https://daveswargames.blogspot.com/2020/06/an-actual-real-life-honest-to-goodness.html

Why don't you see Madine as competitive? Just curious.

Well, he doesn't feature much in the top tournament results. For 30 points you can get Rieekan, who is the best rebel commander. And while his ability is cool, you can certainly run the same list with Rieekan (or Mon Mothma) and get much the same result.

Madine just lets you get an extra click of yaw - which is great - but how often during a battle do you need that extra click?

So mostly, people don't use him because people don't use him. I'm baffled by the love for Rieekan. I'd rather use a more active ability than his.

Post hoc ergo propter hoc.

Madine is less effective than Rieekan. They cost the same. Rieekan is, therefore, more efficient.

Tomorrow I am playing a game with Madine where my opponent has picked Rift Ambush from the choices I gave him. I think Madine will work better than Riekaan would. He will let me bring my Hammerheads in at speed 3 on very tight turns and so spend just 1 turn suffering his Starhawk's attacks before they get their own attack off.

On 7/1/2020 at 11:30 PM, LTD said:

Post hoc ergo propter hoc.

Madine is less effective than Rieekan. They cost the same. Rieekan is, therefore, more efficient.

Please explain it to me like a total noob. Why is he less effective? Is it in all fleet builds or on certain more common ones?

17 hours ago, Commodore Gardner said:

Please explain it to me like a total noob. Why is he less effective? Is it in all fleet builds or on certain more common ones?

A common strategy in Armada is "Kill your opponent's stuff before it kills you."

When fighting Rieekan, the strategy becomes "kill your opponent's stuff, but it can still kill you after you've killed it."

1 hour ago, Bertie Wooster said:

A common strategy in Armada is "Kill your opponent's stuff before it kills you."

When fighting Rieekan, the strategy becomes "kill your opponent's stuff, but it can still kill you after you've killed it."

Okay, but why is that better than not being killed in the first place by say, using Madine to arc dodge or gain double arcs yourself? It seems like Rieekan excuses mistakes rather than letting you avoid getting killed in the first place.

I might be able to confirm this after my game starting in 30 minutes (using a Rieekan Aceholes list for the first and probably only time), but I have been told that a benefit of Rieekan is that also messes with your opponent's decision-making. Your opponent must put more effort in identifying what to attack because 1) if the ship/squadron is destroyed then it can still be Rieekan'd or 2) if you fail to destroy the ship/squadron (when you could have destroyed something else), then it is likely going to remain at least another round because of Rieekan. Again, this is just what I have heard through podcasts and such.

57 minutes ago, Admiral Calkins said:

I might be able to confirm this after my game starting in 30 minutes (using a Rieekan Aceholes list for the first and probably only time), but I have been told that a benefit of Rieekan is that also messes with your opponent's decision-making. Your opponent must put more effort in identifying what to attack because 1) if the ship/squadron is destroyed then it can still be Rieekan'd or 2) if you fail to destroy the ship/squadron (when you could have destroyed something else), then it is likely going to remain at least another round because of Rieekan. Again, this is just what I have heard through podcasts and such.

Good luck. I have only played Rieekan aceholes once (got a very big win) but I have this list sitting in my Armada Warlords account. If only I had 4 hours to kill.

Faction: Rebel Alliance
Points: 396/400

Commander: General Rieekan

Assault Objective: Most Wanted
Defense Objective: Asteroid Tactics
Navigation Objective: Infested Fields

[ flagship ] CR90 Corvette A (44 points)
- General Rieekan ( 30 points)
- Jainas Light ( 2 points)
- Turbolaser Reroute Circuits ( 7 points)
= 83 total ship cost

CR90 Corvette A (44 points)
- Turbolaser Reroute Circuits ( 7 points)
= 51 total ship cost

CR90 Corvette A (44 points)
- Turbolaser Reroute Circuits ( 7 points)
= 51 total ship cost

CR90 Corvette A (44 points)
- Turbolaser Reroute Circuits ( 7 points)
= 51 total ship cost

GR-75 Medium Transports (18 points)
- Bright Hope ( 2 points)
- Toryn Farr ( 7 points)
= 27 total ship cost

1 Hera Syndulla ( 28 points)
1 Lando Calrissian ( 23 points)
1 Jan Ors ( 19 points)
1 Mart Mattin ( 22 points)
1 Wedge Antilles ( 19 points)
1 Corran Horn ( 22 points)
= 133 total squadron cost

1 hour ago, Commodore Gardner said:

Okay, but why is that better than not being killed in the first place by say, using Madine to arc dodge or gain double arcs yourself? It seems like Rieekan excuses mistakes rather than letting you avoid getting killed in the first place.

I've had some good experiences with Madine keeping a ship alive, for example to slip out of a blockade trying to trap a large base or dodge out of the arc of something scary. If you're first player though, you should already be able to double arc a ship, shoot it, and then leave. Madine doesn't really make that any better so I haven't found much improvement on the shooting side of things. If you're running away from squadrons instead of ships he also doesn't help, and a bunch of rogue squads will ruin your day. If you bring a bunch of your own squads Madine has fewer ships to help out so you may start to wonder if Rieekan wouldn't be better. Rieekan or Agate also allow you to fly more aggressively because removing your ship(s) is a bit harder. If you just want to womp your opponent's ships as fast as possible then Raddus is probably more helpful.

Maybe if Madine's token effect was more powerful he would free up your command dials to do something else, but as things are I don't often feel like I get 30 points of use out of him.

My Madine Fleet this morning worked well. I had 3 hammerheads as part of the fleet and ran them all at speed 3. They endured a round of long-range fire from my opponent's Starhawk and were then all on him at point blank range in his bow. Two of them died delivering black dice galore but the Starhawk exploded.

Sadly lost the game because on turn 6 I got 4 blank red dice out of 4 from one of my Nebulon Bs, and then he scored three perfect rolls on his attacks to destroy both my Nebulons - but I was happy with speed 3 Hammerheads under Madine!

9 hours ago, Commodore Gardner said:

Okay, but why is that better than not being killed in the first place by say, using Madine to arc dodge or gain double arcs yourself? It seems like Rieekan excuses mistakes rather than letting you avoid getting killed in the first place.

If Madine keeps your ships from dying I don't want to discourage you from using him. I'm all for using less popular commanders. As for mistakes--Ships and squadrons die all the time, not even always due to mistakes. Sometimes it's just bad luck with dice. Rieekan helps in those situations.