Futzing around a bit. I know my lists tend to go upgrade-heavy, but I get bored with the normal "just add another empty ship" thinking and prefer to try some fancy flying and synergy:

"Pure Sabacc" (44)
Elusive (3)
BT-1 (2)
Proton Bombs (5)
Shield Upgrade (6)

Ship total: 60 Half Points: 30 Threshold: 3

"Duchess" (42)
Juke (7)
Fifth Brother (11)
Proton Bombs (5)

Ship total: 65 Half Points: 33 Threshold: 2

Major Vermeil (49)
Predator (2)
Darth Vader (14)
0-0-0 (5)
Tactical Scrambler (2)

Ship total: 72 Half Points: 36 Threshold: 4


Total: 197

View in Yet Another Squad Builder 2.0: https://raithos.github.io/?f=Galactic Empire&d=v8ZsZ200Z210X119W79W69W165Y211X123W82W69WY183X127W26W63W110&sn=New Squadron&obs=

My idea is to keep Sabacc near the Major so that he can play off of possible stress induced by 0-0-0 while keeping those 4 dice attacks as long as possible due to the Tactical Scrambler. Duchess does her thing with zipping around and flanking.

Thoughts? "Dude, get a 4th ship instead" comments are perfectly welcome, but will also be slightly depressing.

Also, Happy Monday to you folks.

Sadly, yeah, it's get a 4th ship.

Juke's kinda always bad without free Evade actions. If you're planning to coordinate it over, just get Targeting Computer instead. Tactical Scrambler kinda never works. Even with defensive upgrades, Pure Sabacc doesn't stay healthy that long. With this many points tied up in weaker and hard to use upgrades, there just isn't a lot of meat to the list, nor enough dodgy. Bombs aren't bad, but if that's the only thing holding back a 4th ship, doesn't seem worth it to me.

For a 3-ship list, I think you'd need to go with something heftier as the 3rd ship. Maybe Whisper, but then you're fighting over the 5th Brother gunner. Vader-pilot rules out the crew, which is a sweet crew. Maybe a TIE Defender.

I'd go with one of three directions:

• Plain 3 Striker
  • Duchess (Predator, Fifth Brother) 55
  • Pure Sabacc (Crack Shot) 45
  • Major Vermeil (Crack Shot, Vader) 64
  • Planetary Sentinel (-) 31
    • 5 points extra. 0-0-0 on Vermiel, Sentinel to a Black Scout with Crack Shot, or a bomb. Or drop Duchess' Predator to Crack Shot for Shield on PS.
• 3 Strikers with Bombs
  • Duchess (Predator, Fifth Brother, Proton Bomb) 60
  • Pure Sabacc (Crack Shot, Proton Bomb) 50
  • Scarif Base Pilot (Vader) 53 - Vermeil is nice, but getting bombs on everyone is kinda cool, kinda unique.
  • Planetary Sentinel (Proton Bombs or Proximity Mines) 36-37
• 2 Striker 2 Reaper
  • Duchess (Predator, Fifth Brother) 55
  • Planetary Sentinel (-) 31
  • Scarif Base Pilot (0-0-0, Hull Upgrade) 47 - Alas, Pure Sabacc doesn't really fit in a 2/2 list, but this has a lot more meat on the bones.
  • Major Vermeil (Crack Shot, Vader, Hull Upgrade) 67
• BONUS! Three ship example!
  • Duchess (Crack Shot, Fifth Brother) 54
  • Major Vermeil (Crack Shot, Vader) 64
  • Rexler Brath (Crack Shot) 82
    • Could also be a Juke Onyx Pilot at 81, and give Duchess back her Predator.

I think you can have your cake and eat it too with another ship and still having more upgrades than I’m comfortable with on all of them!

"Pure Sabacc" (44)
Crack Shot (1)
Seismic Charges (3)
Targeting Computer (3)

Ship total: 51 Half Points: 26 Threshold: 2

"Duchess" (42)
Predator (2)
Proton Bombs (5)

Ship total: 49 Half Points: 25 Threshold: 2

Major Vermeil (49)
Crack Shot (1)
Minister Tua (7)

Ship total: 57 Half Points: 29 Threshold: 4

"Vagabond" (35)
Crack Shot (1)
Proximity Mines (6)

Ship total: 42 Half Points: 21 Threshold: 2


Total: 199

View in Yet Another Squad Builder 2.0: https://raithos.github.io/?f=Galactic Empire&d=v8ZsZ200Z210X116WW71W249Y211X127WW69WY183X116W49WWY395X116WW70W&sn=New Squadron&obs=

I think the main things I’ve noticed when trying to fly Strikers is that they’re sort of like TIE Interceptors, but with inferior arc-dodging capability and worse agility. They’re beautiful, super-cool, have excellent guns, and can do some really great, swoopy, how-did-you-end-up-there acrobatics, but they’re super fragile, and I have trouble making them the backbone of my lists, because if they get caught out, they’re essentially as survivable as Z-95’s, and that is not a good thing.

That said, I only own two, and I don’t think I’ve ever flown more than one at a time. Maybe flying a bunch of generics alongside a higher-priority target could work, if you keep them stripped-down and cheap. I think that the unique pilots make sense too, as their text tends to mitigate their weaknesses a bit; Duchess is far less predictable than the others because of her high initiative and optional use of Adaptive Ailerons. Countdown’s defensive text just allows you to take more hits than normal. Pure Sabacc gives you enough extra offense that being a glass cannon is okay. Vagabond... just doesn’t do anything for me.

So I guess what I’m saying is, you have some fragile, heavily-upgraded guys flying alongside a TIE Reaper, and while I freaking LOVE the Reaper (particularly Vermeil with Vader crew), it also is not the world’s toughest ship, and it won’t often be dodging any arcs (especially if you’re trying to use Vermeil and Vader’s text). So I think @theBitterFig is right; you need more beef in this list. Or a fourth ship. Maybe a beefy fourth ship, or maybe you drop a Striker and put in something tankier. (a Decimator maybe? Your original list certainly had enough extra upgrades that one of those 60+ point ships could turn into something ridiculously expensive). You could probably also try a miniswarm of Strikers alongside your Reaper. That might be interesting.

Good luck! I’m a huge fan of the Striker and the Reaper, but I think part of flying them successfully might just be realizing their limitations and optimizing them by letting them fly with wingmates that cover their weak spots.

Reaper/Sk/Sk/D

(49) Major Vermeil [TIE Reaper]
(14) Darth Vader
Points: 63

(31) Planetary Sentinel [TIE/sk Striker]
Points: 31

(31) Planetary Sentinel [TIE/sk Striker]
Points: 31

(74) Onyx Squadron Ace [TIE/D Defender]
Points: 74

Total points: 199

So, if you’re interested in getting your Reaper/double Striker on, but also wanna get some beef in there, you could try something like this. And yes, it’s VERY light on upgrades. But you could also pull the Onyx Ace for someone like (for example) a lightly-upgraded Major Vynder, and have probably 20 points sitting around to use on boosting the Planetary Sentinels back to uniques or giving them some upgrades (or both!).

1 hour ago, Cpt ObVus said:

Reaper/Sk/Sk/D

(49) Major Vermeil [TIE Reaper]
(14) Darth Vader
Points: 63

(31) Planetary Sentinel [TIE/sk Striker]
Points: 31

(31) Planetary Sentinel [TIE/sk Striker]
Points: 31

(74) Onyx Squadron Ace [TIE/D Defender]
Points: 74

Total points: 199

That's an interesting take, but instead of the Onyx Ace I would definitely prefer “Whisper” ( Passive Sensors , Fifth Brother ) for 71pts and you have 4 points to put a Shield Upgrade on Major Vermeil or spend them on something else.

Nice replies, all. I'm still mostly Slightly Depressed, but I'm gonna run a few matches in Fly Casual with the ideas here and, like throwing marshmallows at a cactus, see what sticks. 😄

Like others said, get a 4th ship, lol. They are fragile ships. Any 4th ship will do. Wampa or Gideon in tie fighter gets you another 3 die gun for cheap. With pure sabaac on the board, people wont be shooting wampa first. Gideon will mostly go untouched until sabaac and vermeil get taken off the board. I use to run Vader, Vermeil, Countdown, Gideon and Gideon was mostly ignored and put in a lot of work.

On 6/22/2020 at 10:52 AM, Vectivus333 said:

Thoughts?

Elusive :

Love it... When I have 3agi. On 2, it's just plain overcosted unless you've got a janky way to repeat red moves nearly every turn.

Use RUTHLESS.

_____

Actual squad: awesome. PSab and Dutchess and Vermeil loadouts are sweet (love your BT1+OOO... So fun).

With Empire, if I played your squad a few times, I'd likely follow this pattern of optimization:

-swap PBombs for SCharges.

Drop Elusive for Ruthless

Find a way to squeeze at least 1 Academy, preferably 2, to maximize Ruthless overkill potential.

Which means you'd eventually swap out Psabac for a cheaper Striker pilot, or drop everything off him and fly vanilla.

You goals with Elusive and Juke are not bad! I just know my pattern of optimization and that's just my two cents.

Let us know how it goes!

1 hour ago, Bucknife said:

Elusive :

Love it... When I have 3agi. On 2, it's just plain overcosted unless you've got a janky way to repeat red moves nearly every turn.

As to 2 dice vs 3 dice... it actually adds about as many evades per charge spent in either case. Whether or not you have a focus token seems to be a big part of things, IMHO.

In particular, I think Elusive is really sweet when you've got an easy means of having focus-type modification when you pull those red moves. I've pretty much stapled Elusive to Kad Solus, but wouldn't consider it on, like, a generic Starviper or E-Wing.

1 hour ago, Bucknife said:

Use RUTHLESS.

Just not with a 3-ship list. Having a few TIEs would go a long way. Likewise, I think the 3 Ruthless Black Scout, 3 Planetary Sentinel lists seem great, but that's because there is enough cheap health on the board to trade for damage those few times you need it.

The other worthwhile thing to keep in mind with Ruthless: usually don't use it. If you've got a good shot, and you think it'll help you finish off a ship this round, go for it. Otherwise? Save the health. I recall reading folks flying even 5 Black Scouts with Ruthless and Hull, and only using Ruthless like 3 times per game.

On the first attack against a full-health B-Wing? Maybe don't bother. Against a 2-health B-Wing? Light it up and secure that kill.

Vermail with Vader, Duchess, Sabacc and Countdown with Predator on each.

Reaper and three Strikers. Have fun 😅

TIE Salad

(42) "Duchess" [TIE/sk Striker]
(11) Fifth Brother
Points: 53

(49) Major Vermeil [TIE Reaper]
(14) Darth Vader
Points: 63

(31) Alpha Squadron Pilot [TIE/in Interceptor]
Points: 31

(31) Alpha Squadron Pilot [TIE/in Interceptor]
Points: 31

(22) Academy Pilot [TIE/ln Fighter]
Points: 22

Total points: 200

(The Ini.1 Interceptors could be Strikers, but the Interceptors are arguably better)