Cover should cap at 3, not 2. My reasoning:

• It will give units with low profile a use for their ability to use cover a bonus in heavy terrain.
• It will give units with suppression tokens a bonus in heavy cover.
• It will make it harder to shift units in cover.
• Bigger/heavier units will be more useful, as smaller units will struggle to get past the cover.

It makes sense thematically. Because units that are good at using cover would have a greater bonus in heavy, not just light cover. The same goes for pinned (suppressed) units.

Cover to me, feels like it doesn't quite have a strong enough bonus in some situations. Faster/beefier units seem to ignore it as much as possible, focusing instead on total line of sight blocking terrain.

Not a fan. It would make the game even more dice depending. Even more situations would boil down to "only Crits count".

Been thinking about this as well. It would give some boost to low profile and give more importance to blast. It would hinder split-fire as an useful tool though and sharpshooter 1 characters will be pretty meh at dealing dmg. I t would also make critical weapons even more powerful as a pendelum swing.

I would like to see some change for armor and possible cover to make impact and blast more needed in lists. Atm I feel like the critical is too effective and this change would just make them even more powerful compared to other guns.

No. A unit with suppression in heavy cover and a dodge would cancel 4 hits before even rolling dice. This would make attacking anything in heavy cover even more difficult and just make matches go for longer. Also since droids don't get a bonus for cover but everyone else does there would need to be a point rebalance of everything to take that into account.

Believe me or not - the fact that suffering some damage is a part of the deal when engaging in combat is a very refreshing feature in Legion.

Some X-wing games can be very, very frustrating due to the efficiency of ships' defence, leading to fire exchanges with little to no impact on the state of the game.

Nothing is ever guaranteed in a game incorporating dice / randomness yet in my limited experience Legion feels "fair" in being able to capitalise on both enemy mistakes and own plays when most attacks performed have decent chance of generating damage.

Also, the game combines a limited round timer with limited action / activation count. Meaning an average unit only gets to shoot four our fives times a game, or so. The more of those will have little chance of success, the worse for the pace of the game and the feeling of accomplishing something round by round.

The current cover system already can make a difference between destruction of a unit and a unit leader getting to survive up to the final round and contributing to the game's objectives.

I think in the future there may be a place for something similar. I call it a "plus one" effect. Cover plus one, Armor plus one, etc. but i think to introduce that now would be a mistake. I've learned to play certain units a certain way to get what i want from them. I may wish for something more or cheaper point cost on certain units, but at the moment i think it would throw too many things out of whack. All the rebels' units would be significantly worse. They are already pretty poor at offense, and tgis would make them really bad. I wouls find some other benefit for the units you want to boost, or make peace with the fact that earlier units are just not going to be quite as good as newer units in terms if how they feel on the table

I’ve felt the way to OP seems to feel. However, developers have apparently stated more than once that they want the game to be more offensive focused. Games go on for quite a long time as it is (by modern standards). Plus, it’s more fun removing models than tanking hits. Cover-2 seems like a logical max.

You can take medical droids, play with red-dice saving units, add a 5th trooper/heavy weapon, etc. for more survivability if it fits your taste. It helps somewhat. I tend to play with more cover than my main opponent which helps too, even if it isn’t “tournament accurate”.

Everybody has made fair points.

If cover would cap at 3, wouldn't that make people hug heavy cover and never leave it?

Just now, Vector Strike said:

If cover would cap at 3, wouldn't that make people hug heavy cover and never leave it?

They do that with Cover 2 now. You leave cover only when you are ready to die quickly in this game, or risk going for an objective, or entering melee.

I would argue more for a "Camouflaged" keyword which essentially reads "this unit may cancel up to 3 dice if in heavy cover and suppressed". Would be a nice upgrade to the woefully paper-like defenses for the Rebel Corps.

I don't think the cover cap needs to be increased. But I do think Low Profile is a bit underwhelming, as it sometimes doesn't do anything (depending on terrain setup). What if Low Profile was reworked to allow the unit to cancel one additional hit while benefiting from cover? My main concern here is that this might make Scout and Commando Sniper Strike Teams a little too survivable, but I think this, combined with a points drop on full Scouts and Commandos, could potentially lead to more people taking the full units. Han could probably benefit from a tiny buff as well, and as he is range 2, he wouldn't be able to just sit back in heavy cover.

4 hours ago, Lochlan said:

I don't think the cover cap needs to be increased. But I do think Low Profile is a bit underwhelming, as it sometimes doesn't do anything (depending on terrain setup). What if Low Profile was reworked to allow the unit to cancel one an additional hit while benefiting from cover? My main concern here is that this might make Scout and Commando Sniper Strike Teams a little too survivable, but I think this, combined with a points drop on full Scouts and Commandos, could potentially lead to more people taking the full units. Han could probably benefit from a tiny buff as well, and as he is range 2, he wouldn't be able to just sit back in heavy cover.

Yeah. I definitely think Low Profile should also work with heavy cover.

18 hours ago, lologrelol said:

Yeah. I definitely think Low Profile should also work with heavy cover.

One way to do that with probably less of a dramatic impact on the game is to allow the addition of Low Profile after subtracting Sharpshooter from Cover before capping it at 2. This way Low Profile would reduce the effectiveness of Sharpshooter, but the overall impact of Cover is not increased.

It sounds like what proponents of increased cover want is essentially a more defensive game? Because it’s 6 turns, and objective based, increasing the advantage of cover would have some downhill consequences.

Spitballing here:

1. Fewer units taken off the table = more survive to endgame, which means more activations and a longer game.

2. Shooting becomes less effective, so melee units (or just melee itself) get a buff. Units in melee do not get cover, yet they benefit greatly on the approach.

3. Units/upgrades with Blast get a buff (this would help Boba and grenades for example..). Smoke becomes viable? (Actually I’d kinda like that...)

4. Movement could be stymied considerably - as red-dice units in particular could hole up and be very difficult to remove, yet deadly to pass by. Imagine if they were backed by guardian or a medic. This is kind of “realistic”, but does it fit a 6-turn game?

5. Vehicles could become stronger, being naturally more protected in the open with Armor.

There are probably a lot more effects too that others could point out. The biggest negative is the game would be longer. That much is clear. For that reason alone I don’t believe there will ever be a change to the cover rules. Units just die fast in this game to get it down to a manageable length, that’s just the way it’s meant to be played methinks.

BSC

I’ll admit I was actually in favor of cover-3 at first as well. I started playing Infinity right around the same time as Legion, and in that game I was shocked at how quickly units came off the board. And how high-priced models were so fragile without tons of stacked mods (mimetism, camo, etc.) that were model dependent not really cover dependent. Then play Legion I longed for smoke so I could get my storms across open ground without being removed.

In Infinity I learned to stack the mods or consider a unit dead on deployment, to not get attached to individual units at all, and practice better timing. Some units don’t even need to be deployed to be able to see anybody at all initially, yet they can still dominate a lane and affect the battle in a significant way.

in Legion I learned to be more patient, and use activation timing to get my key units out of cover and into position without being shot off the board. Luke and Vader for example going last, then first the next turn. Adding a Heavy weapon can make a stormtrooper squad much more viable as it takes hits. Use Rebel troopers more in the late game when the firepower level has gone down and their relative hitting power increases.

The game is still in flux however. From a recent interview it sounded like the Devs had all the key units for all the factions designed and mostly ready on release day. So we probably aren’t really seeing close to everything the game will become at this stage. Perhaps Cover 3 will become a thing for some specialist units in the future.

Sincerely, I'd rather have more LoS-blocking terrain than increasing cover values.

3 hours ago, Vector Strike said:

Sincerely, I'd rather have more LoS-blocking terrain than increasing cover values.

Well, that's up to you. Just put more out.

I feel like we all have too much time on our hands and not enough time to play Legion (and other fun games)

seriously, if I could, I would never post again and use that time to play games (if I wasn't committed to being elsewhere already)

making a livin' is a drag sometimes

9 hours ago, Vector Strike said:

Sincerely, I'd rather have more LoS-blocking terrain than increasing cover values.

I think there needs to be both. lol

I agree 1000% LoS blocking terrain is great, and makes legion infinitely more satisfying to play. (My droids would be hard pressed without it! lol)

That said, I think there needs to be a cover value higher than "heavy".

I originally wanted to test this in response to sliver shots and extruding weapons and taller models before we had the template ruling added, so it may not exactly work with that, but the idea, roughly, is that attacks made where less than 10% of the defending mini can be seen get the standard "heavy cover" for the purpose of calculating the dice roll, but get a "sliver shot" or "just the tip" hard cap on damage to a maximum of the number of visible minis in that unit.

It doesn't really effect multi mini units that much, as the wounds will usually kill the visible minis and the rest are likely still placed completely behind terrain with blocked LoS, but for 1 mini units, it makes a little more sense. If you're shooting at a hand or a kneecap or the tip of a gun, or maybe just shooting at a mini through the Legion scale equivalent of a 6" gap in the wall, it would be nice if there was something preventing a unit from getting blasted off the face of the planet from that.

I once lost Han in a casual match to a shot that could see only his finger because the opponent fire supported at range 3 for 8 black 10 white and landed 8 damage through "heavy cover"

I guess ultimately it boils to down to what they're making the rules for. In Legion it seems like it's less about eliminating abstract and more about ease of use. The rules seem designed to be easy rather than realistic.

9 minutes ago, Darth Sanguis said:

I guess ultimately it boils to down to what they're making the rules for. In Legion it seems like it's less about eliminating abstract and more about ease of use. The rules seem designed to be easy rather than realistic.

It's almost like FFG is primarily a board game company. Easy has the advantage of attracting a more casual crowd which I daresay is likely larger than the crowd hoping for a realistic Star Wars ruleset. We are playing a game with space wizards and laser swords after all :-P.

53 minutes ago, Caimheul1313 said:

It's almost like FFG is primarily a board game company. Easy has the advantage of attracting a more casual crowd which I daresay is likely larger than the crowd hoping for a realistic Star Wars ruleset. We are playing a game with space wizards and laser swords after all :-P.

Yeah, I know , but it's frustrating. lol 😄

It just conflicts with my IRL experiences.

That's a tricky shot to make while standing perfectly still....

I've been shooting for a few years now, and I may still be a little green, but I can't even imagine being able to tag (let alone KILL) a running target through a 6" wide gap in a thick reinforced concrete wall, especially a target whose only identifiable feature I saw was a finger from 70+ feet away, especially after running 20 something feet into cover before shooting the target. Let alone two whole squads of other dudes making that exact same shot at the same time.



But yeah, space magic and dice, sometimes I just have to get over it. lol

17 minutes ago, Darth Sanguis said:

Yeah, I know , but it's frustrating. lol 😄

It just conflicts with my IRL experiences.

That's a tricky shot to make while standing perfectly still....

I've been shooting for a few years now, and I may still be a little green, but I can't even imagine being able to tag (let alone KILL) a running target through a 6" wide gap in a thick reinforced concrete wall, especially a target whose only identifiable feature I saw was a finger from 70+ feet away, especially after running 20 something feet into cover before shooting the target. Let alone two whole squads of other dudes making that exact same shot at the same time.



But yeah, space magic and dice, sometimes you just have to get over it. lol

Oh I agree, but making a game that accurately recreates all those conditions involves a bunch of tables (How far did you move this turn/last turn? Are you in cover? What is the ambient temperature? How fit is the shooter?) and playing a single turn is rather slow without computer assistance. Also, much more granularity of shooting than just different colored dice.
Also, even "worse" it is MOVIE space magic and dice. Shots like that are made all the time in films, books, and other media whenever it is narratively necessary.

2 minutes ago, Caimheul1313 said:

Shots like that are made all the time in films, books, and other media whenever it is narratively necessary.

Oh I know... lol

I'm the guy in the back of the theater who audibly complains every time.

2 hours ago, Darth Sanguis said:

Yeah, I know , but it's frustrating. lol 😄

It just conflicts with my IRL experiences.

That's a tricky shot to make while standing perfectly still....

I've been shooting for a few years now, and I may still be a little green, but I can't even imagine being able to tag (let alone KILL) a running target through a 6" wide gap in a thick reinforced concrete wall, especially a target whose only identifiable feature I saw was a finger from 70+ feet away, especially after running 20 something feet into cover before shooting the target. Let alone two whole squads of other dudes making that exact same shot at the same time.



But yeah, space magic and dice, sometimes I just have to get over it. lol

Watch enemy at the gates sometime, there's a scene where the german sniper makes almost exactly that shot. There are probably only a handful of people past or present who could make that kind of shot it's not absolutely impossible 😉 .