23 hours ago, micheldebruyn said:

Only things that happen in the movies are relevant here, not stuff other writers later added to it, whether they make sense or not. Whose to say Owen wouldn't call the Empire if he knew crazy old Ben was actually wanted war criminal Obi-Wan Kenobi.

Why is that only relevant? The movies show a tiny speck of each characters lives. You're pointing out a supposed contradiction, but one that can be easily explained or reasoned through. Why does the film have to address it?

Doesn't make a lot of sense to me, and just seems like someone looking for holes needlessly.

On 6/22/2020 at 6:43 PM, micheldebruyn said:

Only things that happen in the movies are relevant here, not stuff other writers later added to it, whether they make sense or not. Whose to say Owen wouldn't call the Empire if he knew crazy old Ben was actually wanted war criminal Obi-Wan Kenobi.

Nothing in the movies preclude Anakin visiting the grave.

I just chark it down to expansionist syndrome. Back then jabba was just a typical gangster with a makeover. Then they gave them a small empire and chucked tons of stuff on top of that.

In universe explanation? He delegated all the real works to plebs and chilled out in his holiday home. Boom, I’ve solved the EU and gave that skill in his palace a backstory! XD

On 6/18/2020 at 11:10 AM, Daeglan said:

Obi Wans dialogue with Luke is not contradicted by Attack of the Clones.

The only “real” contradiction AotC made to Obi Wan’s statement was when Palpatine stated that the Republic stood of only “a thousand years .” This contradicts Obi Wan’s statement in ANH that the Jedi has been the guardians of peace and justice in the Old Republic for over a thousand generations .

On 6/20/2020 at 1:48 PM, micheldebruyn said:

Here's the thing... Owen doesn't know Anakin, and Obi-Wan really doesn't know Owen. They never met on film.

Obi-Wan is painting Luke a picture of himself, Anakin, and Owen all knowing each other very well back in the day when they didn't.

Honestly, I can't think of any reason why someone would defend a reading of the text in which Obi-Wan does not come off as a manipulative liar.

I mean, even if every last thing you said is true, then he's still picking and choosing his words to paint Luke a picture of his family history that is not completely made up.

Owen and Obi Wan did meet in the films, albeit briefly. This happened when Obi Wan delivered infant Luke to the Lars at the end of ROTS.

Even if we just consider what’s in the movies, it’s perfectly understandable why both Owen and Obi-Wan would lie to Luke about his past. Is the most likely IRL reason for this a lack of interest in maintaining a perfectly consistent canon over the years? Sure. But an in-world justification is perfectly obvious as well.

That aside, I think it’s a fool’s errand to expect perfect canonical consistency in Star Wars. It’s very obviously never been the goal of anyone in charge of the universe at any point in time, and it never will be, either. They’ll always favor what they believe to be a compelling story over making the canon fit together like a well crafted puzzle. Personally, I think this is the right way to approach things, even though I understand why this rubs people the wrong way.

That and people have a tendency to be imprecise or inherently elaborate in their speech patterns, thus only a terrible movie would have their characters tell precise information all the time, especially the members of society of strong political alignment, seniority or the folk who sell their skills.

For example, Both Chinese and Japanese martial arts traditions of late for example contain a lot of fluff and ineffective metaphor and rubbish which is incredibly artistic to the impressionable, but is frankly a disservice to present as a genuine technique. Just by the time most students figured it out, they’ve invested too much time and capital to really back down. We as a society sell one another lies, so characters should do too.

I got pretty big vibes off obi-wan of that, that his Spiel has much to do start this impressionable young man onto a path of destiny, that by the time Luke found out about the deception it didn’t really matter; The once young man had turned into a seasoned warrior on a collision course with the Sith. Hence the dodgy old man got his wish and Luke became the warrior he thought his father to be, even if it wasn’t as the deal he signed up for. Just thankfully for Luke, at least the old man taught him enough of what he needed to know.

On 6/25/2020 at 8:57 AM, LordBritish said:

I just chark it down to expansionist syndrome. Back then jabba was just a typical gangster with a makeover. Then they gave them a small empire and chucked tons of stuff on top of that.

Jabba as “portrayed” in Star Wars , ESB , and maybe even RotJ makes much more sense if he’s just any old gangster than it does if he’s one of the most powerful gangsters in the galaxy.

Maybe he's one of the most powerful that's left because the empire squeezed the rest in hutt space. But because he's outside, on the fringe, he's overlooked.

On 6/23/2020 at 1:43 AM, micheldebruyn said:

Only things that happen in the movies are relevant here, not stuff other writers later added to it, whether they make sense or not. Whose to say Owen wouldn't call the Empire if he knew crazy old Ben was actually wanted war criminal Obi-Wan Kenobi.

Well...

Obi-Wan does go to Owen and Beru at the end of the third movie... to hand over Luke.

Now, if they didn't know him and Anakin very well, that would be a very strange thing to do... just showing up on someones doorstep saying "this kid's your nephew, raise him as if he was your own... oh and he belonged to Anakin, who you have basically never met, but make sure you talk to Luke about him as if he was reckless and someone he shouldn't follow the footsteps of."

It obviously implies that Anakin and Obi-Wan had more than a passing relationship with Owen and Beru.

Just because it didn't happen to be shown in the movie doesn't mean it never happened.

On 8/22/2020 at 1:27 PM, LStyer said:

Jabba as “portrayed” in Star Wars , ESB , and maybe even RotJ makes much more sense if he’s just any old gangster than it does if he’s one of the most powerful gangsters in the galaxy.

Agreed...

It's the same inflation of the movie characters that has been happening since day one...

Instead of inventing new things outside the scope of the movies, everyone and their grandma had to be super-duper-mega-special in some way just because they were in the movie. ****, every single little two-bit extra had a massive backstory in the end, that usually involved them doing unbelievable things... I mean, according to the EU, one of the sand troopers that stop Obi-Wan in Mos Eisley was originally an engineer who discovered the AT-AT's vulnerability to being taken down by a tow line, but he was demoted for shaming the designers or something like that... It's pretty stupid.

Jabba works best as a mid-level gangster. Whatshisface in Solo feels more like a high-level gangster to me.

On 6/19/2020 at 11:35 AM, Vorzakk said:

Did any writer every address Obi-Wan's comment about Owen's attitude towards Anakin.

"He thought he should have stayed here and not gotten involved."

He was already 'involved' the first time they met.

Was this chalked up to another random Obi-Wan lie?

ESB “only” establishes that Vader is Luke’s father. At that point it’s possible Obi-Wan didn’t know, and thus didn’t lie to Luke. RotJ establishes that Vader was Anakin, and that Obi-Wan knew that in Star Wars and lied to Luke in hopes that he’d commit patricide. As of RotJ , anything Obi-Wan said to Luke can be assumed to have been manipulation to patricidal ends.

7 hours ago, OddballE8 said:

Agreed...

It's the same inflation of the movie characters that has been happening since day one...

It’s small universe (galaxy) syndrome. Too many connections means too many coincidences.

Tatooine isn’t the plant farthest from the bright center of the universe. It’s the planet where the Force chose to cause the virgin birth of the Chosen One, that the most powerful gangster in the galaxy calls home, and where The Ship That Did The Kessel Run in twelve parsecs is parked. Oh, and about that ship? The dude who rides shotgun fought a major battle alongside the Grand Master of the Jedi order.

And that’s BEFORE we even get into the EU deciding that the third alien from the left if you freeze frame at a minute sixteen during the Cantina scene is Very Important.

And that's why it's special.

On 8/31/2020 at 2:03 AM, LStyer said:

It’s small universe (galaxy) syndrome. Too many connections means too many coincidences.

Tatooine isn’t the plant farthest from the bright center of the universe. It’s the planet where the Force chose to cause the virgin birth of the Chosen One, that the most powerful gangster in the galaxy calls home, and where The Ship That Did The Kessel Run in twelve parsecs is parked. Oh, and about that ship? The dude who rides shotgun fought a major battle alongside the Grand Master of the Jedi order.

And that’s BEFORE we even get into the EU deciding that the third alien from the left if you freeze frame at a minute sixteen during the Cantina scene is Very Important.

I really hate that ****...

There's countless quadrillions of sentient creatures on millions of populated worlds... but because of the strange messiah complex that EU writers seem to suffer from, every bloody one of the people depicted in the movies have to be ooooh soooo special... and the planets that are in the movies are the most visited and trafficked planets in the galaxy... Tatooine? A backwater planet on the outer rim that has no importance? Yeah, I've been there... so has everyone else... everyone knows Tatooine... from the lowliest street urchin on Coruscants lowest levels to the most esteemed nobleman on the frontier planets, they all know of this one "unknown" and remote planet that has so little traffic that smugglers and lowlifes hang out there...
And that crime lord Jabba? Yeah, he has less wealth and opulance than the local drug dealer at the end of my street, but I toooootally buy that he's one of the most powerful crime lords in the entire galaxy...

I mean... it makes no damned sense!

Why not explore the rest of the galaxy?

That's what I liked about the old Star Wars Adventure Journals by West End Games... they actually described the world OUTSIDE the movies.

But in most of the EU stuff, there must have been some insane amount of inbreeding and such because everyone was related to someone in the movies or had worked with them or at least met them fleetingly.

On 8/30/2020 at 8:03 PM, LStyer said:

And that’s BEFORE we even get into the EU deciding that the third alien from the left if you freeze frame at a minute sixteen during the Cantina scene is Very Important.

Ah, Star Wars universalization. That's no man in a porter's uniform and rubber mask -- it's the subject of a 7-page soliloquy, because no one in Star Wars is incidental!

Over the years I've noticed a stark divide between fans who focus on the original story and fan who focus on the original setting. Both are fine ways to enjoy Star Wars but only one orientation expands the franchise.

20 minutes ago, wilsch said:

Ah, Star Wars universalization. That's no man in a porter's uniform and rubber mask -- it's the subject of a 7-page soliloquy, because no one in Star Wars is incidental!

Over the years I've noticed a stark divide between fans who focus on the original story and fan who focus on the original setting. Both are fine ways to enjoy Star Wars but only one orientation expands the franchise.

And then there's me, who knows who Kabe is, yet also theorizes about the proper political systems for galactic government. And weirder stuff like hotel accommodations for unusual alien species, refreshers, bars, age of majority laws, inter-species... relations , allowances for different cultures, availability of suitable vehicles for specific physiology, etc.