New Animated Series: The Bad Batch on Disney+ in 2021

Probably not much new for xwing in it, but for sure some interesting stuff for Legion coming out of it

8 minutes ago, ScummyRebel said:

Probably not much new for xwing in it, but for sure some interesting stuff for Legion coming out of it

Maybe a ship or two will show up. But definitely stuff for Legion.

Well now we know why the Bad Batch episodes took up most of the season: they were seeding the characters for this. Considering how "meh" those episodes were, I don't have a lot of enthusiasm for this.

RIP my hopes for a Rebels Sequel 😢

Maybe we get that one in live action (hah!)

4 minutes ago, ClassicalMoser said:

RIP my hopes for a Rebels Sequel 😢

Maybe we get that one in live action (hah!)

Perhaps a movie akin to the Clone Wars movie? But, you know, better than that.

2 minutes ago, 5050Saint said:

Perhaps a movie akin to the Clone Wars movie? But, you know, better than that.

I really hope not. With all they left hanging it needs another show.

And I desperately hope they don't try to cram it all into The Mandalorian, as much as I love that there will be some live-action coverage of Rebels material.

1 hour ago, 5050Saint said:

Maybe a ship or two will show up. But definitely stuff for Legion.

Well now we know why the Bad Batch episodes took up most of the season: they were seeding the characters for this. Considering how "meh" those episodes were, I don't have a lot of enthusiasm for this.

That arc and characters were largely written to be the season premiere in 2012, and was first seen in 2015 at Star Wars Celebration. It had nothing to do with "seeding."

I'm intrigued. There's a lot of fertile ground for a series about Clone Troopers and the Empire in the aftermath of the Clone Wars and Order 66, and particularly clones who were specifically created to be different from the rest of their brothers. A mercenary show also implies we'll probably see some galactic underworld in there as well.

16 minutes ago, ClassicalMoser said:

RIP my hopes for a Rebels Sequel 😢

Maybe we get that one in live action (hah!)

why does this invalidates a Rebel's Sequel?

4 minutes ago, LUZ_TAK said:

why does this invalidates a Rebel's Sequel?

It doesn't. It just means it will take longer (and actors age...).

But I can be patient.

Dave Filoni really needs to quit.

32 minutes ago, Cpt ObVus said:

Dave Filoni really needs to quit.

?

Filoni is the one guy consistently producing better than average SW material.

I'd like to see some diversity in terms of other folk's ideas, but I'd say Filoni has a better track record for quality SW than Lucas himself.

57 minutes ago, Cpt ObVus said:

Dave Filoni really needs to quit.

No u

23 minutes ago, Darth Meanie said:

?

Filoni is the one guy consistently producing better than average SW material.

I'd like to see some diversity in terms of other folk's ideas, but I'd say Filoni has a better track record for quality SW than Lucas himself.

Rebels was passable (except for the return of Maul, but I really ought to blame that on the unwatchable Clone Wars, which is I guess originally responsible for his resurrection, right? I don’t know for sure, I honestly can’t watch the show for more than two episodes).

Mandalorian was great. I loved every episode except the return to Mos Eisley, which I found to be so bad that I went to look up the director afterward. It was Filoni.

Clone Wars was Filoni’s big breakout, and as I’ve said, I think it’s just horrid. Writing, art style, plot, characters... I’ve tried, man. I can’t find anything to like about it. It tells pointless stories about characters I barely like and can’t care about fighting against wisecracking marionettes. I think this isn’t ALL Filoni’s fault; the biggest thing that robs the Clone Wars of its dramatic impact is that I’m essentially watching soldier-slaves fight puppets, and like, who am I to root for? What’s the worst that happens? The robots win and galactic megacorps rule the galaxy under the Sith? Or is it that the clones win, and a Sith rules as Galactic Emperor? What’s the practical difference for the small folk? There isn’t one.

Resistance, I actually like. But everyone else seems to hate it.

Any way you cut it, I’m not a big Filoni fan. It’s a shame; I can see he’s clearly passionate and knowledgeable, but he’s a hack writer. He also makes a lot of the same mistakes that George made at the end... the biggest being that there are TRILLIONS of characters in this galaxy, and rather than show us new ones, he keeps going back to the same well, just like George did (Hi Episode III Chewie! Hi young Boba Fett! Hi young Darth Vader, builder of C-3P0 and owner of R2!).

Even Filoni’s “new” characters are derivative. Bring Maul back. Give us Maul’s brother (who’s barely distinguishable, at a glance). Put Ahsoka in everything. Show us Jabba’s son (really). What’s more mysterious than Yoda? BABY YODA! Boba Fett was cool, right? What about another silent Mandalorian bounty hunter who looks a lot like him? And ****, let’s bring back Fett and put him in that series, too.

Some continuity is desirable to create through-lines. But Lucas overdid it, and Filoni’s even worse about it.

1 hour ago, Cpt ObVus said:

Filoni

This might just be the worst take I’ve ever seen in my life.

1 hour ago, Cpt ObVus said:

Rebels was passable (except for the return of Maul, but I really ought to blame that on the unwatchable Clone Wars, which is I guess originally responsible for his resurrection, right? I don’t know for sure, I honestly can’t watch the show for more than two episodes).

Mandalorian was great. I loved every episode except the return to Mos Eisley, which I found to be so bad that I went to look up the director afterward. It was Filoni.

Clone Wars was Filoni’s big breakout, and as I’ve said, I think it’s just horrid. Writing, art style, plot, characters... I’ve tried, man. I can’t find anything to like about it. It tells pointless stories about characters I barely like and can’t care about fighting against wisecracking marionettes. I think this isn’t ALL Filoni’s fault; the biggest thing that robs the Clone Wars of its dramatic impact is that I’m essentially watching soldier-slaves fight puppets, and like, who am I to root for? What’s the worst that happens? The robots win and galactic megacorps rule the galaxy under the Sith? Or is it that the clones win, and a Sith rules as Galactic Emperor? What’s the practical difference for the small folk? There isn’t one.

Resistance, I actually like. But everyone else seems to hate it.

Any way you cut it, I’m not a big Filoni fan. It’s a shame; I can see he’s clearly passionate and knowledgeable, but he’s a hack writer. He also makes a lot of the same mistakes that George made at the end... the biggest being that there are TRILLIONS of characters in this galaxy, and rather than show us new ones, he keeps going back to the same well, just like George did (Hi Episode III Chewie! Hi young Boba Fett! Hi young Darth Vader, builder of C-3P0 and owner of R2!).

Even Filoni’s “new” characters are derivative. Bring Maul back. Give us Maul’s brother (who’s barely distinguishable, at a glance). Put Ahsoka in everything. Show us Jabba’s son (really). What’s more mysterious than Yoda? BABY YODA! Boba Fett was cool, right? What about another silent Mandalorian bounty hunter who looks a lot like him? And ****, let’s bring back Fett and put him in that series, too.

Some continuity is desirable to create through-lines. But Lucas overdid it, and Filoni’s even worse about it.

I...

Words cannot describe how much I disagree with you. More power to you for being willing to voice your opinion, but that's a really interesting take. For new characters, you didn't mention a single main character in the animated series except Ahsoka, who isn't a main character after Clone Wars (but plays an important role.) What about the entire Rebels crew? Mando felt really different from Boba, even with their obvious similarities. If you can't watch Clone Wars for more than two episodes, how are you developing such a strong opinion of the show?

I'm not a Filoni mega-fan, I see room for improvement in much of the work (Clone Wars being less consistent than Rebels), but I'm really surprised by this.

19 minutes ago, dsul413 said:

Clone Wars being less consistent than Rebels

Credit where credit is due: as I understand, most of the “swing and a miss” episodes were Lucas’s pet stories.

If you don’t like Filoni StarWars, what Star Wars do you like?

I'm not that much of a fan of the Bad Batch either, to be honest. But, @Cpt ObVus , Filoni, overall, has been what's kept me interested in Star Wars. I loved Rebels, loved most of The Clone Wars, and I really appreciate the love he's got for the roots of Star Wars. Now, like you, I also enjoyed bits of Resistance, as well. Kaz was a bit of an idiot, but I actually enjoyed the second-season delve into the First Order's inner workings. Generally speaking, I'm indifferent about whether The Bad Batch series is something I'm going to be interested in when it arrives.

I'm not sure, though, how you can not find even some stuff to like in The Clone Wars. There are some really rich stories, and really mature stories, sprinkled liberally all through the series. I really enjoyed how much it fleshed out the prequel era, and for me, it added a lot to those movies. It made Anakin's fall in Episode III that much more monumental - and it also really showed how he came to the place where he COULD fall. I loved the Mortis mythology arc. Yes, Maul's resurrection was a bit left-field, but once he came back, he became one of the most compelling characters, for me. Adding new dimensions to Obi-Wan's character, too, was really a touchstone for me. I could go on at length about so much more than this, but I would really urge you to give Clone Wars a try again. Start with the Umbara arc.

Clones post Clone Wars is a great area to explore. And sadly, the Bad Batch is about the only clones we followed that made it. But the Bad Batch will be much more interesting than Rex's group from Rebels. I think the start of the Empire from a clone's view is just going to be great.

As for Filoni, the final, final, FINAL arc from the Clone Wars is just perfect. Sadly, you kind of need to watch most of the Clone Wars to fully appreciate it. Still annoyed that they did not animate 2 other arcs.

1 hour ago, ClassicalMoser said:

Credit where credit is due: as I understand, most of the “swing and a miss” episodes were Lucas’s pet stories.

Yeah, this. Much of Clone Wars was done with Lucas looking over his shoulder, so I really don't think of CW as entirely Filoni's.

1 hour ago, dsul413 said:

Words cannot describe how much I disagree with you.

I get where he is coming from on some of it, but I think my main objection is that the criticism is dialed up to 11 for me.

3 hours ago, Cpt ObVus said:

Rebels was passable (except for the return of Maul, but I really ought to blame that on the unwatchable Clone Wars, which is I guess originally responsible for his resurrection, right? I don’t know for sure, I honestly can’t watch the show for more than two episodes).

Mandalorian was great. I loved every episode except the return to Mos Eisley, which I found to be so bad that I went to look up the director afterward. It was Filoni.

Clone Wars was Filoni’s big breakout, and as I’ve said, I think it’s just horrid. Writing, art style, plot, characters... I’ve tried, man. I can’t find anything to like about it. It tells pointless stories about characters I barely like and can’t care about fighting against wisecracking marionettes. I think this isn’t ALL Filoni’s fault; the biggest thing that robs the Clone Wars of its dramatic impact is that I’m essentially watching soldier-slaves fight puppets, and like, who am I to root for? What’s the worst that happens? The robots win and galactic megacorps rule the galaxy under the Sith? Or is it that the clones win, and a Sith rules as Galactic Emperor? What’s the practical difference for the small folk? There isn’t one.

Resistance, I actually like. But everyone else seems to hate it.

Any way you cut it, I’m not a big Filoni fan. It’s a shame; I can see he’s clearly passionate and knowledgeable, but he’s a hack writer. He also makes a lot of the same mistakes that George made at the end... the biggest being that there are TRILLIONS of characters in this galaxy, and rather than show us new ones, he keeps going back to the same well, just like George did (Hi Episode III Chewie! Hi young Boba Fett! Hi young Darth Vader, builder of C-3P0 and owner of R2!).

Even Filoni’s “new” characters are derivative. Bring Maul back. Give us Maul’s brother (who’s barely distinguishable, at a glance). Put Ahsoka in everything. Show us Jabba’s son (really). What’s more mysterious than Yoda? BABY YODA! Boba Fett was cool, right? What about another silent Mandalorian bounty hunter who looks a lot like him? And ****, let’s bring back Fett and put him in that series, too.

Some continuity is desirable to create through-lines. But Lucas overdid it, and Filoni’s even worse about it.

Ugh. The return of Maul is one of the things I hate most. But gain, Lucas wanted it. And I agree with @feltipern1 that some of the stories derived from the return of Maul are good enough to let it slide.

I agree with the derivative and recurrent characters are a SW evil. But I have to disagree on Rebels; it was some of the best story telling with all new characters that as been done yet. Oh, sure, every bloody character from the OT had to show up in 1 episode for a guest appearance, but the story arc was an all new core group.

Resistance was aimed at a far too young audience for me to care. Lump it down there with Droids and the Ewok specials. I would probably like it at 1/10th my age.

I was mostly underwhelmed by the Mandalorian. The last couple of episodes brought it up a notch, but really don't need SW meets the Old West.

57 minutes ago, feltipern1 said:

I'm not that much of a fan of the Bad Batch either, to be honest.

Yeah, I'm afraid it's going to be The Dirty Dozen in space. Or more Wild West in space.

It's been done, even if it hasn't been done in SW.

Moreover, the "Lone Ranger"/"Us Against The Galaxy" is not a storytelling trope that the American social psyche needs more of these days.

Interesting takes, guys. I know I’m probably in the minority in not liking the Clone Wars series. I’m curious, if you guys will indulge a question: How old are you all? Roughly. The reason I ask is that I was born in May of ‘77, the same time that ANH released. I’m obviously too young to have seen it on its first theatrical run, but I clearly remember one of my first theatre experiences being ESB (man, was I pissed at Lando for turning his friends in after that movie!). Most of my Star Wars loving friends are about 5-8 years younger than I am, and all of them are more charitable to the prequels and Clone Wars content than I am. I do wonder if age is a factor.

As for the cartoon, part of it is that I do not at all enjoy the art style. The fake-looking plastic beards, Anakin’s ridiculous nose, the jerky, mechanical CGI. It constantly makes me feel like I’m watching a video game cutscene from the mid-90’s (like the opening of Baldur’s Gate or something). It’s like, anti-immersive. If the Clone Wars had been animated in the style of say, The Dragon Prince (a really great animated series you can find on Netflix, I highly recommend it), maybe I’d have an easier time getting started.

Rebels is a bit easier on the eyes, and I really like the main cast; Zeb, Hera, Sabine and friends are pretty cool. I’m a little puzzled at some of the artistic choices, like wide, squat TIE Fighters and ISD’s with giraffe-like “necks” below the bridge, but I can overlook those, for the most part.

Resistance looks great. It’s still cartoonier than I would prefer, but I like the colorful, high-contrast characters and the accurately-modeled ships. The pacing is fast, but it works pretty well, usually.

So, with a visual medium like a cartoon, it’s a lot to try and get past for me to get into the CW story. But then there’s the voice acting, which I also hate. Obi-Wan particularly sounds imperious and smarmy, rather than dry and clever.

But the real problem, I think, is the source material. Genetically engineered slave soldiers versus smart-alecky robots. Who cares if they die? Where’s the drama? And I dislike the Jedi. They’re a-holes. One of my favorite things about the sequel films, and particularly about TLJ, was that Luke finally called out the Jedi for their arrogance and incompetence. I am, at my very core, opposed to dogmatic fools, and the Jedi Order is the epitome of dogmatic foolishness. It’s really hard to root for them.

I will probably, out of some sense of obligation, try the Clone Wars again. I’ve tried three or four times to watch it already. But it always feels more like work than recreation.

Please, disagree with me. I’m looking for reasons to like CW. But it’s like, I had a friend in college, whom I found to be a pretty harsh critic, and he said something once that’s stuck with me. “If I find myself enjoying a piece of art, I don’t go looking for problems. I just sit back and forgive any minor annoyances. It’s when I’m legitimately NOT enjoying something that I start digging into why, and then it’s hard to un-see the flaws in it.”

And that’s CW for me.

13 minutes ago, Cpt ObVus said:

It’s really hard to root for them.

Yeah I feel like that’s the point of the show; it adds nuance and complexity to Star Wars’ traditional good/evil dichotomy.

You more and more just feel the weight of a galaxy trapped between corruption and hypocrisy on one side and totalitarian savagery on the other, yet there are real people with real lives inserted into the mess. Some are out for themselves, some are trying to fight both sides, and some just crack under the pressure.

Definitely agree about the cartoon style though. One reason I prefer Rebels and still haven’t finished TCW.

I’m 25, for whatever that’s worth.

11 minutes ago, Cpt ObVus said:

Interesting takes, guys. I know I’m probably in the minority in not liking the Clone Wars series. I’m curious, if you guys will indulge a question: How old are you all? Roughly. The reason I ask is that I was born in May of ‘77, the same time that ANH released. I’m obviously too young to have seen it on its first theatrical run, but I clearly remember one of my first theatre experiences being ESB (man, was I pissed at Lando for turning his friends in after that movie!). Most of my Star Wars loving friends are about 5-8 years younger than I am, and all of them are more charitable to the prequels and Clone Wars content than I am. I do wonder if age is a factor.

I was 9 in 1977. I was born for Star Wars. My whole life has been a devotion to it, even during the dark times of 1983 until the first Zahn novel.

I think age is a factor, and I think one will be most drawn to your generation's largest SW hit that happened at about ages 7-11. My nephew loves the PT. I remember it as a huge disappointment in AotC, but a stronger ending in RotS.

Quote

As for the cartoon, part of it is that I do not at all enjoy the art style. The fake-looking plastic beards, Anakin’s ridiculous nose, the jerky, mechanical CGI. It constantly makes me feel like I’m watching a video game cutscene from the mid-90’s (like the opening of Baldur’s Gate or something). It’s like, anti-immersive. If the Clone Wars had been animated in the style of say, The Dragon Prince (a really great animated series you can find on Netflix, I highly recommend it), maybe I’d have an easier time getting started.

Rebels is a bit easier on the eyes, and I really like the main cast; Zeb, Hera, Sabine and friends are pretty cool. I’m a little puzzled at some of the artistic choices, like wide, squat TIE Fighters and ISD’s with giraffe-like “necks” below the bridge, but I can overlook those, for the most part.

Resistance looks great. It’s still cartoonier than I would prefer, but I like the colorful, high-contrast characters and the accurately-modeled ships. The pacing is fast, but it works pretty well, usually.

And for me, the one I hate the most is Resistance. Ugh, that pastel and contrasty palate kills me. I'll go with the plastic beards. I like Rebels animation the best.

Quote

“If I find myself enjoying a piece of art, I don’t go looking for problems. I just sit back and forgive any minor annoyances.

This. And for me, this is most of SW. Even TLJ.

Quote

It’s when I’m legitimately NOT enjoying something that I start digging into why, and then it’s hard to un-see the flaws in it.”

And that’s CW for me.

IMHO, that's what's great about being a SW fan today. The galaxy is huge: OT, PT, ST, Rebels, Resistance, Mandalorian, EU, comics, novels, etc., etc.

Grab what you like and ignore the rest. Just read a summary of the CW storyline so you have the lore, if you prefer. For me, all the Dark Horse Comic EU stuff was never something I could get into. Still, I'm aware of it, and could appreciate the likely homage to it in Ep IX.

Actually, I would be very interested to see Lucas decide make his original vision for the ST. Continuity is already a mess with banning the EU, and I don't think the cinematic ST was an improvement over Zahn's story. So now I'm quite curious to see what VII, VIII and IX would have been under Lucas, even if nothing really lines up anymore.

I also found Clone Wars to be bad. I was miserably powering through it until I found a guide that recommended skipping certain episodes. Then it became quite tolerable. The final arc was absolutely incredible.

37 minutes ago, Cpt ObVus said:

Interesting takes, guys. I know I’m probably in the minority in not liking the Clone Wars series. I’m curious, if you guys will indulge a question: How old are you all? Roughly. The reason I ask is that I was born in May of ‘77, the same time that ANH released. I’m obviously too young to have seen it on its first theatrical run, but I clearly remember one of my first theatre experiences being ESB (man, was I pissed at Lando for turning his friends in after that movie!). Most of my Star Wars loving friends are about 5-8 years younger than I am, and all of them are more charitable to the prequels and Clone Wars content than I am. I do wonder if age is a factor.

As for the cartoon, part of it is that I do not at all enjoy the art style. The fake-looking plastic beards, Anakin’s ridiculous nose, the jerky, mechanical CGI. It constantly makes me feel like I’m watching a video game cutscene from the mid-90’s (like the opening of Baldur’s Gate or something). It’s like, anti-immersive. If the Clone Wars had been animated in the style of say, The Dragon Prince (a really great animated series you can find on Netflix, I highly recommend it), maybe I’d have an easier time getting started.

Rebels is a bit easier on the eyes, and I really like the main cast; Zeb, Hera, Sabine and friends are pretty cool. I’m a little puzzled at some of the artistic choices, like wide, squat TIE Fighters and ISD’s with giraffe-like “necks” below the bridge, but I can overlook those, for the most part.

Resistance looks great. It’s still cartoonier than I would prefer, but I like the colorful, high-contrast characters and the accurately-modeled ships. The pacing is fast, but it works pretty well, usually.

So, with a visual medium like a cartoon, it’s a lot to try and get past for me to get into the CW story. But then there’s the voice acting, which I also hate. Obi-Wan particularly sounds imperious and smarmy, rather than dry and clever.

But the real problem, I think, is the source material. Genetically engineered slave soldiers versus smart-alecky robots. Who cares if they die? Where’s the drama? And I dislike the Jedi. They’re a-holes. One of my favorite things about the sequel films, and particularly about TLJ, was that Luke finally called out the Jedi for their arrogance and incompetence. I am, at my very core, opposed to dogmatic fools, and the Jedi Order is the epitome of dogmatic foolishness. It’s really hard to root for them.

I will probably, out of some sense of obligation, try the Clone Wars again. I’ve tried three or four times to watch it already. But it always feels more like work than recreation.

Please, disagree with me. I’m looking for reasons to like CW. But it’s like, I had a friend in college, whom I found to be a pretty harsh critic, and he said something once that’s stuck with me. “If I find myself enjoying a piece of art, I don’t go looking for problems. I just sit back and forgive any minor annoyances. It’s when I’m legitimately NOT enjoying something that I start digging into why, and then it’s hard to un-see the flaws in it.”

And that’s CW for me.

The animation does get a big upgrade in Season 4, I believe. Or sometime around when most of the cast got model updates.

Its okay that Clone Wars isn't for you. You don't have to enjoy the style. I myself could not get over the Dragon Prince's framerate. If you've tried that many times, its safe to say that it isn't for you. There are a lot of episodes. And a lot of BAD episodes. Star Wars is a big tent. Find what you like, and enjoy it. It is okay to not love and consume everything.

For me, Clone Wars is what actually made the prequel era interesting. The show introduced the idea that the clones might actually have their own personalities and ideas. I've said it before, but it made Order 66 into as much of a betrayal of the clones as it was for the Jedi, especially in that final arc.