Why does the extra damage dice on the accurate trait only apply to basic weapons!? I can understand a pistol not receiving the extra two dice, but one should be sufficient.

Because it's essentially sniping. There's quite a few ways in which a weapon can be useful. It's usually a toss-up between the portability (and the possibility of dual-wielding!) of a pistol, the extreme damage of a heavy weapon, the fire rate of a Full Auto basic weapon. the low ammo consumption of a lasweapon - or the high single-shot damage of an accurate basic weapon.

Allowing one additional die for an accurate pistol for non-dual shots sounds fine, though and is IMO fully in line with e.g. the duelling laspistols, though that's for the GM to houserule.

I think it would clearly be better to rule something like:

IF you spent a full action to aim with a telescopic sight and are using an accurate weapon you get up to 2d10 extra damage...

because our cleric runs around with a hunting rifle in point blank half action for aim+accurate + laser sight shooting each round at a +60 (bought weapon skill to 43) and kills of most xenos

while our guardsmen with a vanaheim in point blank with full auto get's stuck in the armor/TB as well as our assassin-gunslinger

(everything DH of course)

problem remains the same the extra damage is from sniping and of course limiting it to basic weapons circumvents the use of it in melee combat but point blank sniping is not acceptable in my opinion...

In my opinion, the Accurate trait as a whole could work much better with a kind of rating. E.g. Accurate (1), for duelling pistols etc., would allow you to roll one bonus damage die, Accurate (2), for long las and the like, would allow two and so on up to Accurate (3) for Exitus Pistols and the Nomad and finally (4) in case of the Exitus rifle.

Pro:

It could solve problems with strange weapon ranges if you just multiply the base range with the rating. With the current rules, shooting a target at distance of 74m with a long las is easier than shooting a target at a distance of 31m with a lascarbine. With the rating, a long las would have a base range of 75m, which is doubled to 150m when used with the Aim action.

It would allow "legendary weapons" to become more dangerous. With the current rules, a long las can deal just as much bonus damage as the Exitus rifle, and I guess most of you must agree that doesn't feel right.

Con:

It's difficult to adjust the weapon stats, especially now, after the the rules for Accuracy and weapon range are already published in the form we know.

because our cleric runs around with a hunting rifle in point blank half action for aim+accurate + laser sight shooting each round at a +60 (bought weapon skill to 43) and kills of most xenos

So... why don't the xenos charge him? Standing within 3m of an enemy with a non-melee-weapon sounds like he's asking for it and getting there, aiming and firing is rather difficult to manage within one turn.

Terelo said:

It doesn't feel wrong to me. All it tells me is that close range the accuracy difference between them doesn't matter. At longer ranges the difference in how accurate they are does show because the Exitus rifle has a longer range.

My problem with accurate weapons is that the Nomad (Inquisitors Handbook) has a longer range than the Exitus rifle, meaning that it is even more accurate.

Cifer said:

first of for a charge you have to move 4 metres in a straight line... of course if that is not possible he could as well move+attack

but now there is a mechanicus secutor and a templar calix inbetween blocking Line of Movement/Effect (and yes if someone can come up with a raw rule about comrades blocking solid projectile shots it'd be nice to hear about book & page), a gap inbetween, a crate, a difference in elevation, ... think of something shooting into melee is still at 83 with above setup and charging the cleric would mean 2 free attacks from the tech-priest and the psyker (one each) which is going to hurt so they could disengage and walk into melee with the cleric meaning that he'ld basically loose his round to movement but then the cleric of course can't shoot using his hunting rifle... he could do a disengage himself and then the tech-priest and psyker would follow+attack or charge the xeno themselves... or the xeno has neglegible melee skills and being in point blank he tries shooting the cleric himself (maybe he even walked into PB for this)

It doesn't work as a solo strategy (most of the time). And I'm basically tanking the mob as the tech-priest with help from the templar calix while the cleric tries to accurate shot the enemies the guardsman is bracing/using his heavy stubber or using his vanaheim and the assassin-gunslinger tries to wound stuff with two orthlack VI and standard ammo because manstopper is too expensive

in complexes which mainly consists of corridors (such as the spaceship full of orks we tried to sabotage and then flee from while they did a hit & run on a small low-tech agrar world (dunno if feral, feudal or whatnot) we were on due to another epic railroading session) it does work very formidable

and in the few minutes inbetween the psyker uses heal on the tech-priest which uses a toughness test to see if it damages for 1d5 or heals 1d5 points... with 60 toughness it does heal more often then damage and with a few lucky rolls worked well enough basically allowing for hours of ork shredding as long as ammunition, orks and breaks long enough to chain cast healer don't go out... if you use las weapon and have luminen charge and breaks long enough to charge again and again or a power station for charging present you can keep it up for hours

(and a healer with a threshhold of 7 means a psyker with wp60 and a focus (+1) can decide to roll 0 dice and still get healer working meaning no perils or even psychic phenomena in DH)

so that's been our strategy and it worked quite good... by now the assassin left the guardsman and cleric changed characters (to different careers) so we needed to work on our strategy but the templar/tech-priest to tank team won't go down and would be my choice for a 2 player group in DH

(and a healer with a threshhold of 7 means a psyker with wp60 and a focus (+1) can decide to roll 0 dice and still get healer working meaning no perils or even psychic phenomena in DH)

You always have to roll at least one die for manifesting.

And yes, if the group uses tactics and the enemy doesn't, it's going to hurt.

Cifer said:

yes it is but everything the orks pulled on us didn't work which wasn't that much...

actually "you need to roll at least one die" is as far as I remember not in the rules... I don't play the psyker I don't gm the round I just quickly looked upon psyker rules which state "by rolling a number of dice up to their Psy rating (typically 1-6) and adding their willpower bonus" so "up to 4" includes 0 the way they see it and if typically is not interpreted as "as long as no exception is taking place" it is just a quick reminder of the typical span of willpower during a normal (n)pc psyker career.

I won't discuss and/or argue about this, it is not my rule and not my rule writing and I'm neither playing psyker atm nor GMing DH

In our games it was a similar situation that caused me to house rule it. Our assassin got to PB range and fired into melee (had no penalties to call a shot) with an accurate weapon until he scored a large enough hit to put it down.

Getting a huge damage bonus because the weapon is pin point accurate but getting the bonus at PB range (where he probably wouldn't be using the sights).

So I said that it needed to A) call a shot at the head or chest, B) be firing at an unaware target. So he's still able to ambush and snipe people. I'm not sure if I'd gone too far still. Technically firing into combat requires calling a shot (or risking hitting allies) that stops PB firing into combat to get the damage bonus.

Of course the other way to look at is that every gun in accurate at PB range, but then that change's the whole thing and really goes against any mellee.

actually "you need to roll at least one die" is as far as I remember not in the rules... I don't play the psyker I don't gm the round I just quickly looked upon psyker rules which state "by rolling a number of dice up to their Psy rating (typically 1-6) and adding their willpower bonus" so "up to 4" includes 0 the way they see it and if typically is not interpreted as "as long as no exception is taking place" it is just a quick reminder of the typical span of willpower during a normal (n)pc psyker career.

I won't discuss and/or argue about this, it is not my rule and not my rule writing and I'm neither playing psyker atm nor GMing DH

Quite right, there's nothing in the RAW about it, however it's the answer that has consistently been given by the developers when asked "can you roll 0 dice".

Sirion said:

The must roll one dice rule is in the Dark Heresy errata.

My group house ruled that 0 still counted, but a better option may be to rule that the fettered/unfettered/push rules from ascension also apply to unascended sanctioned psykers:

Fettered: The psyker rolls a number of d10s less than or equal to half his psy rating (rounding up*). No phenomena are caused.

Unfettered: The psyker rolls a number of d10s up to his psy rating. Every 9 rolled generates a phenomena.

Push: The psyker must roll his psy ratings + 3 dice. A phenomena is caused, for every 9 rolled the roll on both tables is increased by 5

*Rounding up is in the RAW.

ah found it in the errata thanks