I was talking with EliasWindrider in a different thread about my desire to have a blaster focused Jedi-type character, sort of in the vein of Teepo Paladins and we decided to work on that in a new thread, so here it is. I think EliasWindrider is going to do the heavy lifting here as I am not really adept at this sort of thing, but I am sure once he gets going input from other parties would be appreciated to help refine and balance things.

EliasWindrider, I found somone elses ideas for creating a Teepo in the D6 game. This might of use for some inspiration.

https://rancorpit.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=2627&sid=65ce9251f6316bce2329f38edfb9df10

https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/jedi-gunslingers.77277/page-3

Are you making a character or a specialization tree or a career? If it’s the first, I think the seeker has you covered pretty solidly. They get some aiming and damage bonuses as well as some nifty tracking abilities. I think it’s the hunter specialization, but there might be another one.

edit: the executioner from savage spirits has some interesting stuff if you want to go with a wild west pistol dueling vibe.

We are making a new spec. I agree it is not strictly needed, but this spun out of another thread that was all about making specs. If I did not have a dedicated Spec, I have been thinking Gunslinger to Emergent (or other Force granting Universal) to Executioner.

I'd first, perhaps, explore what kind of force tradition it is supposed to represent. I mean, if you're making a new specialisation, it should be founded also in story and world-building. At least that's my perspective. Is the existence of this specialisation warranted? If you have to spread over three four specialisations to get what you want, that may be a reason to create a new spec, but if the resulting character's power-level is also what you're looking to achieve, then three four specs may be suitable. If, on the other hand, there are only certain aspects that you find relevant - and not just the biggest, badest and best talents from each spec - then you have a reason too.

This question - I believe - can easily be answered by looking at existing specialisations. Then pick the one which best suits the tradition, and modify it with the aspects that are missing - and remove aspects that may be nice, but doesn't fit the tradition you're trying to represent.

So, Gunslinger, perhaps, but remove bonus career skills and let it provide the character with a Force rating ... this gives you the opportunity to focus the specialisation a bit more, by providing talents that give new career skills. I mean, I haven't had a look at the specialisations you mention for a while, so I'll stop my rambling here.

Well, I did. What I really want is a representation of the Teepo Paladins & Gray Paladin offshoots; however Elias did not think he could build that. I was most likely going to use whatever I got to represent them anyway. This is an extension of the thread that was building Universals for alternate force traditions.

I did enjoy reading through this FFG Star Wars Reddit thread titled "Jedi Gunslinger" which is full of ideas on how to build one.

4 hours ago, DarthKaage said:

We are making a new spec. I agree it is not strictly needed, but this spun out of another thread that was all about making specs. If I did not have a dedicated Spec, I have been thinking Gunslinger to Emergent (or other Force granting Universal) to Executioner.

I guess the challenge then, is to make it different than what is offered by the seeker.

With the teepo paladins, you can do some cool stuff by adding in some sort of sense/blindfighting abilities to represent their connection with the force. Realistically, I think if you mixed something that focuses on intuitive fighting with the hunter and ataru striker, you’d have what you want. So, getting talents that don’t mix too much with those two would probably be a good direction to go.

My comment was (based on accounts) I could not square the tempo Paladins ability to shoot down blaster bolts, slugs, shrapnel will the game mechanical need to not auto hit every target, especially without the hunter's intuitive shot talent which is their signature talent and was therefore off limits for poaching.

But if we take gunslinger as a base and look at what we could remove, deadly accuracy (replace with force rating),

Could also remove the toughened, 2x lethal blows, confidence, sorry about the mess and dodge

So 6 more talents to play with

There has to be a minimum of 3 new talents to justify a spec

Things we'd like to add

A skill that adds cool and ranged light as career skills

look at warleader there is also a attachment that Grant's this)

Natural negotiation (reroll cool and negotiation checks

Actually I think we need a from scratch build.

If we're doing this I think we need to talk about concept... I'm thinking a gambler/gunslinger vibe.

Semi related for the force sensitive but other stereotypical smuggler, I like racer/hotshot/sage.... it covers pilot/gunslinget/gambler/erstwhile face pretty well.

21 minutes ago, EliasWindrider said:

My comment was (based on accounts) I could not square the tempo Paladins ability to shoot down blaster bolts, slugs, shrapnel will the game mechanical need to not auto hit every target, especially without the hunter's intuitive shot talent which is their signature talent and was therefore off limits for poaching.

That seems like you’d just add a talent which lets the character apply reflect when wielding a blaster.

1 minute ago, yoink101 said:

That seems like you’d just add a talent which lets the character apply reflect when wielding a blaster.

How do you narratively justify that ability without also letting them auto hit any larger slower target like characters.

I don’t so why you have to. It’s space magic. If Jedi can block lasers with their laser swords and not kill everything with their first strike in every situation, then shooting blaster bolts down works fine in my mind.

Edit: I mean, lightsabers do damage instead of instant kill, so we can suspend our disbelief and say that the perfectly placed blaster bolt hit a badge/book/deck or whatever that was in the target’s pocket instead of a vital organ.

2 hours ago, yoink101 said:

I don’t so why you have to. It’s space magic. If Jedi can block lasers with their laser swords and not kill everything with their first strike in every situation, then shooting blaster bolts down works fine in my mind.

Edit: I mean, lightsabers do damage instead of instant kill, so we can suspend our disbelief and say that the perfectly placed blaster bolt hit a badge/book/deck or whatever that was in the target’s pocket instead of a vital organ.

There is a difference between not auto killing and not auto hitting... not auto killing is easily justifiable.... but not auto hitting a human when you can auto hit a blaster bolt/bullet mid flight... I can't justify that. If you can, you're welcome to make a homebrew teepo Paladin spec, but for me it's a bridge too far.

Blaster reflection with a lightsaber is also substantially easier.... you "just" have to have the lightsaber in the right spot before the blaster bolt gets there (e.g. before the other guy pulls the trigger) and then wait for it. To shoot a bolt/bullet out of the air you have to get both position and timing perfectly right, since bullets can travel near ot at the speed of sound pulling the trigger at the exact right moment would be incredibly difficult even for a jedi.

6 hours ago, EliasWindrider said:

There is a difference between not auto killing and not auto hitting... not auto killing is easily justifiable.... but not auto hitting a human when you can auto hit a blaster bolt/bullet mid flight... I can't justify that. If you can, you're welcome to make a homebrew teepo Paladin spec, but for me it's a bridge too far.

Blaster reflection with a lightsaber is also substantially easier.... you "just" have to have the lightsaber in the right spot before the blaster bolt gets there (e.g. before the other guy pulls the trigger) and then wait for it. To shoot a bolt/bullet out of the air you have to get both position and timing perfectly right, since bullets can travel near ot at the speed of sound pulling the trigger at the exact right moment would be incredibly difficult even for a jedi.

From everything I’ve seen, blaster bolts seem to move considerably slower than bullets. Which means that a target might have time to react to a shot. So even someone auto-hitting a point in space wouldn’t necessarily auto-hit their target. Even with that in mind, a starting character with agility of 3-4 and two ranks in the ranged combat skill of their choice is outrageously unlikely to miss a minion. Even rivals and nemesis are unlikely to avoid the attack. But, I’d say when the Teepo Paladin misses, it’s an evade, an intercept, or an armor plate interjecting itself, not a miss.

So. As I prefer to mess around with making specialisations rather then working on my PhD, here's another over-powered specialisation sktech, this time for the Teepo Paladin force tradition.

Granted. It's a mess. I've based it on the various related entries on Wookieepedia. It doesn't have a Force Rating talent, partly because it provides you with a force rating of 1, and because the entry says these guys see the Force as a secondary element or whatnot, to martial skills and abilities.

It's based on the gunslinger, plus some stuff from warleader and elsewhere.

I've created the Blaster Block talent (terrible name, but that's what I came up with), which allows the Teepo to reduce incoming ranged damage, as per the reflect talent. It's its own talent though, so it doesn't stack with Reflect.

It's really a hot mess, but it may serve as a starting point.

EDIT: I should probably have named the specialisation Gray Paladin instead.

So. Re-reading some bits, here's a tweaked Gray Paladin .

I like where this is heading.

11 hours ago, yoink101 said:

From everything I’ve seen, blaster bolts seem to move considerably slower than bullets . Which means that a target might have time to react to a shot. So even someone auto-hitting a point in space wouldn’t necessarily auto-hit their target. Even with that in mind, a starting character with agility of 3-4 and two ranks in the ranged combat skill of their choice is outrageously unlikely to miss a minion. Even rivals and nemesis are unlikely to avoid the attack. But, I’d say when the Teepo Paladin misses, it’s an evade, an intercept, or an armor plate interjecting itself, not a miss.

Yes but it's supposed to work against bullets an shrapnel as well so that's a moot point. If that explanation works for you, more power to you... it doesn't work for me.

4 hours ago, Jegergryte said:

So. Re-reading some bits, here's a tweaked Gray Paladin .

It doesn't seem over powered to me. The problems I have with it are

1) it doesn't have the minimum of 3 new talents (multiple ranks don't count as more than 1)

2) I don't see how martial grace fits in

3) uncanny senses is more fitting than uncanny reactions

4) I can't narratively justify blaster block

You should replace basic combat training with a "blaster slinger" which adds cool and ranged light as skills

You should add a "constant cool" talent which is the reverse equivale4t of constant vigilance.

Sidestep and improved sidestep (see the deathwatch universal spec in the clone wars book) belong in the tree

25 minutes ago, EliasWindrider said:

It doesn't seem over powered to me. The problems I have with it are

1) it doesn't have the minimum of 3 new talents (multiple ranks don't count as more than 1)

2) I don't see how martial grace fits in

3) uncanny senses is more fitting than uncanny reactions

4) I can't narratively justify blaster block

You should replace basic combat training with a "blaster slinger" which adds cool and ranged light as skills

You should add a "constant cool" talent which is the reverse equivale4t of constant vigilance.

Sidestep and improved sidestep (see the deathwatch universal spec in the clone wars book) belong in the tree

1) Didn't know this was a requirement.

2) Well... neither do I. It was a filler.

3) I'll have a look. Not sure I agree.

4) Not my problem. If you can, then perhaps this can be enjoyable, if not, don't use it. 🙂 I'm not sure I can either, but there you are.

Cool.

Thanks.

I will.

Thanks.

So. I've made it more powerful, because why not. And taken some of the advice given by Elias.

The more powerful bit is now that Overpowered has become more powerful. It was originally based on Ravage, which is a "weak" and more limited version of Intuitive Shot. So, I've made Overpowered somewhere in between, with a cost, but a better bonus. It's doing too much though I fear. Being a bit fiddly.

Here .

EDIT: Latest .

6 hours ago, Jegergryte said:

So. I've made it more powerful, because why not. And taken some of the advice given by Elias.

The more powerful bit is now that Overpowered has become more powerful. It was originally based on Ravage, which is a "weak" and more limited version of Intuitive Shot. So, I've made Overpowered somewhere in between, with a cost, but a better bonus. It's doing too much though I fear. Being a bit fiddly.

Here .

EDIT: Latest .

Overpowered is a little funky... not too powerful but a weird mechanic.

1 minute ago, EliasWindrider said:

Overpowered is a little funky... not too powerful but a weird mechanic.

It's basically two talents in one I think ... Meh. I may drop the commit part.

21 minutes ago, EliasWindrider said:

Overpowered is a little funky... not too powerful but a weird mechanic.

I mean, this is the core of it: The character may as an Incidental suffer 3 strain to add [FO] up to their current Force rating to ranged weapon combat checks until the end of the next round, spending [FP] to add [SU][AD] to the result.

It was based on a once per encounter power, but then I guess I forgot about that. Being once per encounter it should pack some power, but then, would the above be too powerful if it could be done every round? Probably. Of course you could decrease the bonus to [SU] or [AD] instead of producing both. Or you could keep it as once per encounter.

The commit notion came from the desire to be able to hold on to the added [FO] for longer than two rounds of attacks, since it is a once per encounter thing. The idea being, you can gain this and keep it going, but only for so long, or until you have to do something with the [FO] of yours. This specialisation doesn't have Force Rating, by design, as they are described as not being very focused on the Force part of things, beyond as an enhancer of existing skills (if that). At least that's how I choose to interpret the Wookieepedia entry.

This makes for a messy talent. Another solution could be that they can commit [FO] to be able to roll that committed [FO] only on ranged attacks, gaining the bonus already outlined, for a Strain cost. And, if we want the once per encounter to be present, there can be a limitation along the lines of: once they uncommit [FO], the talent cannot be activated again that encounter.

How about this for Overpower: Once per encounter the character may as a Maneuver suffer 3 strain and commit [FO] up to current Force rating. Committed [FO] can be rolled with ranged weapon combat checks, spending [FP] to add [SU][AD] to the result. Suffer 1 Strain per round per committed [FO].

1 hour ago, Jegergryte said:

How about this for Overpower: Once per encounter the character may as a Maneuver suffer 3 strain and commit [FO] up to current Force rating. Committed [FO] can be rolled with ranged weapon combat checks, spending [FP] to add [SU][AD] to the result. Suffer 1 Strain per round per committed [FO].

I really like this as a talent, but I have a coupe of thoughts.

1. I think it should be two talents, where one gives a less powerful version and a second where it upgrades it to Improved Overpower or something like that. The first tier could limit it to 3 rounds, or impose a larger strain penalty on subsequent checks. As it stands it's a talent that gives a massive mechanical buff, and - if combined with the agility buff in the Enhance tree - it could mean that combat is almost trivial in knight-level play. I think it should be harder to get as a result, but maybe that's just me.
2. I would specify Ranged(Light) and Ranged(Heavy) as the checks for which this is valid, because I'm not sure if it thematically fits having a gunslinger use this with Gunnery weapons. Just my opinion though.

Aside from these, as I said, I love the idea.