2 hours ago, buckero0 said:

Except for Tirion, do you see anyone praising the virtues of Pathfinders? Wookiee Warriors? Anyone?

There are dozens of us! Dozens!

Seriously though this made me happy.

If I'm known for anything I'm fine with it being that haha

1 hour ago, KarlVonCarstein said:

How about just a cap on certain units? No more than 1 strike team for example.

sure, but that would be the tourney organizers decision. FFG isn't going to do it. In fact, FFG might be excited to have generated this kind of quandary in the first place, this is the kind of things that 40k people used to argue over on the internet.

16 minutes ago, Tirion said:

There are dozens of us! Dozens!

Seriously though this made me happy.

If I'm known for anything I'm fine with it being that haha

You know, as much as I knock them, they are in most of my Rebel lists, just because I don't really care for the sniper squad. If FFG would develop other 50pt units, I'd probably take them. Pierce is good, but I don't care for the white and black dice. I prefer the red dice offensively. 🤪 . I kind of wish I could just take a couple of generic commanders as special forces. Maybe that's what the mandalorian strike group is going to be with the Duelist upgrade.

I would buy a shirt with that logo though "There are dozens of us! Dozens!"

3 minutes ago, buckero0 said:

You know, as much as I knock them, they are in most of my Rebel lists, just because I don't really care for the sniper squad. If FFG would develop other 50pt units, I'd probably take them. Pierce is good, but I don't care for the white and black dice. I prefer the red dice offensively. 🤪 . I kind of wish I could just take a couple of generic commanders as special forces. Maybe that's what the mandalorian strike group is going to be with the Duelist upgrade.

I would buy a shirt with that logo though "There are dozens of us! Dozens!"

Will just in case no one has heard it today

PATHFINDERS ARE TIED FOR THE SINGLE HIGHEST DAMAGE CEILING OF ANY NONE HERO UNIT IN THE GAME.

trololololololol

Nobody mentioned determining blue player by activation count yet? Usually comes up by now.

17 minutes ago, Achinadav said:

Nobody mentioned determining blue player by activation count yet? Usually comes up by now.

Yeah, I guess if you've been around long enough, you see this same thread and same arguments about every 6 months (maybe that means we'll get an RRG update this week)

For some reason (probably because of the other games the designers were involved in) they wanted to and are sticking with points as some construct of importance.

3 hours ago, arnoldrew said:

I don't know about ARCs, but plenty of people are using full Droid Commando squads on TTS to good effect. I think they usually use the swords.

Trust me, Red DEF with "Impervious" is gonna see full unit use, I guarantee you.

9 hours ago, Cruzer said:

Trust me, Red DEF with "Impervious" is gonna see full unit use, I guarantee you.

2 out of 3 GAR playing Invader League Semifinalists play them ... twice. They are crazy good! Very likely the next thing people will complain. A lot 😃 .

I still don't think there is a big problem with strike teams. More like a minor inconvenience that they are more effective then other special forces. Death Troopers and Royal Guards have their place and are used quite frequently. Pathfinders see play but I think a 10-15 points reduction would help them a lot. Full squad commandos/scouts are a bit too expensive as well. Only Wookies are a hard pass. That's mainly due to their low range design (same as Fleet Troopers and Snowtroopers). Not sure if points reduction alone would help them.

With ARCs and BX the designers already made the full squad very viable. And I'm pretty sure Inferno Squad and Clan Wren will be very viable as well. With the new units (and the expected points adjustments) later this year I'm absolutely sure we'll see a big meta swing.

7 hours ago, SailorMeni said:

2 out of 3 GAR playing Invader League Semifinalists play them ... twice. They are crazy good! Very likely the next thing people will complain. A lot 😃 .

I still don't think there is a big problem with strike teams. More like a minor inconvenience that they are more effective then other special forces. Death Troopers and Royal Guards have their place and are used quite frequently. Pathfinders see play but I think a 10-15 points reduction would help them a lot. Full squad commandos/scouts are a bit too expensive as well. Only Wookies are a hard pass. That's mainly due to their low range design (same as Fleet Troopers and Snowtroopers). Not sure if points reduction alone would help them.

With ARCs and BX the designers already made the full squad very viable. And I'm pretty sure Inferno Squad and Clan Wren will be very viable as well. With the new units (and the expected points adjustments) later this year I'm absolutely sure we'll see a big meta swing.

I hope so. I hope the Inferno squad is good enough. All the others, I will play full squads of.

I think instead they should implement the passing rule like Imperial Assault did when activation padding was getting out of control and becoming such a massive advantage.

Basically you can opt to pass until you both have equal activations.

Player A has 10 and Player B has 12.
-Player A goes first, but ops to pass because he/she has 2 less activations than Player B
-Player B can't pass as he/she has more activations than Player A
-Repeat again for 11 to 10 Activations
-Now when both sides have 10 activations, Player A must activate as they are at an equal number
-Player B still gets the advantage of going last, however Player A will now no longer have to suffer through 3 activations in a row at the end of the turn

For turn 1-2 it matters a lot, later on you most likely don't want to pass so the longer the game goes the more it balances out for both sides.

This also doesn't punish someone who wants to bring more beefy units, and while it still does reward the person who pads their roster count, it doesn't give them an avalanche of advantage.

Unfortunately I did broach this question to Davey during one of the live streams. it took me asking I think 5 or 6 times before he finally commented on it and his response as vague but he basically said that they didn't see activation count as a problem, currently, but would continue to monitor it moving forward.

On 7/13/2020 at 12:13 PM, buckero0 said:

My point is FFG is not going to fix it. They raised the price on the all the Strike teams (do you see everyone spamming the Proton Charges Saboteurs?) What they should have done, was actually identify the problem (Activations are good, 50pts will get you a quality activation) an raise the cost of the sniper gun in ONLY the strike team. People take Death troopers because they get them free with Krennic. Except for Tirion, do you see anyone praising the virtues of Pathfinders? Wookiee Warriors? Anyone?

I love running Sabs! I think they could make a comeback soon, since approaching a GAR gunline is already suicide.

Pathfinders are really good at the moment. The points adjustments last year already improved them, but now Cassian along with Supply Drop and new upgrades (Scale is so good for them!) has made them competitive. Running two gives your opponent fits if you deploy them well.

Wookiee Warriors are also situationally good, like Fleets. They just can’t make the cut as far as making a synergistic list for Rebels. Rebels are all about the synergy between heroes and between a hero and their troops. I think Han is the best commander for Wookiee Warriors and he’s just been outclassed by Cassian and Sabine and pairs well with Chewie who fills the same roll in the list as Wookiee Warriors. Overall I would agree and say poor design choices force them out, but at least they are fun to get on the table.

List building is not just picking the best units or filling out the most activations. Each unit has a role to play and a single sniper just doesn’t do enough so if you want to take 1, you probably need at least 2 to make your army functional.

Pathfinders are really good!

Oh, I’d add that I can’t imagine trying to use Sabs on TTS. Positioning them would be a nightmare. That makes it hard to practice with them, but I think. In person it’s easier to hide them and use them effectively. Just harder to get in practice games in person and competitive play requires practice. My understanding is a lot of people use TTS for that and it’s the only place for tournaments currently.

1 minute ago, smickletz said:

Oh, I’d add that I can’t imagine trying to use Sabs on TTS. Positioning them would be a nightmare. That makes it hard to practice with them, but I think. In person it’s easier to hide them and use them effectively. Just harder to get in practice games in person and competitive play requires practice. My understanding is a lot of people use TTS for that and it’s the only place for tournaments currently.

My biggest gripe with the saboteurs is the difficulty of placing the bomb so that you don't kill yourself. It requires so much set up and usually doesn't threaten the enemy (especially if your opponent has red defense dice) The Imperial one at least does the Suppression, the CiS has Poison. The rebel one usually does more damage or gets my unit strung out where it is very difficult not to take damage on your own guys and not the enemy. If you got the speed 1 move after placement like some of the newer bombs (Sabine, Bossk) they would at least be usable turn 1 to re-direct deployment, etc.

8 minutes ago, smickletz said:

Oh, I’d add that I can’t imagine trying to use Sabs on TTS. Positioning them would be a nightmare. That makes it hard to practice with them, but I think. In person it’s easier to hide them and use them effectively. Just harder to get in practice games in person and competitive play requires practice. My understanding is a lot of people use TTS for that and it’s the only place for tournaments currently.

I don't understand how it could be different. I routinely get rocked by sabs on TTS.

23 minutes ago, buckero0 said:

My biggest gripe with the saboteurs is the difficulty of placing the bomb so that you don't kill yourself. It requires so much set up and usually doesn't threaten the enemy (especially if your opponent has red defense dice) The Imperial one at least does the Suppression, the CiS has Poison. The rebel one usually does more damage or gets my unit strung out where it is very difficult not to take damage on your own guys and not the enemy. If you got the speed 1 move after placement like some of the newer bombs (Sabine, Bossk) they would at least be usable turn 1 to re-direct deployment, etc.

I'm not sure I understand the issue. The bombs don't need to be blown immediately every single time. It's more fun if they aren't designed that way as well, IMO. If you want to just throw and blow, then your guys are going to get damaged. That's how it is.

............... I wonder if they will double down on cheap activation strike teams? Makes me wonder if Clan Wren and Inferno squad will allow two man units. FFG will just make the spot more diverse by replacing snipers with other unit types? Not sure if that would fix the annoyance that snipes have been since they first came out?

15 minutes ago, RyantheFett said:

............... I wonder if they will double down on cheap activation strike teams? Makes me wonder if Clan Wren and Inferno squad will allow two man units. FFG will just make the spot more diverse by replacing snipers with other unit types? Not sure if that would fix the annoyance that snipes have been since they first came out?

Yes, they come with "strike team" analogs. Apparently they will be the named unique version of the unit (Inferno Squad and Clan Wren) as opposed to the full-size generic units (Imperial Special Forces and Mandalorian Resistance).

34 minutes ago, arnoldrew said:

Yes, they come with "strike team" analogs. Apparently they will be the named unique version of the unit (Inferno Squad and Clan Wren) as opposed to the full-size generic units (Imperial Special Forces and Mandalorian Resistance).

Has that been officially clarified? I was under the impression that we still didn't know exactly how the generic/unique differentiation was going to be set up (ie. there could be unique and generic versions of both the full unit and the strike team).

4 minutes ago, Lochlan said:

Has that been officially clarified? I was under the impression that we still didn't know exactly how the generic/unique differentiation was going to be set up (ie. there could be unique and generic versions of both the full unit and the strike team).

I was never under the impression it was under any doubt given how many times the game designers have talked about it in various livestreams, interviews, etc, and they've always described it as I just did.

1 hour ago, arnoldrew said:

I was never under the impression it was under any doubt given how many times the game designers have talked about it in various livestreams, interviews, etc, and they've always described it as I just did.

yeah, Imperial Inferno Squad can take 1 trooper and then add 1 of the following (T21, Gideon Hask, Del Meeko) Clan Wren has the 2 man Duelist group or it can take sabine's Mom Ursula or her brother Jack (can't remember his name) Gideon and Del Meeko can be taken with Corps troops, we don't know about Ursula or her son.

3 hours ago, arnoldrew said:

I'm not sure I understand the issue. The bombs don't need to be blown immediately every single time. It's more fun if they aren't designed that way as well, IMO. If you want to just throw and blow, then your guys are going to get damaged. That's how it is.

Yeah, my main complaint is that it does more damage to themselves than the enemy usually. That may be because when I play Rebels, I'm usually playing against Imperials and Clones. I always thought the Imperial Sonic charge was better because of it's keywords. It seemed to be "more worth it" to blow it up on yourself because even if your guys died, you were more likely to take 2 figures off of the units you hit. I know the rebels have a higher ceiling, but it never seems to pan out, and the suppression seems like a more useful keyword than the Impact keyword on Rebels.

3 minutes ago, buckero0 said:

yeah, Imperial Inferno Squad can take 1 trooper and then add 1 of the following (T21, Gideon Hask, Del Meeko) Clan Wren has the 2 man Duelist group or it can take sabine's Mom Ursula or her brother Jack (can't remember his name) Gideon and Del Meeko can be taken with Corps troops, we don't know about Ursula or her son.

That's Tristan, and no it looks like they only fit with Clan Wren or the Mando Resistance (if Tristan is any indicator, Ursa hasn't been revealed yet).

Should of realized they would have strike teams since FFG likes to repeat units. Seems like the ARCs and commandos are the template for the mandos and Inferno just with the added feature of having unique squads.

Do wonder between these four units if anything can beat just taken the three sniper strike teams? Invaders League says no right now, but we don't know a lot of keywords and units right now.

I was under the impression that for Mandos and Inferno you can take a generic or unique unit, but both are the same size.

3 hours ago, costi said:

I was under the impression that for Mandos and Inferno you can take a generic or unique unit, but both are the same size.

The previews we've seen have explicitly stated you can deploy 2 units with the 7 models in the box, thus one has to be a smaller "strike team" unit.

What happened to the idea of making the bid activation-based instead of/as well as points-based?

I like the idea of incentives better than caps, since caps tend to create a race to the bottom.