to seeing them in action.

7 hours ago, SailorMeni said:

you need to get close up with a squishy unit and then you'll have a hard time laying the mines while not hitting yourself.

That's the real beauty of the BXs, they have red defenses, can be given surge tokens, and better yet have charge on their melee weapons. It's really easy to use a move to get into melee, do an attack, reduce the enemy unit down to 1 or 2 minis, and hold that injured unit hostage to keep the BXs safe while chucking mines. I'm beyond hyped for these.

8 hours ago, SailorMeni said:

It's printed on the unit card, so they always surge to hit.

I'm underwhelmed in general of mines. They are poorly designed and very inconsistant. For once you need to get close up with a squishy unit and then you'll have a hard time laying the mines while not hitting yourself. When they were first released a common tactic was to get close, lay the mine in an aggressive position, immediately detonate it. You kill your own model but are save because the second model is around the corner. That's thematically really silly. I think the arm keyword should include the free move 1 as Sabines/Bossks 1-pip do. In a full squad the mines are a terrible waste of actions. You spend an action (possibly per round) where 4 models in the unit do absolutely nothing. They should at least be allowed to shoot while the saboteur arms ...

And I don't like the poison keyword in general. It is just so swingy. It either does nothing or deals double wounds. That leads to very frustrating unpredicatble situations.

That said, from all strike team units in the game, I think BX have the best and most interesting design! The snipers are not braindead aim-shooters. You actually have to think about how to the them the aim they need for pierce. You can make them more durable with shields (expansive) and the full unit wich swords and the huge mobility are a real threat! I'm really looking forward to seeing them in action.

Saboteurs with shields are 66 points, effectively giving them two free wounds. This could allow them to blow the mine relatively safely, and worst case, poison does not affect them. You are correct though that BX are super interesting as a unit. Can’t wait!

10 hours ago, Tirion said:

Thanks I meant an updated not fuzzy image for the unit

Gotcha. Well I put in the one from the article just now, but it's still partially obscured by the other card. Guess I'll have a full one when it releases.

Do you think a full squad with the Sabo, Shields, and Situational Awareness is worth the 116? They seem stupidly defensive to me, being able to block 3 shots - even crits, if memory serves. That seems like a great objective holder to me, especially with the threat of the mines.

I'm curious if anyone feels like Shields, Uplink, and Push is worth it for a more offensive unit? Presumably with the sniper but throwing another 30 points into an already very expensive unit worries me.

1 hour ago, Mokoshkana said:

Saboteurs with shields are 66 points, effectively giving them two free wounds. This could allow them to blow the mine relatively safely, and worst case, poison does not affect them. You are correct though that BX are super interesting as a unit. Can’t wait!

As usual, I love @Mokoshkana 's idea of the strike team with shields to increase their defensive profile. I saw another post where someone did the exact opposite and grabbed the Vibroswords for the increased mobility.

TLDR: I'm really excited with how much thought was put into both BXs and ARCs - they both seem very capable of being used in so many different ways in both full units and strike teams.

57 minutes ago, TheSharkJuggler said:

I'm curious if anyone feels like Shields, Uplink, and Push is worth it for a more offensive unit? Presumably with the sniper but throwing another 30 points into an already very expensive unit worries me.

I definitely want to try that with the Sniper. It's 130 points, so I don't know if it will be worth it for that, but a unit that can alternate between move/aim/shoot and recover (two shields, OP, and Uplink)/shoot with that dice pool and red Impervious saves seems pretty solid.

17 hours ago, Mokoshkana said:

Saboteurs with shields are 66 points, effectively giving them two free wounds. This could allow them to blow the mine relatively safely, and worst case, poison does not affect them. You are correct though that BX are super interesting as a unit. Can’t wait!

I just love correcting math: two shields are effectively 1 more wound because you use them before rolling saves. Even less if you have a surge token. But then it's great against small dice pool pierce shots (Snipers) and you can recover.

66 P is no bargain and you'll want at least 2. But I'll definitely give it a try. If anything can make it work somewhat consistently, it's BXs!

hmmm. Sniper, offensive push and vibroswords gives you a serious glass cannon at any range for 108......

6 hours ago, SailorMeni said:

I just love correcting math: two shields are effectively 1 more wound because you use them before rolling saves. Even less if you have a surge token. But then it's great against small dice pool pierce shots (Snipers) and you can recover.

You're not correcting the math, you're just looking at it a different way. You're comparing the chances you would have to block an attack if you chose not to use the shield token to the guaranteed block of a shield.

If someone hits you 4 times and you decide to use 2 shield tokens, then the absolute ceiling for their damage is lowered by 2, no matter what the dice do.

It's definitely true that if you block 2 with shields, the math says you only lose 1 model with the 2 red dice you're rolling. Whereas, if you spent no shields and just rolled dice, you'd expect to lose 2. That's only a difference of 1 model after using 2 shields, and you conclude they're worth half a wound each.

But your expected results are subject to variance which will change your perceived value. For instance, you might completely blank out on the roll and lose 4 models. In this instance, using 2 shields would've saved 2 models. It's also possible you roll 4 blocks and nobody dies, in which case spending shields would have done nothing. So sometimes they're worth 2 wounds, sometimes 1, sometimes 0. It depends on what the dice would have done if we rolled the full amount, which is an answer we will never get.

It is mathematically true that spending 2 shields subtracts 2 from the maximum potential damage.

It is also true that using those shield tokens does not guarantee 2 more models live that otherwise wouldn't have . Which is where you're getting hung up. Expected results are based on averages, shields are there because an individual die roll may not be average.

So it's fair for you to conclude that shields are less valuable the better your defense dice are; my stance is 2 guaranteed blocks are better than counting the dice to roll average.

23 hours ago, TheSharkJuggler said:

Do you think a full squad with the Sabo, Shields, and Situational Awareness is worth the 116? They seem stupidly defensive to me, being able to block 3 shots - even crits, if memory serves. That seems like a great objective holder to me, especially with the threat of the mines.

I love this. Another option is to have a full unit with vibroswords and Sab (or just base unit) to charge into the enemy. They need to deal with that threat first giving you time to set-up in the middle or wherever the contested objective will be. In any case, if your opponent is focusing fire on a very defensive unit that can block crits and doesn’t care about AI (dodge), that gives Grievous/Dooku even more power to be aggressive or control the board.

And, you can hide a sab strike team in the back to blow mines if your objective holder does get taken out.

Now imagine this scenario: bombing run with Sabs, Cad Bane, and STAPS. 😂

1 hour ago, smickletz said:

Now imagine this scenario: bombing run with Sabs, Cad Bane, and STAPS. 😂

Don't forget Minefield!

800/800 (9 activations)
Commanders:
- Count Dooku (205): Force Choke (5), Force Push (10), Saber Throw (5), Aggressive Tactics (10) = 235

Operative:
- Cad Bane (125): Duck and Cover (4) = 129

Corps:
- 3× Battle Droids (36) = 108
- Battle Droids (36): HQ Uplink (10) = 46

Special Forces:
- 2× BX-Series Droid Commandos (68): Dioxis Mine Saboteur (28), Situational Awareness (2), Deflector Shields (18) = 232
- BX Droid Strike Team (22): Dioxis Mine Saboteur (28) = 50

• Fear, Surprise, Intimidation, • I'm Your Worst Nightmare, •• Push, •• Double the Fall, ••• You Disappoint Me, ••• I Make the Rules Now, •••• Standing Orders

How does that look as a potential list?

I'm not an expert, but I'm not sold on that build for the BX Commando teams. That's an expensive way to equip a unit that is neither impressive at shooting nor combat. The dioxis mines might do damage, but they're very swingy. Your expected hits per mine is 1. So against red dice defense your mines will do 0 wounds half the time, and 2 wounds half the time.

So assuming each BX squad detonates each mine 1 time, then 3 wounds dealt per game would be a reasonable expectation. Essentially 1 wound per mine. Their ceiling is 4 wounds, but need to benefit from extreme variance to see that potential. A mine is okay, but not a core strategy to build around.

I have to believe either an offensive push sniper squad (either commando or strike), or a vibroswords commando squad will net you more than 1 additonal wound dealt per game. And for cheaper.

So given the offensive disparity between Dioxis builds and sniper and/or sword builds, and the greater cost due to shields, I wonder what the role is.

Your BX squads cost more than 3 times as much as a B1 squad, shoot only twice as hard, and despite red dice and shields, are easier to kill than 18 B1s (more due to activation drainage than mathematical defense which is pretty similar).

TL;DR:

Your special forces costs 282 points collectively.

Instead:

-2x BX-Series Commandos (68), Droid Sniper (30), Vibroswords (6) = 208

-2x B1s (36) = 72

This is 280 points. Better offense, better defense, more activations, and a 2 point bid.

16 hours ago, Ralgon said:

hmmm. Sniper, offensive push and vibroswords gives you a serious glass cannon at any range for 108......

Red saves with impervious is not a glass canon

39 minutes ago, Sekac said:

I'm not an expert, but I'm not sold on that build for the BX Commando teams. That's an expensive way to equip a unit that is neither impressive at shooting nor combat. The dioxis mines might do damage, but they're very swingy. Your expected hits per mine is 1. So against red dice defense your mines will do 0 wounds half the time, and 2 wounds half the time.

So assuming each BX squad detonates each mine 1 time, then 3 wounds dealt per game would be a reasonable expectation. Essentially 1 wound per mine. Their ceiling is 4 wounds, but need to benefit from extreme variance to see that potential. A mine is okay, but not a core strategy to build around.

I have to believe either an offensive push sniper squad (either commando or strike), or a vibroswords commando squad will net you more than 1 additonal wound dealt per game. And for cheaper.

So given the offensive disparity between Dioxis builds and sniper and/or sword builds, and the greater cost due to shields, I wonder what the role is.

Your BX squads cost more than 3 times as much as a B1 squad, shoot only twice as hard, and despite red dice and shields, are easier to kill than 18 B1s (more due to activation drainage than mathematical defense which is pretty similar).

TL;DR:

Your special forces costs 282 points collectively.

Instead:

-2x BX-Series Commandos (68), Droid Sniper (30), Vibroswords (6) = 208

-2x B1s (36) = 72

This is 280 points. Better offense, better defense, more activations, and a 2 point bid.

You’ve missed the core to his strategy. Any bx min saboteur can detonate any dioxis mine. With cad bane kablamo token and the high survivability of the 2 full bx units he’s going for a massive area denial list. It won’t just be 1 mine a unit to get placed. The way I would use that list is keep the strike team bx unit in the back behind los blocking cover, and have the other 2 just keep dropping bombs and being able to detonate one after every action. Dooku to push or scatter enemies into them. Bane to deal damage and further control. If played right it can be very nasty.

Going off number unless you positioned the bx droids poorly or your opponent exposed his units to focus them down early you should be able to easily get 2 mines out each with the full squads, maybe up to 4 each depending on dice. So anywhere from 4-8 mines out, that can do some serious damage to non cis players.
Biggest draw back to this list I can see is it will not be effective against other cis lists or vehicles.

The area denial is nasty no doubt. But given the command cards, the BX droids will be mostly tokenless and subject to AI. Meaning to get all the mines out, those units will be moving/arming for at least 2 turns, maybe 3 turns. Hopefully in areas where they haven't been whittled down too much but also denies important paths.

Say 6 bombs get dropped in total, how many realistically detonate? 4? So about 4 models killed (assuming red defense) using 6 activations over 2 turns.

I really hope it is effective, because I'd like some variety with the builds. I'm just concerned that the threat isn't sufficient to actually deny the area it's intended to.