46 minutes ago, Coranhann said:He pulled off too far away from Hoth, going with safety regulations instead of Vador's aggressive approach, giving time to the Rebel scums to prepare an escape plan. IIRC.
I'm pretty sure is the other way around. Ozzel pulled of too close to Hoth and that's why Vader choked him. Why is that a reasonable reason I dunno, but that was indeed.
You are 100% right, I just checked. I stand corrected !
How is it that pulling out of hyperspace too close to the system warned the rebels beats me...
3 minutes ago, Coranhann said:You are 100% right, I just checked. I stand corrected !
How is it that pulling out of hyperspace too close to the system warned the rebels beats me...
Because their hyperspace exit makes a big energy splash and is easy to detect, contrasted with exiting hyperspace further out and moving in more stealthily.
46 minutes ago, Coranhann said:You are 100% right, I just checked. I stand corrected !
How is it that pulling out of hyperspace too close to the system warned the rebels beats me...
If they pulled out further away from Hoth, the Empire could (in theory) have hidden their ships among asteroids and bombarded the base from orbit as a surprise attack.
Ozzel sort of caught the Rebellion by surprise, but as soon as the Empire arrived, Rieekan (I think) put up an energy shield to protect the base from bombardment until they made their escape. The Empire was forced to make a ground assault and they lost m en and resources.
On 6/2/2020 at 10:10 PM, Darth Sanguis said:
or
They literally do the game version of their movie gimmick. lol
Ahh, but technically, Raddus was on the large ship that jumped in during the movie. The card requires that he be in play first before the large ship is called in.
I don't think he escaped on the Tantive IV? So not sure why there is an option to move the commander from the Profundity onto the small ship. Unless maybe one is running a Leia commander and Raymus..
3 hours ago, Muelmuel said:Ahh, but technically, Raddus was on the large ship that jumped in during the movie. The card requires that he be in play first before the large ship is called in.
He was on The Profundity during the battle, he called in a hammerhead from hyper space?
3 hours ago, Muelmuel said:Unless maybe one is running a Leia commander and Raymus..
Pretty much this.
On 6/2/2020 at 7:45 PM, ovinomanc3r said:Not sure about the last part. Sure the DSI is gone but one thing remains: the Empire are willing to wipe out any opposition. Definitely the Battle of Yavin is a loss, but an imperial occupation is good news for any planet where people don’t like the Empire since Alderaan.
At the end, they never needed the Desth Star to almost erradicate entire races from their planets.
The Death Star is a debacle on military and political grounds alike^^
15 minutes ago, Stefan said:The Death Star is a debacle on military and political grounds alike^^
And even being such didn't avoid most system still feared what the Empire was capable of.
Given that Sloane just showed up giving orders in the Star Wars Squadrons trailer, im going to say shes getting a lot more thematic
May I submit Hera Syndulla for most thematic. A true ace pilot with a flying fortress of a ship, and also the ability to command other squadrons and bring out their potential. FFG did an excellent job doing Hera justice!
I'm a big fan of Gauntlet Fighters thematically. Not terribly threatening as weapons platforms, but full of terrifying shock troops that are in your ships killing your dudes. Now if only Raid was good....
On 6/3/2020 at 10:22 PM, Bertie Wooster said:If they pulled out further away from Hoth, the Empire could (in theory) have hidden their ships among asteroids and bombarded the base from orbit as a surprise attack.
Ozzel sort of caught the Rebellion by surprise, but as soon as the Empire arrived, Rieekan (I think) put up an energy shield to protect the base from bombardment until they made their escape. The Empire was forced to make a ground assault and they lost m en and resources.
It's true that if the Imperial Fleet had exited hyperspace further away from Hoth, like on the opposite side of the asteroid field, the Star Destroyers wouldn't have been immediately detected by the Rebel Base -- that's what General Rieekan had said. However, the logic doesn't track that Vader would've ordered an orbital bombardment of the Rebel Base on Hoth if Ozzel had approached the planet more stealthily. It stated in ESB's opening crawl:
QuoteThe evil lord Darth Vader, obsessed with finding young Skywalker, has dispatched thousands of remote probes into the far reaches of space....
If Vader had ordered his fleet to bombard Rebel Base from orbit, he would've risked killing Luke in the indiscriminate bombing. I don't think that was Vader's plan of attack.
QuoteVADER That is the system. And I'm sure Skywalker is with them. Set your course for the Hoth system. General Veers, prepare you men.
Vader ordered Veers to prepare his army before Ozzel ordered the fleet to hyperjump to the Hoth system, which implies he always planned to attack the Rebel Base using ground forces. Or, Vader foresaw that Ozzel would botch the approach to Hoth and it would be necessary for Veers to deploy his army to the surface.
It was Veers who reported that the Rebel Base was protected by an energy shield and stated it was strong enough to deflect any bombardment from the fleet. Veers was probably pleased that the base was protected by the shield because it was an opportunity for him to lead the surface attack and impress Vader.
Vader's goal was to capture Luke, or capture his friends to lure Luke into a trap. I suspect that if Ozzel hadn't given away the Imperial Fleet's presence, Vader would've had the fleet hang back from the planet, blend in among the asteroids, and Vader would've led a small strike force to Hoth aboard Lambda shuttles, and tried to infiltrate the Rebel Base and capture Luke.
Maybe we’re having problems figuring out what Ozzel did wrong vs what Vader’s expectations were because Vader just wanted to get his murder on before the invasion and said some BS before he did it so it would seem like he had a real reason.
5 hours ago, Tayloraj100 said:Maybe we’re having problems figuring out what Ozzel did wrong vs what Vader’s expectations were because Vader just wanted to get his murder on before the invasion and said some BS before he did it so it would seem like he had a real reason.
I reckon Ozzel was already marked by Vader, which is why he came along to make sure the job was done properly.
The other thing is that it was an Admiral Byng moment, 'pour encourager les autres'.
On 6/20/2020 at 12:56 PM, Reavern said:It's true that if the Imperial Fleet had exited hyperspace further away from Hoth, like on the opposite side of the asteroid field, the Star Destroyers wouldn't have been immediately detected by the Rebel Base -- that's what General Rieekan had said. However, the logic doesn't track that Vader would've ordered an orbital bombardment of the Rebel Base on Hoth if Ozzel had approached the planet more stealthily. It stated in ESB's opening crawl:
If Vader had ordered his fleet to bombard Rebel Base from orbit, he would've risked killing Luke in the indiscriminate bombing. I don't think that was Vader's plan of attack.
Vader ordered Veers to prepare his army before Ozzel ordered the fleet to hyperjump to the Hoth system, which implies he always planned to attack the Rebel Base using ground forces. Or, Vader foresaw that Ozzel would botch the approach to Hoth and it would be necessary for Veers to deploy his army to the surface.
It was Veers who reported that the Rebel Base was protected by an energy shield and stated it was strong enough to deflect any bombardment from the fleet. Veers was probably pleased that the base was protected by the shield because it was an opportunity for him to lead the surface attack and impress Vader.
Vader's goal was to capture Luke, or capture his friends to lure Luke into a trap. I suspect that if Ozzel hadn't given away the Imperial Fleet's presence, Vader would've had the fleet hang back from the planet, blend in among the asteroids, and Vader would've led a small strike force to Hoth aboard Lambda shuttles, and tried to infiltrate the Rebel Base and capture Luke.
Good points. I would like to bring up another alternative for Vader though, which is that if his intention was to capture Luke, and they could sneak up on the rebels unhindered, Vader would want to make sure Luke can't escape and therefore possibly bombard their craft,escape routes and the generator instead of the base itself. Veers and company would still be used to mop up and capture Luke. Ozzel only made the operation harder and with the possibility of Luke escaping (which he did)
On 6/4/2020 at 9:03 PM, Darth Sanguis said:He was on The Profundity during the battle, he called in a hammerhead from hyper space?
Pretty much this.
Hmmmmm. Now let me see if it's possible to make Leia and Raymus work with Profundity
3 hours ago, Muelmuel said:Good points. I would like to bring up another alternative for Vader though, which is that if his intention was to capture Luke, and they could sneak up on the rebels unhindered, Vader would want to make sure Luke can't escape and therefore possibly bombard their craft,escape routes and the generator instead of the base itself. Veers and company would still be used to mop up and capture Luke. Ozzel only made the operation harder and with the possibility of Luke escaping (which he did)
Vader wasn't going to infiltrate the rebel base. That's ridiculous. He didn't sneak into Tantive IV to get the plans, he assaulted it. A ground assault makes sense for Vader's purposes, a sneak op makes no sense for Vader's character.
The orbital bombardment still makes sense, it's not like they were gonna demolish the rebel base. There were defense positions that could have been wiped out more easily from the orbit. Not everyone orbital bombardment must be like a Death Star shot.
The less bloody the battle is the better chances of getting Like alive. Taking them by surprise and being able to neutralize defense from orbit makes the assault easier and quicker. Less casualties, more prisoners. Execute whatever you don't need and done.
Ozzel ruined this. The shields were up and the ion cannon protected to cover the already prepared evacuation ships. The rebel could stood and fight to get some extra time.
1 minute ago, ovinomanc3r said:Vader wasn't going to infiltrate the rebel base. That's ridiculous. He didn't sneak into Tantive IV to get the plans, he assaulted it. A ground assault makes sense for Vader's purposes, a sneak op makes no sense for Vader's character.
The orbital bombardment still makes sense, it's not like they were gonna demolish the rebel base. There were defense positions that could have been wiped out more easily from the orbit. Not everyone orbital bombardment must be like a Death Star shot.
The less bloody the battle is the better chances of getting Like alive. Taking them by surprise and being able to neutralize defense from orbit makes the assault easier and quicker. Less casualties, more prisoners. Execute whatever you don't need and done.
Ozzel ruined this. The shields were up and the ion cannon protected to cover the already prepared evacuation ships. The rebel could stood and fight to get some extra time.
Yes, I agree on this. 🙂 When I said that he would sneak up on the base I meant he would take it by surprise, and still all out assault Vader style.
I don’t understand how dropping out of light speed further away would give the rebels less time to prepare?
Vader kills Ozzel for character purposes - to show that Vader is really evil / ruthless. If Vader wanted the fleet to drop out at range he could have ordered that beforehand. That he didn’t is his own stupid fault.
8 minutes ago, LTD said:If Vader wanted the fleet to drop out at range he could have ordered that beforehand. That he didn’t is his own stupid fault.
He did. That's why it's Ozzel's fault.
6 minutes ago, ovinomanc3r said:He did. That's why it's Ozzel's fault.
In what source? Vader's orders are pretty vague in the movie. "Set your course for the Hoth system."
Orders ought to be fairly vague - "1st company, take that hill". That's how you get the best from your skilled, trained soldiers.
6 minutes ago, Bertie Wooster said:In what source? Vader's orders are pretty vague in the movie. "Set your course for the Hoth system."
My fault. Dunno why I recalled him pointing that out before Ozzel screwing it up.
I just checked the script and the movie. He said nothing. However I noticed an ISD flying backwards (minute 20 if someone want to check it). I want a Michael Jackson maneuver for my ISD now!
EDIT: 20:10-20:15 to be more precise.
Edited by ovinomanc3r21 minutes ago, ovinomanc3r said:However I noticed an ISD flying backwards (minute 20 if someone want to check it). I want a Michael Jackson maneuver for my ISD now!
EDIT: 20:10-20:15 to be more precise.
That should replace Ozzel's current ability.
1 hour ago, LTD said:I don’t understand how dropping out of light speed further away would give the rebels less time to prepare?
Vader kills Ozzel for character purposes - to show that Vader is really evil / ruthless. If Vader wanted the fleet to drop out at range he could have ordered that beforehand. That he didn’t is his own stupid fault.
Bosses frequently give incomplete or vague instructions and blame their underlings for the consequences. This is basic workplace dynamics, especially when they didn’t particularly like those underlings to begin with. Given the autocratic command structure, I would imagine the problem would be exacerbated in the Imperial Navy, especially considering Vader’s extramilitary status.