22 minutes ago, 5050Saint said:

I thought it odd that the scene was in there, but there was good that came of it: my friend's comment after watching that part was "I forgot that Vader was a bad guy." In the OT, we never really see him mercilessly kill folks, and even in the prequels, we never really "see" him be bad. All his evil acts are mostly off screen.

I understand that others may not like it, but to me, Rogue One is great. The only thing that I don't like about the film was the Bor Gullet and the 5 second brain damage that it does to Bodhi Rook. I just chalk that up to every Star Wars movie contractually needing a menacing alien creature at some point whether it is necessary to the plot or not.

Don't get me wrong, it was cool. But it does not fit the rest of the movie at all. It's such a weird way to add fanservice when the alternative was way more interesting: Vader taking on eg Chirrut and Baze. Characters we care about. That's horrifying!

Here's a good article talking about it: https://screenrant.com/star-wars-rogue-one-darth-vader-ending-undermines-characters/

I love rogue one for the space battle, especially supercuts on youtube are so awesome!

Ninja-ing the relevant part from Farmer from when he did his rewatches. He said it better than I ever could:

Quote

• Yes the Vader hallway scene is "cool" but...

• Alright, come at me, but the Vader scene is stupid fan service. I can't deny that it's cool. If its your favorite scene that's fine. I was really excited to watch it in theaters too. BUT PLEASE HEAR ME OUT ON THIS! Structurally it doesn't make sense within the lens of the movie. If you're watching Rogue One, you've more than likely seen A New Hope, which means you KNOW that the Rebels get the Death Star plans. There actually isn't any tension in the scene at all, and is COMPLETELY tonally inconsistent with the rest of the movie. We are SUPPOSED TO BE ROOTING FOR THE REBELS, and yet when the Vader hallway scene comes on we all go "Yeah Vader, cut those ***** down." "Wow I love how 'scary' Vader is!" It's stupid. Clear protagonists have been set up, and to root against them at any point in the movie is not good story telling. "But Moisture," you say "We know they get the plans so it was okay for me to enjoy watching Vader be AWESOME LIKE WE'VE NEVER SEEN HIM in this scene" I'm not going to tell you what to like, but I am going to say it was a bad way to get Vader in there. Notice how I'm not saying the scene shouldn't exist. I'm saying that it lacks any kind of tension or stakes because we all know the outcome. It just exists to jerk fans' junk. What would create tension you ask.....?

• Before I answer that question, let me say this. The character development in this film is pretty bad. I barely care about Jyn, Cassian, Bohdi, Baze, Chirrut...etc? The problem is that we don't REALLY get to see them build any meaningful relationships with one another. We don't get to see them care about one another. Their sacrifice doesn't come off as impactful as it could have. Let's be honest here, did any of you cry or were at risk to when ANY of the characters aside from K2 died? I would wager no (though tell me if Bohdi getting grenaded really rattled you). The film COULD HAVE made their bonds so much stronger. Part of the issue is Hollywood's obsession with "Putting the Team Together" stories. "Look at this rag-tag group of outsiders coming together for ONE LAST JOB!" But givin the complexity of the rest of the story...well we just don't get time to care about any of them. I mean Jyn is the MAIN CHARACTER and her motivations are murky at best. One way you could have fixed this is by having them already be a team at the start of the movie. Maybe they are part of Saw's Partisans. They would have had history with one another, a rapport. We as an audience care when we see characters on screen care. It's why when Chirrut dies we feel at least a little bad because Baze is sad. If the audience is able to really build a relationship with these characters then you get TENSION in the third act because you don't want them to die. Which leads me back to...

• How about if Jyn and a few of our Rogue One team had made it onto the ship. Maybe Cassian sacrifices himself or something to get her and chirriut on a ship or whatever. The JUST manage to get off the planet as it's being death stared. They get to the hallway... and THEN Vader shows up. Vader actually becomes scary in this sort of scenario. Because the tension isn't really about the plans, it's about these couple of characters you've come to care for about to reach their demise. It still could've been BRUTAL, and meaningful.

9 minutes ago, GreenDragoon said:

Don't get me wrong, it was cool. But it does not fit the rest of the movie at all.

I completely agree. It was fan service.

3 hours ago, 5050Saint said:

In the OT, we never really see him mercilessly kill folks...

... 🤔

...apology accepted Captain Needa.

However, as you mention that most of Vader's evil acts were off screen... well, personally that's why I thought the Vader scene was perfect. It let us see Vader at the height of his powers as a Sith Lord, ripping through the Rebel forces like an unstoppable force of nature. From the second you hear the wheezing and see the lightsaber ignite, you know the Rebel soldiers are doomed. It was something we really hadn't seen before.

It made sense to me that he would lead or join the boarding party in their attempt to reclaim the Death Star plans. When watched back to back with A New Hope, it made his being present for the boarding of the Tantive IV more understandable and underscores his anger during those opening scenes. It had become a vendetta at that point.

Would it have been more satisfying or a better use of his cameo to see him take down some of the main characters? Eh, not sure about that really. For the most part, Rogue One delivers a more brutal, front line take on the conflict than we see in the trilogy, with casualties on both sides being a result of the conflict itself rather than being due to the actions of known names. The protagonists always had a one way ticket to Scarif; they new that, the audience knew that. Their story ended with the Death Star firing on the Scarif base. Everything that followed was basically for me an ultra-satisfying epilogue or coda.

Fan service? Yeah, sure. But fan service done effectively, and fan service done right. I don't think many of the fan service scenes Disney have attempted in their films so far have generated this kind of reaction:

The final scene of Rogue One worked for me because it was genuinely scary to me. Watching the scenes from the OT of Vader choking people I feel like an observer. I see it and think, yes, he's evil, but I don't feel the fear. But the scene from RO I felt like I was a participant rather than just an observer and it was a scene out of a horror movie where you know this evil person is coming for you. In that moment, I was so engrossed with what was going on it didn't matter that I logically knew the outcome. Emotionally, I was genuinely fearful that the plans wouldn't make it out. I'd say it was pretty effective for me. But I realize YMMV.

5 hours ago, Scrivner said:

The final scene of Rogue One worked for me because it was genuinely scary to me. Watching the scenes from the OT of Vader choking people I feel like an observer. I see it and think, yes, he's evil, but I don't feel the fear. But the scene from RO I felt like I was a participant rather than just an observer and it was a scene out of a horror movie where you know this evil person is coming for you. In that moment, I was so engrossed with what was going on it didn't matter that I logically knew the outcome. Emotionally, I was genuinely fearful that the plans wouldn't make it out. I'd say it was pretty effective for me. But I realize YMMV.

Same here, and that's very similar to what the guy in the clip above said - the direction in the scene puts you in the middle of the action and makes you feel part of proceedings.

And it's not just any scene, it's like a scene out of a slasher/horror movie, with the supernatural serial killer relentlessly making their way towards you.

The scene was well done. Great fan service, maybe decent as an epilogue... but story wise , yes Farmer’s comments were correct.

Still, it’s a Star Wars movie and they’ve never been flawless pieces of film. I enjoyed that third act, including the Vader scene, so much I’m willing to overlook much of the rough bits.

I'll give you Captain Antilles, but...

14 hours ago, FTS Gecko said:

Not merciless, it's a battle among somewhat equals where his opponent intentionally loses. You should have picked Biggs if you were gonna pick anyone.

14 hours ago, FTS Gecko said:

Killing a evil underling is faux menacing. Killing this space nazi captain doesn't win you scary points, it gets you bad boss points. Greivous kills more underlings than Vader kills underlings, but it doesn't make him menacing.

In Rogue One, he slaughtered more people than he killed in all OT movies in a matter of seconds. He showed why he is feared. As @Scrivner said, in that moment Vader became a horror movie villain, unstoppable and implacable. Fear personified.

14 hours ago, FTS Gecko said:

Fan service? Yeah, sure. But fan service done effectively, and fan service done right.

Agreed. If you're gonna do fanservice, do it this way. I also agree that having Vader taking down main characters would be unnecessary, and you would need to either write Baze and Chirrut into space or Vader onto the beach. Both of those seems problematic. Stormtroopers finally gets some more kills under their belt. Let them have this one. Like you said, it gives a front line feel for the movie, where no name soldiers can kill main characters. Rogue One made me feel that space war is actual war. The best that we got of that in the OT was that Ewok mourning the death of another Ewok.

46 minutes ago, 5050Saint said:

Killing a evil underling is faux menacing. Killing this space nazi captain doesn't win you scary points, it gets you bad boss points. Greivous kills more underlings than Vader kills underlings, but it doesn't make him menacing.

Killing your subordinates for failure being bested is not bad *** EVEN WHEN THEY ARE SPACE NAZIS. If your reaction to Vader killing Needa is "To heck with him, he's a Space Nazi. That's badass," you come across just as fascist as Vader. I suspect you're just trying to be edgy. That though might even be worse than Vader. Vader at least knows what he is and is that with conviction.

2 hours ago, Frimmel said:

Killing your subordinates for failure being bested is not bad *** EVEN WHEN THEY ARE SPACE NAZIS. If your reaction to Vader killing Needa is "To heck with him, he's a Space Nazi. That's badass," you come across just as fascist as Vader...

To be fair, 5050 said "bad boss", not "badass".

In fact, no one said "badass" (unless of course we're shifting the goalposts). The response was to "not seeing Vader mercilessly kill folks in the OT". We clearly do. There is no doubt Vader's treatment of Ozzel and Needa is merciless. With a side of petulance? Sure. But Piett (you fool) is the only one of them spared Vader's anger.

And Vader striking down Obi Wan is definitely merciless as well - Obi Wan puts up his weapon, yet Vader doesn't hesitate for one second in making a killing blow. But yeah, if you're counting starfighter kills (Biggs) rather than face-to-face murder, then let's face it, he wipes out most of the Rebel fighters in A New Hope on his own:

11 minutes ago, FTS Gecko said:

To be fair, 5050 said "bad boss", not "badass".

Whoops. We may be able to set how scary Vader is or is not made by this with the fact that it shows why The Empire is a problem. The Empire gives men the authority to summarily execute their subordinates. Just another day in the tyranny of The Empire.

Okay, watching Episode III.

Why are the FFG Jedi fighters the triangle arrowhead shape instead of the ones Obi and Ani flew that looked more TIE-cockpit-ish?

Will that be released later??? Oooo 😜

1 hour ago, JBFancourt said:

Okay, watching Episode III.

Why are the FFG Jedi fighters the triangle arrowhead shape instead of the ones Obi and Ani flew that looked more TIE-cockpit-ish?

Will that be released later??? Oooo 😜

That's the ETA-2. Expected to be announced in the next wave.

18 hours ago, JBFancourt said:

Okay, watching Episode III.

Why are the FFG Jedi fighters the triangle arrowhead shape instead of the ones Obi and Ani flew that looked more TIE-cockpit-ish?

Will that be released later??? Oooo

The FFG Jedi Starfighters are the one flown by Obi Wan in Episode II (asteroid battle with Jango).

And yes, the fighters from Episode III will be turning up as well.

Which begs the question, just how many ships can we get Anakin to pilot?

On 7/12/2020 at 12:18 PM, GuacCousteau said:

They really, really, really don't.

The plotting of the prequels is an absolute mess.

That said... if the prequels weren't the absolute mess they were, we would have never seen the glory that is this:

At this point, I consider the Star Wars universe to be an organically growing modern day mythology, with the movies akin to a 'true crime' dramatic reconstruction of supposed events.

So this...

53 minutes ago, FTS Gecko said:

...has as much claim to be the true account of what actually happened as anything else.

Which is awesome.

1 hour ago, FTS Gecko said:

Which begs the question, just how many ships can we get Anakin to pilot?

Republic side? Likely every single one he flew for the faction. Hopefully not Imp side, that is a singularity which must be avoided at all cost...

20 minutes ago, Hiemfire said:

Republic side? Likely every single one he flew for the faction. Hopefully not Imp side, that is a singularity which must be avoided at all cost...

How many point for Vader in a TIE Defender though?.

I wants it, precious...