Yes on the culture thing.

Jabba has done his magic...

I don't want to jam up the IC thread, this is going to be a long one.
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During each round of battle a General may reroll a single d6 for each “bonus” they have. The same d6 may be rerolled multiple times. Alternatively, the General can use a bonus to force the opponent to reroll a single d6. The Attacker will use rerolls before the defender, or pass. Once both sides have used their rerolls or have passed, the result is determined.

[...]

For example: A green army attacks a red army in a province. Green has an army of nine units, including 2 artillery and a cavalry. Red has seven units, with 1 artillery and no cavalry. Green gains two rerolls for artillery and cavalry superiority. Red has a Military Doctrine Level (MDL) of five, Green has an MDL of three. Red gains two rerolls. Red did not move this turn, but was instead “defending” the province, and has a Military Hero present. Red gains two more rerolls. The terrain is normal, so no bonus.
Green rolls a 5 and a 3 = 8. That’s a hit, but Green wants a “double” so uses a bonus to rerolls the 5, getting a 1, for a total of 4. Green decides to hold onto their final reroll to see what happens.
Red rolls a 6 and a 6 = 12. That’s a double, but more than the seven units they have in the province. Red has four total rerolls. They use one to roll a 6 into a 2 (6+2=8, still not a hit). They use another reroll to turn the other 6 into a 3. They use one more reroll on the 3, getting another 2. Red now has a double 2, so they will score 2 hits on the enemy. Red thinks about using the final reroll to make Green reroll a d6, but the Green target is 9 (nine units) and they have a 1 and a 3, so there is no result that can prevent a hit, and there is a risk of letting the enemy get a double. Red decides to wait.

Green uses their final reroll to force Red to reroll one of their d6s, hoping to stop the double. Red rerolls and gets a 6. 6+2=8, so now Red isn’t even scoring a hit!

But Red has a final reroll and uses it to roll their 6 into a 5. Phew! Both sides score a hit.
A second round of combat follows unless one side decides to retreat. During each round of combat the “bonus” rerolls are restored - so use up your rerolls each round!
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I have a question but I'll have to type it later.

"The Attacker will use rerolls before the defender, or pass. Once both sides have used their rerolls or have passed, the result is determined." I originally thought this meant the attacker uses all rerolls before the defender, but in fact the example you give suggests back-and-forth is allowed.

Also, should the attacker roll his original dice pool first? I'm not sure if it matters statistically. Yesterday I rolled first.

Anyway, let's go back to the first round from yesterday's battle as an hypothetical "how it should have happened" example. I had 11 units and he had 13. I was defender. We both had two rerolls. I rolled 1, 1. GNIP could make me reroll one of those dice. So let's say GNIP uses one reroll, I reroll one and get a 4. I reroll the 4, hoping for a 1. I get a 3. GNIP and I have both used 1 reroll.

GNIP gets a 6, 3. GNIP waits. I make him reroll the 3, which turns into a 6. Now GNIP uses his final reroll to reroll a 6, turning it into a 2.

Is this how it works? I'm not sure about that last part especially, since GNIP used his reroll after mine--but I used up all my rerolls.

Yes, there is meant to be a back and forth.

The initial dice pools can be rolled in any order - simultaneously is fine or ideal. But the attacker should decide to use any rerolls first, just because.

Your example is correct. Either player can use a remaining reroll, as long as they have at least one, and both players have not passed on the chance to use a reroll previously.

I've made some minor changes, and added a section about multiple armies moving and such. I'm not sure if it's a good thing.

"Once all players have placed orders, they are revealed, and armies move simultaneously. A player may choose NOT to follow a movement order placed - the army instead remains in its province. Such declarations MUST be made in declining MDL order."

What is the reason for this? It seems like the game would just take longer if people can take back their order.

22 minutes ago, Bertie Wooster said:

"Once all players have placed orders, they are revealed, and armies move simultaneously. A player may choose NOT to follow a movement order placed - the army instead remains in its province. Such declarations MUST be made in declining MDL order."

What is the reason for this? It seems like the game would just take longer if people can take back their order.

Although, I am tempted to do so. . .

15 minutes ago, GhostofNobodyInParticular said:

Although, I am tempted to do so. . .

I made my declaration; we technically have to wait for @LTD to make his declaration.

But if you're staying in place, then there's no battle.

It feels like this is going to increase our playing time significantly. It wouldn't be so bad if we were playing in real time. We'll see I guess.

4 minutes ago, Bertie Wooster said:

I made my declaration; we technically have to wait for @LTD to make his declaration.

But if you're staying in place, then there's no battle.

It feels like this is going to increase our playing time significantly. It wouldn't be so bad if we were playing in real time. We'll see I guess.

Indeed. But I don't like @LTD 's move to Ikom.

41 minutes ago, GhostofNobodyInParticular said:

Indeed. But I don't like @LTD 's move to Ikom.

Maybe a way we could speed it up in the future is to say "if LTD moves to Ikom, I will not move to Etung" or something like that in the original campaign orders.

Then resolve it according to MDL.

13 minutes ago, Bertie Wooster said:

Maybe a way we could speed it up in the future is to say "if LTD moves to Ikom, I will not move to Etung" or something like that in the original campaign orders.

Then resolve it according to MDL.

That could work.

Yeah I’m not sure it’s a good idea. I guess I’m just chucking it out there as an idea.

Let’s cut it for our game - it will just increase delay.

6 minutes ago, LTD said:

Yeah I’m not sure it’s a good idea. I guess I’m just chucking it out there as an idea.

Let’s cut it for our game - it will just increase delay.

So GNIP and I fight after all?

1 hour ago, LTD said:

Yeah I’m not sure it’s a good idea. I guess I’m just chucking it out there as an idea.

Let’s cut it for our game - it will just increase delay.

Says the person planning on attacking me. . .

Says the guy who bought 15 of 21 available units...

@GhostofNobodyInParticular you could always retreat after one round of battle if you want to guard your open areas.

I'm thinking about the MDL, and now reckon it should be like the culture rankings - instead of being a number, it's just a "play the card to rise above the side above you" kind of thing.

Otherwise people will get stuck at the bottom forever, falling further and further behind. Thoughts?

Maybe, but then it's hardly worth it to make MDL one of your advantages. I'm already regretting choosing culture as an advantage--Having higher culture isn't as big of an advantage as I thought it would be (it would probably be better if the nobility stuff came into play).

I've had some more thoughts about combat.

As we've discussed in the discord, the massive armies makes the combat pretty boring. The attacker just has to bring more troops (over 12), guarantee 3 hits, and win the battle.

So, as we discussed:

Option B - the system stays much the same, except that the die roll has to be 8 or less to score a hit. If an army is smaller than 8, it still has to roll its number of units or less to hit.

Or here is another system:

Option C - Something a bit different - each side rolls 2d6 + 1d6 for each bonus (artillery, cavalry, etc). Then, starting with the attacking player, they can spend one of their d6 to cancel one of the opponent's d6s. Once a side has 2d6, they cannot have any more d6s removed. The round ends once one side is down to only 2d6. They score a hit on a roll of 8 or less (counting any two remaining d6 if you have more than 2). If there is a double, they score two hits.

Bonuses could be something like:
Artillery superiority, Cavalry Superiority, Larger Force (more units total), Hero, Fortified Position, Defending Difficult Terrain...

So Example:

Green Army has three bonuses, Red is attacking with two bonuses.

Green rolls 5d6 (base 2 + 3 bonus) = 6, 5, 5, 4, 1.

Red rolls 4d6 (base 2 + 2 bonus) = 6, 4, 4, 2.

Since red is attacking, they can spend a d6 to cancel one of their opponents. Red spends a 6 to cancel Green's 1.

Green spends their 6 to cancel a Red d6 - in this case, to cancel a 4 to prevent the enemy having a double.
Green still has a 5, 5, and a 4. Green chooses 2 of these, but scores more than 8, so no hit.

The advantage of this option c is less rerolling, so a bit quicker, but the result has more decision making (of a sort), and should be a bit more unpredictable/interesting.

Thoughts?

We could roll some dice after this game is over to test both options. I like the idea of option C in theory. Right now I think having more units > more rerolls, but having more bonuses in option C could actually be really valuable, especially for smaller clusters of units.

Hello friends!

I had some extra thoughts today and decided to revisit these rules (no, I'm not avoiding that stupid essay! You are!).

https://docs.google.com/document/d/199oRUe-46Wfstq9X-QHEQym6czuFb4fnvADUzz0ET64/edit?usp=sharing

Here is a 1.4 version of the rules.

Specifically, combat on page 6 is the big change. Please give it a read and provide your thoughts.

Battles

Battles can be resolved simultaneously across the map. The Control player will be available to settle disputes or answer questions.

For each unit in their army each player rolls 1d6. Any result of 1 is a hit. A result of 2 is a hit, up to the number of cavalry units. A result of 3 is a hit, up to the number of artillery units.

For Example: The Green player has an army with five infantry, four cavalry, and 1 artillery. 10 d6 are rolled. The following results are rolled: 5, 4, 3, 3, 2, 2, 1, 1, 1, 1. The four 1s are automatically hits. The two 2s are also hits, thanks to the Cavalry. Only one of the 3s is a hit as the army only has 1 artillery unit. The army scores 7 hits on the enemy.

Terrain, fortifications, and heroes can reduce the number of hits suffered from an enemy attack. The side which takes the higher number of hits must retreat. If tied, the side with the lower MDL retreats. If tied, the lower culture retreats.

As an enemy force retreats, the victorious player may roll one d6 for each cavalry unit they have in excess of the enemy cavalry units. A result of 1 or 2 is a hit, and the enemy takes those additional losses. Armies that cannot retreat are destroyed.

COMBAT MODIFIERS

The side with the Superior Military Doctrine will ignore one hit inflicted by the enemy.

A force that was “foraging” would roll one half (rounded up) of dice to determine hits.

A force that had prepared defences would take one third (rounded down) less hits from the enemy.

Defenders in difficult terrain (Mountains, Woods) would take one third (rounded down) less hits from the enemy.

A side with a military hero present may choose any d6 result as a hit, but must then roll another d6. If that result is less than the first d6, the hero is killed in action.

For example: In the Green Army example above 7 hits were scored. The Green player might choose a d6 result of 3 as a “hero hit”. All the lower number dice results are already hits. The 3 is the lowest number that is not a hit. The Green Army has now scored 8 hits. A further d6 is rolled - on a result of 3 or higher, the hero will live. On a 1 or 2, the hero will be killed and removed from the game.

Let’s assume that the Green Army is attacking a Red Army that had prepared defences in a province with difficult terrain. The Red Army has superior military doctrine to Green.

The Green Army has scored 8 hits. Red removes one for superior military doctrine (7 hits remain). One third are removed (rounded down) for prepared defences (5 hits remain). Another third (rounded down) are removed for difficult terrain. The Red Army would lose 4 units in total.

The Red Army consists of three infantry and four cavalry. 7 d6 are rolled to determine hits. They roll 6, 6, 5, 2, 2, 2, 1. This means four hits are scored (one 1, and the three 2s - there are four cavalry). Since both sides have scored equal hits, the side with the lowest Military Doctrine Level must retreat - Green must retreat.

Both sides have four cavalry units present - so Red does not get to make a Cavalry pursuit roll.

Battle rules look much better. MDL still seems very strong. Culture, not so much.

It would be helpful to state in the rules "if you boost tradition, it does this" or "if you choose military as a weakness, it does this." Not knowing that info in the last game felt like I was just guessing when choosing boosts and weaknesses.

Thanks for the feedback. I will revisit some things.

Is there any interest from forum associates to have another game of this?

5 hours ago, LTD said:

Thanks for the feedback. I will revisit some things.

Is there any interest from forum associates to have another game of this?

I am interested.

I'm interested. I think 4 players would be a lot more fun.