If you had to fly supernatural reflexes Kylo ren (100pts), what do you partner him up with?

My first thought was 4x epsilon cadets, but then no bid.

Then I thought backdraft, Rivas, Epsilon. That's a 9 or bid. Too big of a bid?

Any other 100 pts of FO suggestions are welcome.

@Hoarder of Garlic Bread

Backdraft, Rivas, and Epsilon sound to be decent backup. Since you have only 1 true 3 die gun in the list, you could beef them out/upgrade. Rivas is a great blocker. 9 pt of bid will take you places, but with no I6 friend, not really needed.

I was runner up to an HST (albeit only 25 players 5 rounds cut to 8 ) giving Super Kylo some Advanced Optics. With 1 force, just focusing and using Optics highly increases dps, makes him more defensive for those shots he can't Dodge, reduces the opportunities to make action mistakes, can double mod against things out of lock range, and can let you double mod against something that doesn't have your disengage turn's lock. Wingmates were Fanatical Gunner FCS Quickdraw (just trade against enemy I6 or carefully engage the edge of beef 1v1) and Rivas (then a 28 pt diversion, blocker, or force multiplier with QD's locks, depending on the situation). Using the invite from that tourney, I went 4-3 at World's. A slightly luckier player (by 1 defensive paint) or a more skilled player not making my mistakes would probably have made cut if taking the list.

Bid is optional. Phil Horny won the Krayt US Top 50 invitational with Super Pattern Kylo, Fanatical FCS Pattern QD, and Null...0 bid. He also made cut at Adepticon. I prefer to run some bid because I'm not an X Wing god, but QD's ability and Optics do great jobs of dealing with moving first. With the TIE/ba ship ability on Vonreg, I will bid for reasons obvious: the need for more information than the opponent as to the best situational self-nerf and self-buff.

I've tried pairing a tricked out Vonreg and just do an FO Guri Fenn but better, and it has done well in a 4 game tournament and very well in a lot of pickup games. However, in the LA and Sydney Spacejams, I've experienced absurdly wacky variance that rendered any effort useless in some of my losses (add to that making frustrated/fatigued/despaired mistakes afterwards, and you end up with the 3-3 and the 2-3-Drop I've had). 2 ship lists are fine in the meta to a point: it's just better to crank out red dice buckets than hope your fewer but higher quality shots and obligatory rounds of defending don't stab you in the gut, kick your gasping body into the dirt, and proceed to run over your corpse with a truck. Thus, if doing Super Kylo, aim for at least 3 ships.

4 epsilon's are good Kylo friends. @TriggerHappyTaco did very well with the standard munition Kylo of Instinctive Aim, Optics, and Torpedoes + 4 Epsilon's. Makes me want to dust off that Kylo + TN3465 + 3 Zeta's, but this time, actually fly it patiently.

15 minutes ago, Hoarder of Garlic Bread said:

4 epsilon's are good Kylo friends. @TriggerHappyTaco did very well with the standard munition Kylo of Instinctive Aim, Optics, and Torpedoes + 4 Epsilon's. Makes me want to dust off that Kylo + TN3465 + 3 Zeta's, but this time, actually fly it patiently.

Since you invited me over here, I'll share some of my thoughts:

Super Kylo is basically a decked out AS Guri but in the wrong faction to make it work. Other than Tavson, FO doesn't have a heavy hitter that is hard enough to kill. And Tavson isn't even great for the role, because if you loose kylo, you just loose the game. For this reason, the people who were playing Kylo/Tav last year actually ended up preferring sense on Kylo instead, because like Guri, Kylo is vulnerable to an enemy list with multiple I-6s. Scum has access to Dengar and Fenn, who are able to hold their own and not evaporate when shot at like Vonreg or an SF. They can more effectively trade with enemy arc-dodgers for a good endgame condition, while SNR Kylo's friends are not. Not only that, but SNR is a huge win-more card. You wreak lol initiative ships even harder, but still loose to aces. This is actually why I created that Instinctive Optics Torp strategy. It was great at catching the I-6s available in the store champs hyperspace season, which helped my win all my Boba/Fenn matches, which would normally be a very hard matchup for Kylo+Friends. For these reasons, I prefer a better anti-ace strategy, instead of focusing on dunking on those generics.

That said, if you do want to run SNR Kylo, go for it! It's definitely fun for the Kylo player. My personal recommendation is to just use 3 Cadets. They're super efficient and are surprisingly sturdy, which is exactly what you need with your super ace. You can totally upgrade one to Rivas or Scorch but remember that if you are taking SNR Kylo the deep bid is already necessary. Happy Kylo Flying!

- Taco

Thank you guys so much for the thoughts. I'm working on a list that has a certain level of forgiveness in it the way SNR does. My brother is getting is feet wet in X wing and doesnt always have the foresight to make the best move with his ace. He really enjoyed Holo + 4 optics zeta sfs, but made a few mistakes with holo and it felt bad. Working with him on a SNR Kylo team where he gets to let his ace be an ace and not die so quick. I thought this would be a good training list and once he gets good with the reflexes, maybe take em off and beef up the list another way. Proton torpedoes were another option we are looking at to make sure Kylo can hit like a truck.

Also were looking at Kylo + 2 fanatical +optics silencers. Lots of choices. Maybe I should broaden the topic to FO training wheels ace lists?

Thank you for reading and responding to this ramble.

First: I'd use Pattern Analyser at 105.

Secondly: 2 Provocateurs, Scorch/Muse/Rivas, Tavson/Rivas

Provocateurs are tempting. That's a lot of firepower if left on their own. But if an opponent ignores Super-Kylo, he's probably unstoppable late-game.

Proton torp kylo, naked vonreg, and naked ps1 silencer made top 4 or 8 in a big tourney before covid.

So maybe something like Vonreg and malarus.

Vonreg i6 and can help against i5s you lose bid too. And good blocker versus those i6s.

Malarus. Not a name you hear...ever, and not a silencer, but in a 3 ship list he can just tank anything. I feel like a third ship for 40ish points is almost giving opponent points versus swarm lists. Backdraft, scorch, etc will get obliterated in a round or two.

Super kylo and vonreg are elusive. Going after malarus is basically a waste of their first two attacks.

Versus a droid swarm, all with calcs. Four at range 3, four at range 2. Malarus takes an evade, and triggers his ability. The aces are gonna be spread enough to where you know malarus needs to trigger his ability or not.

Wow. @wurms that's crazy how much he can tank. I'll need to look into malarus then. I was trying out super Kylo + QD and Rivas. QD is good but will die and if she doesnt take the enemies 6 with her, Kylo is sad

Okay so super Kylo + vonreg + malarus is 195. Is giving vonreg daredevil worth it? I feel like yes because Kylo can get by with a 3 pt bid if vonreg can scare off an enemy 6. What is the bidding war like these days?

I've had fun with Malarus as the 4th ship along side 3 Init 1 Silencers. She's pretty neat. Not a great list, but fun.

I played SR Kylo a lot:

I played him with Quickdraw in a 2 ship list and it was always fun but you’re probably not going to win a lot tournaments with it. Kylo is awesome but QD isn’t the wingman you want.

@Ryuneke do you thinj a third ship would help? I dont think i could live on the razors edge with only two ships

16 hours ago, Ryuneke said:

I played SR Kylo a lot:

I played him with Quickdraw in a 2 ship list and it was always fun but you’re probably not going to win a lot tournaments with it. Kylo is awesome but QD isn’t the wingman you want.

I had a lot of success with Kylo and Quickdraw, including winning a faction prize at U.K. Nationals. The key is not to be too precious about Quickdraw dying, so long as she takes 70+ points with her and clears out anything that can threaten Kylo (Fenn, Anakin, Vader, Guri) on the way.

It’s a difficult way to play and requires a lot of patience, but few things in the game are as satisfying as looking at six ships staring Kylo down and thinking, “Yeah, I got this.”

9 hours ago, Amc879 said:

@Ryuneke do you thinj a third ship would help? I dont think i could live on the razors edge with only two ships

But living on the razors edge is whats this game is all about...at least for me 🙂 Because of that I will never field a 3 ship list with SR Kylo so I don't know what wingmans are best. You have a ton of options of course. But I can't live with the fact of only having a 5 point bid. You'll lose matches because of that. With Kylo+QD or Guri+Fenn I don't have to worry about that. I know I am moving last.

And btw: I never left the hangar without primed thrusters on Kylo. With this upgrade you can use SR anytime, even while double stressed. It also counters panicked pilot. It's the best upgrade on Kylo imo