All of which is, of course, completely and utterly true. But with the aliens, the effect they have on the wider game is vastly different. A game featuring the Tyranids is going to feel vastly different to a game featuring the Eldar, which in turn is going to feel vastly different to the Kroot, or the Xenarch or the Enslavers. Whilst you might be able to play a fun game of 'spot the b-movie Games Workshop stole these boys from,' the adventures and stories will feel very much different to one another.

Whereas plague zombie survival horror, genetically created zombie survival horror and warp-spawned zombie survival horror are, when push comes to shove, all zombie survival horror scenarios. I like zombie survival horror, and feel that World War Z and Pride & Prejudice & Zombies should be required reading in schools from the age of 4+, but Dark Heresy is getting a bit - dare I say it - infested...

Until there will be Blood Zombies of Khorne and neuro-toxin (made by Fabius Bile, Fabricus, or other creative traitor) infested Space Marines, there would never be enough Zombies! Oh, by the way, all zombie lovers (ehm... you know how I mean it...) should check this www.cracked.com/article_15643_5-scientific-reasons-zombie-apocalypse-could-actually-happen.html

Hey FFG, how long until we get Cat-aliens?

Furry ones burn bestest!

Hi graver

Graver said:

We really should! The grass is always greener...

What? Grass? Green grass? Not in my dark gothic space fantasy....

Everybody knows that the in the dark future of the 41st millennium, the grass is always gray, muddy, scorched with las-fire and watered with the blood of martyrs, whichever side of the metaphorical fence you reside on...

I did have a faint idea for a campaign:

"The Man from Fenris"

A man from Fenris shows up, lots of murders. Implication is Werewolf, very simple. Players think werewolf, everyone's good.

But just as the player's cotton onto the idea, we unleash the Zombies!

And then the Flesh Tearers show up.

And *then* we reveal the man from Fenris is part of a logician cult, a particularly fiendish gene-smith and biomantic technologist.

A logician cult operating in deep space with as piratical renegades after having been driven from somewhere else.

An attack by the logician cult's operatives to sabotage the players' plans.

Presuming they survive, they find out logician cult's in league with a Demiurg's automatons.

So, all in all and in order, that yields: Werewolf, zombies, vampires, Frankensteins, pirates, ninjas and robots. Anything I've missed?

Dinosaurs peeing liquid heroin and shooting lasers out their eyes.

you some how managed to miss them, i think they generally come between the pirates and the ninjas in most tropes.

MINOR SPOILERS BELOW!!!

Not wanting to come over too serious here, but I think the problem is with the big published adventures. What makes zombies frightening is their effect on their enviroment; what they represent about the afterlife; and how they are ultimately not responsible for the misfortune that affects the protagonists in zombie movies. Usually, that comes down breakdown in communication between the human survivors. None of that is present in any of the published scenarios. Zombies are simply assumed by the author to be inherently scary. They're not. Moreover, mechanically, they tend to be boringly tough, surviving ridiculous damage from some of the downright hideous weaponry of the forty-first millenium. Combats go on forever against an artificially resillent foe who presents no interesting tactical options for the GM, since they've been shorn of their thematic resonance. I'm not saying any of this couldn't be gotten around by a resourceful GM, but as it stands it strikes me as a criminal lack of imagination amongst fellows whose job is to stoke creatvity and excitement.

For the record, I LOVE zombies. I think they have a place in 40k and Dark Heresy in particular. However I would like to have seen:

a) Zombies used as a means to generate pathos/despair/reflection.

b) Some degree of communication between scenario authors. Their appearance in both the aformentioned mining world and in that Haarlock adventure seems a tad weird in such a gigantic setting.

I'd like to say that the fan scenario, Scriveners Star was about the best use of zombies. In fact, I've erased them from every other scenario in which they appear in order to maximise their appearance in this excellent adventure.

OK I'm done. I didn't realise I was so passionate about this subject...

Oh and the original Dawn of the Dead is the best zombie film ever. I mean, Shawn was good. Effects obviously better as well. But Romero's DotD was a masterpiece. The Gone With The WInd of zombies. That heresy corrected, I'm now TRULY done!

Well, saying Dawn of the Dead is the best zombie movie is a bit like saying the best kind of milk is cow's. 'Course it is! If it wasn't for cow's milk we wouldn't have started milking everything else with nipples. But Gone With The Wind, with zombies? Now that I'd pay to see...

Other than that, have to say I pretty much agree with you on all points. I'd like to see zombies bugger off from DH now, as they've appeared in what, two of six published adventures? But that doesn't mean to say I don't think the walking dead have no place in the Imperium. If they didn't suit it so well, we wouldn't have seen them at all!

I admit it, I hate most other kinds of milk. I'm definitely a cow man, although technically I got started somewhere less mentionable. It's really not suitable for this lovely, open forum

Hey, we've all got our touchstones. For me, DotD is in my top ten movies ever . I know, possibly freakish...but I loved how they painted a consistent world that seemed to exist outside of the protagonists personal space. The perfect RPG setting in fact. Anyway...

It would be interesting to hear about any alternatives to zombies that people have inserted into the published adventures. Or perhaps people's alternatives to any critter that they feel has been overused or is merely boring.

MINOR SPOLIERS BELOW!!!

For the record, I've noted that creatures that appear to be skinless have appeared more than once...without the books to hand, I can think of the warp beasts in Purge The Unclean...incredbily lame considering their nature. I know that there were an endless variety of them, but in the encounter involving the PC's, a large skinless predator was first and foremost. Then we have the skinless things in Tattered Fates. Maybe I'm nitpicking, and of course it'll mean very little to those who make up their own stuff... but I still think that a little more pizaz could have been brought to bare. I mean SURELY the authors must have been aware of the repetition. We're talking good money for these products. I don't want to see any doubling of ideas. Especially ones that are none too exciting already.

Hey, this is probably its own thread...ah well.

Xisor said:

Ah if we where to be cynical, its all just fairly much evey single bit of Lord of the Rings that has has taken out the back and repeatedly beaten to death in some form or another, since role playing dawn of time and then flogged off as some kind of game... just in 40k its been thrown into the blender with Dune for a bit of space fluff. In some sort of inevitability with the amount of zombie computer games and movies which came out over the last few years, thats permeated down as well.

Irony is that GW uttler smashes the crap out of anyone who touches their version

pvhammer said:

Shhhhhh! By the Emperor, man, they might HEAR you!

Velvetears said:

...I am intrigued by your ideas and wish to subscribe to your newsletter.

three easy instalments, week one, all we ask for is three thrones eighty seven demithrones and that each three days following the fifth you invite freinds round for sherry and biscuits, Week six we ask that you read That book by that mad cadian, backwards listening to lounge music (any damage this may do to sanity is not our fault) and in week thirteen, when you're top of the pyaramid scheme and fully bloated on sherry and biscuits we ask that all you send us is the flayed skin of your first born, the eyes of your maternal grandmother and the small fee of 8 more thrones.

Now I won't disagree that there's too many zombies in the DH system now. But here's an idea I'd like to throw out there for everyone to think about. Is if we have zombies as the most annoying enemy, why not also include them to be a useful subject as well?

After all, if demon possession is quite possible. What's to stop a radical band's sorceror to figure out how to take control of a band of 'em?

Just thought I'd leave that parting little gift.

Serimus Bodikan said:

A corrupted death cult. Their assassins strike targets designated by the Chaos Sorcerer/Priest. The bodies are recovered and transformed into "zombies" by dark arts. Most zombies fit mostly into the mindless animated corpse while others seem to think and reason. In truth, each is a Dæmonhost of some sort; mostly warp predators, but some are lesser dæmons of Nurgle or Khorne.

So many options for what would seem to be such a simple threat.

-=Brother Praetus=-

Actually, if the players had their own summoned zombies, that would actually provide sufficient narrative to justify their cropping up everywhere! It would certainly be a different take on the usual radical. Why spend ages investigating a cult, only to go charging in with your daemon-sword and hope they don't kill you? Far better to send in a horde of the risen, all the while sitting in your office, sipping amasec and watching it live via Servo Skull recordings...

And your probably right, Mishma. Best leave the milk conversation there. But please accept my heartfelt congratulations for lowering the tone even further. Well played

Mishima said:

Hey, I thought Scrivener's Star was a most typical example of a boring zombie-bash. What's so good about that?

Now I won't disagree that there's too many zombies in the DH system now. But here's an idea I'd like to throw out there for everyone to think about. Is if we have zombies as the most annoying enemy, why not also include them to be a useful subject as well?

I thought those were called servitors .

pvhammer said:

Dangit, you beat me to it.

I have to say, while there are a lot of ways to make zombies appear I actually like the flexibility. In game, if a gleaming metal skeleton shows up the players know automatically what they are (even if the characters don't). A lithe figure in shining and mysterious armor? Yup. Big green guy with horrible grammar? Uh huh. Naked insane guy foaming at the mouth and drawing eldritch symbols on himself with his own poop? Little harder to figure out, but wouldn't be hard to guess.

But if an army of the shambling undead appear, they could be ANYTHING.

I see how it could be annoying that there are so many of them, but I figure humanity is used as fuel. Who's to say everything else isn't going to want to tap into that well too?

Egalor: I thought Scrivener's was good because:

a) The use of Ateanism was interesting.

b) The dramatic potential of Patient Zero coughing at dinner was awesome.

c) Zero-G zombies.

d) The very real danger of infection which meant fighting the things was almost suicidal. It felt more depressing knowing that the things were stinking carriers of disease.

e) General sense of doom, which I appreciated. It was less about destroying the enemy, more about sheer survival.

I should also say, that out of the published writings on zombies, I liked the Nurgle angle in DotDG. It just seemed to fit more for me. I think it's worth being a little more lenient with stuff that's free and offered to the community. I resent that less than purchasing the same old same old.

Oh and thankyou for the compliment Seraphael. It's just nice to know that I could contribute!