https://forms.gle/RZisw7RXdrYnSbdx9

See survey. Please vote. Thanks.

I want to fly the 6 X-wings against these people that think any of these pilots can solo that many.

I think all of these could solo 1 consistently if played without error, but 2 would already be a challenge for the majority of them (assuming similarly competent players). Some of them could do 3 some of the time with some lucky rolls, but I don't see 4+ happening unless the skill gap between the two players is immense.

Within the exact limit of 10 points of upgrades,no Kylo couldn't solo 6 x-wings...BUT! Given unlimited time, supernatural protorp primed thrusters magpulse Kylo might...

We need a separate poll for fully loaded ships!

seeing as we passed 100 replies, here's some stats (warning - mobile browser hostile):

I'm annoyed that at least three people didn't understand the whole numbers only thing. I'm also annoyed that some folks intentionally put zero to troll. If you don't think Kylo or Boba can solo a X-wing, you're either a troll or you have taken leave of your mental faculties.

Is this Hyperspace only?

I'm assuming it is, and that that's why there's no Wedge, Soontir, Anakin or Guri.

But if it's Hyperspace only, you should probably specify because you've given them 10 points of upgrades and I think it's relevant. For example, I really think that Vader's effectiveness at this would depend greatly on whether or not he can take Afterburners.

And I think people might be assuming he is here.

Can Vader take three RSVs if he has Afterburners? Maybe. With some dice luck. Can he take three without? No, absolutely not. He'd get killboxed and focused down in two or three rounds.

3 hours ago, svelok said:

seeing as we passed 100 replies, here's some stats (warning - mobile browser hostile):

Pilot	Boba Fett	Kylo Ren	Han Solo	Darth Vader	Duchess	Luke Skywalker	Fenn Rau	Poe Dameron	Obi-Wan (7B config)	Obi-Wan (CLT config)	Plo Koon (7B config)	Plo Koon (CLT config)	Zizi Tlo	Major Vonreg	Holo	Blackout	Darth Maul
Average #	3.15	3.00	2.72	2.77	1.68	2.17	2.58	2.20	2.67	2.13	2.24	1.85	1.60	2.00	1.71	1.91	2.21
Median #	3.00	3.00	3.00	3.00	2.00	2.00	2.00	2.00	3.00	2.00	2.00	2.00	1.00	2.00	2.00	2.00	2.00

So what we learned is that everyone is aware that on some level at least a few Aces are undercosted compared to Generics but that its fine because we like Aces.

Boba Fett is the only one on that list that I would say is a straight up problem right now.

1 hour ago, Boom Owl said:

So what we learned is that everyone is aware that on some level at least a few Aces are undercosted compared to Generics but that its fine because we like Aces.

I fail to see how a meta where the optimal strategy is spamming the cheapest ship of a given chassis is better.

16 minutes ago, gamblertuba said:

Boba Fett is the only one on that list that I would say is a straight up problem right now.

And that's typically with at least 13 points of upgrades stacked onto him, minimum.

5 minutes ago, clockworkspider said:

I fail to see how a meta where the optimal strategy is spamming the cheapest ship of a given chassis is better.

It makes for considerably less exciting builds, but I can roll with it for awhile.

29 minutes ago, clockworkspider said:

I fail to see how a meta where the optimal strategy is spamming the cheapest ship of a given chassis is better.

This is more about recognizing there is potentially a built in points discount for aces by design. If your happy with that its totally fine, thats a gameplay preference. What conclusions we want to draw from this or even can to begin with (I am not convinced we can look at points this way) are sorta based on preferences. It kinda actually makes sense from a game point of view. People want cool characters to be the best in the game. They aren't wrong to want that. Tilting points in their favor of i5/i6 aces is a part of making that a reality. Not necessarily advocating that generics get cheaper either, although for some ships it might still be helpful. Also worth mentioning that generic only spam is not the only alternative to what we have now. Its possible for points to engineer a greater mix of relevant archetypes, thats my preference. I doubt generic only spam would be the outcome of moderately and consistently increased prices for i5 and i6 aces.

I do not share the opinion that generic only lists are boring either. I enjoy many different archetypes including Aces, Generic Spam, Ace + Bruiser, Ace + Squad, etc. Basically everything besides Fat Turrets. Focho or 5x style lists are just another archetype to me, not some doomsday machine we need to prevent from being a relevant strategy.

50 minutes ago, Boom Owl said:

What conclusions we want to draw from this or even can to begin with (I am not convinced we can look at points this way) are sorta based on preferences.

I'm not certain what conclusions we can truly draw from this aside from what it is that people believe, as this isn't based on empirical evidence but rather based on people's perceptions filtered through their biases.

Flew a 7 vulture and O-66 list against Boba/Dengar. Drove Boba away and through some hot dice, killed Dengar with 8 ships still on the table before Boba could fully engage. Was still not confident of the outcome. Boba Fett is a beast.

Yes, that is largely due to upgrades on him but it's the fact that he can take all the upgrades . Crew, gunner, bombs, mods, and titles. Slave1 goes up obvo. But unless you want to price his other upgrades out of competition, Boba needs to eat the increase in his pilot cost.

22 minutes ago, 5050Saint said:

I'm not certain what conclusions we can truly draw from this aside from what it is that people believe, as this isn't based on empirical evidence but rather based on people's perceptions filtered through their biases.

That seems like a solvable problem.

4 minutes ago, Boom Owl said:

That seems like a solvable problem.

True, we could set whatever number of X's vs Ace pilot over and over; might get tedious, but we'd get some data. It's the hit-and-run one's that would be the most boring to test: Zizi, Kylo, Regen Jedi.

7 minutes ago, 5050Saint said:

True, we could set whatever number of X's vs Ace pilot over and over; might get tedious, but we'd get some data. It's the hit-and-run one's that would be the most boring to test: Zizi, Kylo, Regen Jedi.

@Boom Owl I'm game for some testing if you like.

2 hours ago, Ablazoned said:

@Boom Owl I'm game for some testing if you like.

How would the testing go? Ace have to destroy all the ships? Point total? Time Limit? A lot of variables for a survey, so really you can't draw anything from this. Well, besides the fact that some people didn't understand the question/troll (6 and 0) or the dynamics of multiple ships vs 1 (This wouldn't be Fly Casual AI)

I'd also join in on testing sometime if someone wanted to.

something slightly different

https://forms.gle/RWKndfRHaK2zADFU6

20 hours ago, gamblertuba said:

Boba Fett is the only one on that list that I would say is a straight up problem right now.

I'll admit I'm not the most stellar player, but what 10 points of upgrades are you throwing on him?

I can't even beat 3 RSV in Fly Casual with him.

14 minutes ago, CaptainJaguarShark said:

I'll admit I'm not the most stellar player, but what 10 points of upgrades are you throwing on him?

I can't even beat 3 RSV in Fly Casual with him.

Most people probably can't.

1 hour ago, CaptainJaguarShark said:

I'll admit I'm not the most stellar player, but what 10 points of upgrades are you throwing on him?

I can't even beat 3 RSV in Fly Casual with him.

As @gennataos said, most probably can't.

With 10 points, I'd go Slave 1 and 0-0-0 minimum. Fearless, Debris Gambit, or Contraband Cybernetics to fill the rest of the points.

I want to see a follow up with generic jumpmasters

I’m pretty sure Soontir can beat 8 of them, as a benchmark