Hello 🙂

Recently my Party of Misfits (Players) in my Campaign began to think about wanting to upgrade from their trusty Ghtroc 720 (lovingly named "Lazy Dewback") to something bigger.

First idea they came up with was the Hammerhead Corvette.

I have the stats and all, but the Crew complement seems a bit weird fuzzy in the Dawn of Rebellion Book.

35 Officers, Crew , thats all 😕

So obviously the party won't be able to operate this kind of ship between the 4 of them, but I'm thinking what a minimum / skeleton crew would be for a ship of that size.

Has anyone dealt with ships like these before / used them in their campaign or for their parties?
Or has someone ideas on how to best approach this?

Thanks 🙂

Biggest ship I've dealt with is a C-ROC (80 meters) which has a pretty straight forward crew complement.

Minimum crew is listed on Wookieepedia as 1, so that's the short answer. Here's my longer answer that will hopefully give you some more to work with.

In my opinion, the skeleton (skeleton, not minimum) crew for just about any ship of sil 5 would be Pilot, Co-Pilot (optional, can fill different position), Engineer, and somebody to run around and operate comms, sensors, navigation etc. if those are functions that would normally be taken care of independently. You don't need a captain, and you don't need gunners, though they would be useful. Then there are positions like loadmaster (which may not be applicable in this case) that have disadvantages to ignoring, but aren't actually necessary for the vessel's operation.

A drawback to running with a skeleton crew is that you aren't going to be able to fire very many of the guns unless you give up other positions on the ship. The pilot/co-pilot wouldn't have controls for the laser cannons, because that's not their job. They would focus on flying, and you'd have someone whose job is firing the laser cannons (even if the controls are on the bridge). You'd have a captain coordinating the efforts.

Bridge crew for a fully staffed hammerhead I'm guessing would be something in the range of 8: Comms/sensors operator, Navigator, Pilot, Co-Pilot, two Gunners, the Captain, and the Exec.

Then you'd have miscellaneous personnel including a damage control group or two, probably coordinated by a chief engineer.

Bottom line, four is a sufficient number, probably distributed something like this: Pilot, misc., Gunner, and Engineer.

I think a minimum crew for just about any ship is "one logic unit". That could be a droid, or a person. I mean, Anakin shows up solo in a Venator, offers to surrender, then gets R2-D2 to pilot the ship into the Separatist command ship. So moving and piloting clearly only require on person at the helm. A team of four should easily be able to run it for a time, but they might not be able to keep up with shields or fire many guns (unless the guns are slaved).

I expect most of the crew numbers listed are for gunnery and maintenance, and boarding or ground assault. But the maintenance is the key: routine repairs and mynock cleaning that need to be done continually to avoid devolving into serious issues. The bigger ships have larger crews because they have work shifts.

I would say "yes, but...". Sure they can have the ship, but if they don't hire a crew, you are going to regularly roll for "maintenance". If they have a full crew (or close to it) then it's like a homestead, you just assume everything is running fine. Of course, the crew can become a source of conflict if they don't pay enough, they're too long in space, things are too dangerous, there's a traitor, etc. But other than story-goal stuff, the crew should keep them running like clockwork.

If they don't have a crew...just spitballing here, but you could roll an "attack" at intervals, start with G vs PPPPP (the difficulty dice results are favourable to the PCs) and slowly ramp up the attack level, or bring down the defense level, or both. This way they can accumulate hull damage (random space rocks) or generate crits ("your shields are down, you might have picked up some mynocks in your last port of call") or even mess with HT and ST (your engines need tuning, so your ST is lower until you make extensive repairs). The intervals and dice pool might vary depending on how much crew they have. If they have no crew, I'd start with GGG (update as desired with DP or whatever), or reduce the difficulty dice to PPP.

6 minutes ago, whafrog said:

If they don't have a crew...just spitballing here, but you could roll an "attack" at intervals, start with G vs PPPPP (the difficulty dice results are favourable to the PCs) and slowly ramp up the attack level, or bring down the defense level, or both. This way they can accumulate hull damage (random space rocks) or generate crits ("your shields are down, you might have picked up some mynocks in your last port of call") or even mess with HT and ST (your engines need tuning, so your ST is lower until you make extensive repairs). The intervals and dice pool might vary depending on how much crew they have. If they have no crew, I'd start with GGG (update as desired with DP or whatever), or reduce the difficulty dice to PPP.

@Fl1nt , you can look at the Operational Costs houserules for good ideas about this. I know I always bring them up, but they really are fantastic. (I also added that crits cost 1,000*difficulty in parts to repair. A ship can hold 1k*Sil credits' worth of parts to repair, and further parts are 1 encumbrance per 1k credits' worth)

9 minutes ago, whafrog said:

I expect most of the crew numbers listed are for gunnery and maintenance, and boarding or ground assault. But the maintenance is the key: routine repairs and mynock cleaning that need to be done continually to avoid devolving into serious issues. The bigger ships have larger crews because they have work shifts.

Based on precedent, marines would generally be classified under "Passengers" of which the Sphyrna can carry over a hundred.

As for gunnery, there are only 3 guns so it wouldn't be that big a deal. I definitely agree about work shifts, that thought hadn't even occurred to me.

Thanks for the feedback 😃

Yeah they're definitely going to need some form of crew in my opinion.

I saw the Minimum Crew: 1 on Wookiepedia, but that refers to some wacky episode of the Rebels TV-Show (yeah I know it's a kid's show, but oh my god do they dont care about logic... I really dont like that show but thats besides the point).

I really like the idea to generate "wear and tear" due to not crewing the ship properly, that's a really good way to hammer the point home of needing a crew. (And oh yeah I love the Work-Shifts idea).

I have already some times skimmed over the Operational Costs houserules but haven't needed them much as of now. (I honestly didn't really expect my group of scum and villainy characters wanting a large ship like that) xD
I'll definitely take another look now, although I'll probably only take a few things since these Operational Costs are really detailed and crunchy in some parts and that doesn't really fit our play-style; but Ideas and inspirations are always great 🙂

I'm really excited to see if they will go through with the idea, I'd love them having a space-base / homestead 🙂

Thanks again for the really good ideas and feedback 😃

Just now, Fl1nt said:

I have already some times skimmed over the Operational Costs houserules but haven't needed them much as of now. (I honestly didn't really expect my group of scum and villainy characters wanting a large ship like that) xD
I'll definitely take another look now, although I'll probably only take a few things since these Operational Costs are really detailed and crunchy in some parts and that doesn't really fit our play-style; but Ideas and inspirations are always great 🙂

For fuel for a sil 5 ship, I double cell capacity and double cell cost. (a full tank costs 4 times as much, but it can go twice as far)

I go about reasoning like this:

Ignore a tv show made for kids where the lightsaber users regularly deflect VEHICLE SCALE weaponry with PERSONAL SCALE weaponry or where they land , infiltrate AND escape from a Star Destroyer (at least the prison ship episode of Mando was more believable). I basically set down the rule: IGNORE ALL THE TV SHOWS and Disney Canon, there's too much contradiction or retconning.

Utilize your own judgement so that later on the players can't whine about a judgment not in their favor - I've seen it happen a few time from GROWN ADULTS at an RPG club i used to go to, jacked it in after 6 games as it as like playing with children. 35 Officers could mean a number of NCO's (team leaders like chief engineer, chief gunner, chief comms with 2-6 people in their command).

if they want to play with the big boys with a 'grown up' ship let them but personally I'd impose 'big boys' toys' rules.... feuling, wages, inter-crew politics, maintenance, BoSS filing and paperwork I think 4 to run a Corvette is way too generous.

One plot idea is they take on a bunch of crew who they think aren't linked only to find out their new crew is a bunch of shipjacking pirates or one of them is infected and the crew need to be locked down or one of them is an ISB agent or a sociopathic murderer bumnping off the crew or etc etc.

But more importantly have fun. (I still think four crew for any ship that size or larger it too generous)

I do watch Rebels and CW but don't apply their story writing logic to the RPG... I think Holocrons should be extremely rare and valuable, not have dozens locked in a vault... I mean, come on, storing ALL the information on ONE holocron about all future force sensitive children,.. facepalm... and it's the only repository in the galaxy. At least in D&D there was direct reference that Candlekeep had a back up site.

If you want to have additional npc's in the ship to help them with some basic functions, there are a few ways to go about this.

If purchasing

Use their negotiation skill. Have the seller include a few droids or crew members. (If they are getting a bit too rich payroll is a good way to chip away at their credits too).

If Requisitioning

Perhaps the crew currently residing their is about to overthrow their captain and hire the group to do it. They can't pay them in credits, but they can give them a nice ship. Or vice versa. A captain and a few loyal crew members need the rest of their crew killed off, and in payment, the ship would be theirs to use and they would work for them.

If you prefer droids for the group, a couple astromech droids can help control a few basic functions. (Albeit they won't have great rolls.)

Also, as @DidntFallAsleep66 mentioned, you can use the ships crew to secretly work against the crew. Have they killed a few Imperial Officers? One of the crew works for the ISB. Has the group ripped off a Hutt? One of the crew could work for that Hutt. Has the group ripped someone off? Maybe that guy has friends in lots of places - like this ship. Hope this helps!

15 hours ago, Sear_Clone said:

If you want to have additional npc's in the ship to help them with some basic functions, there are a few ways to go about this.

If purchasing

Use their negotiation skill. Have the seller include a few droids or crew members. (If they are getting a bit too rich payroll is a good way to chip away at their credits too).

If Requisitioning

Perhaps the crew currently residing their is about to overthrow their captain and hire the group to do it. They can't pay them in credits, but they can give them a nice ship. Or vice versa. A captain and a few loyal crew members need the rest of their crew killed off, and in payment, the ship would be theirs to use and they would work for them.

If you prefer droids for the group, a couple astromech droids can help control a few basic functions. (Albeit they won't have great rolls.)

Also, as @DidntFallAsleep66 mentioned, you can use the ships crew to secretly work against the crew. Have they killed a few Imperial Officers? One of the crew works for the ISB. Has the group ripped off a Hutt? One of the crew could work for that Hutt. Has the group ripped someone off? Maybe that guy has friends in lots of places - like this ship. Hope this helps!

Good points as well 🙂

I'll be honest, the Party has no real way of getting a Ship this large (and Pricey) without using Obligation or Plot to get it 😉
They have been doing well rewarded jobs, but nowhere near what a ship would cost; so either they ask some of their contacts if they can vouch & lend them some credits or they need to find a vessel of that type that's in use and come up with a plan how to commandeer said vessel.

16 hours ago, DidntFallAsleep66 said:

I go about reasoning like this:

Ignore a tv show made for kids where the lightsaber users regularly deflect VEHICLE SCALE weaponry with PERSONAL SCALE weaponry or where they land , infiltrate AND escape from a Star Destroyer (at least the prison ship episode of Mando was more believable). I basically set down the rule: IGNORE ALL THE TV SHOWS and Disney Canon, there's too much contradiction or retconning.

Utilize your own judgement so that later on the players can't whine about a judgment not in their favor - I've seen it happen a few time from GROWN ADULTS at an RPG club i used to go to, jacked it in after 6 games as it as like playing with children. 35 Officers could mean a number of NCO's (team leaders like chief engineer, chief gunner, chief comms with 2-6 people in their command).

if they want to play with the big boys with a 'grown up' ship let them but personally I'd impose 'big boys' toys' rules.... feuling, wages, inter-crew politics, maintenance, BoSS filing and paperwork I think 4 to run a Corvette is way too generous.

One plot idea is they take on a bunch of crew who they think aren't linked only to find out their new crew is a bunch of shipjacking pirates or one of them is infected and the crew need to be locked down or one of them is an ISB agent or a sociopathic murderer bumnping off the crew or etc etc.

But more importantly have fun. (I still think four crew for any ship that size or larger it too generous)

I do watch Rebels and CW but don't apply their story writing logic to the RPG... I think Holocrons should be extremely rare and valuable, not have dozens locked in a vault... I mean, come on, storing ALL the information on ONE holocron about all future force sensitive children,.. facepalm... and it's the only repository in the galaxy. At least in D&D there was direct reference that Candlekeep had a back up site.

Oh definitely, they might be able to for a very short trip manage to operate such a vessel but nowhere near full functionality.
They will need some sort of Crew for any Ship this size.

And yeah you're probably right that a ship that large is too generous (but that's often my flaw as a GM.... too generous 😕 )
Come next session this will be discussed before starting I think, regarding how serious they are about this and what a ship of that size might mean.

6 minutes ago, Fl1nt said:

And yeah you're probably right that a ship that large is too generous (but that's often my flaw as a GM.... too generous 😕 )

That's an interesting word, "generous". Why would it be "generous" to allow them to get a Sil5 or 6 ship? These things come with their own set of problems, not least of which is a LOT more attention, never mind the mundane stuff like crew and financing. There's always a way to balance things out, whether crudely with more powerful antagonists, or shrewdly with plots and accidents and judicious use of the narrative dice, or both.

I think the idea of misplaced generosity stems from D&D, where if you did get that +X Vorpal Blade too soon in the power curve, it throws everything off. Your PC is now racking up XP at an alarming rate, burning through the GM's challenges more easily etc, and it makes the whole character arc, which is highly dependent upon levelling, that much shorter (never mind making the GM's store-bought campaign obsolete).

But that doesn't really apply in this game. The power curve is far flatter, and the character arc is less dependent on XP because the XP accumulation mechanic isn't tied to the number of kobolds killed or gold pieces gathered.

Just MHO, but the only thing that should be holding you back is a) whether you want the story to go there for plot reasons; b) whether you can come up with simple mechanics to deal with crew and financing in a way that satisfies your need for some level of verisimilitude while not becoming a burden for you or your players.

4 minutes ago, whafrog said:

That's an interesting word, "generous". Why would it be "generous" to allow them to get a Sil5 or 6 ship? These things come with their own set of problems, not least of which is a LOT more attention, never mind the mundane stuff like crew and financing. There's always a way to balance things out, whether crudely with more powerful antagonists, or shrewdly with plots and accidents and judicious use of the narrative dice, or both.

I think the idea of misplaced generosity stems from D&D, where if you did get that +X Vorpal Blade too soon in the power curve, it throws everything off. Your PC is now racking up XP at an alarming rate, burning through the GM's challenges more easily etc, and it makes the whole character arc, which is highly dependent upon levelling, that much shorter (never mind making the GM's store-bought campaign obsolete).

But that doesn't really apply in this game. The power curve is far flatter, and the character arc is less dependent on XP because the XP accumulation mechanic isn't tied to the number of kobolds killed or gold pieces gathered.

Just MHO, but the only thing that should be holding you back is a) whether you want the story to go there for plot reasons; b) whether you can come up with simple mechanics to deal with crew and financing in a way that satisfies your need for some level of verisimilitude while not becoming a burden for you or your players.

Thanks,
thats a very good way of seeing things!

I never played / GM'd D&D, but I'm often quite selfconscious about how I'm doing as the GM and doubting myself as I try to hold myself to high standards, but that also makes stuff like this really hard sometimes;

I honestly needed to read this right now.

Late to this conversation regarding reduced crews.

Strongholds of Resistance on page 60 includes:

Light Crew : Over 1/2, but less than full. All checks at 1 Setback.
Skeleton Crew : Over 1/4 to 1/2 full crew. All checks are upgraded once.

I've added house rule notes of:

When computing requirements for a Light or Skeleton Crew, the referee may decide to not include gunnery positions if they are not manned.

The referee may allow operation of a vehicle below even a skeleton crew (1/4 or less). This will only be possible on a case by case basis and all checks will be upgraded at least once. In addition, the referee may call for a delay between vehicle actions of 1 round per Silhouette of the vehicle (the crew has to run around a lot and/or do the jobs of several to get a task done).