Mirandiana Jones and the Turrets of Doom

(42) Miranda Doni [BTL-S8 K-wing]
(3) Seismic Charges
(5) Proton Bombs
(14) Han Solo
(8) Barrage Rockets
(3) Advanced SLAM
(6) Adv. Proton Torpedoes
Points: 81

(40) "Dutch" Vander [BTL-A4 Y-wing]
(3) R3 Astromech
(14) Ezra Bridger
(5) Ion Cannon Turret
Points: 62

(34) Kyle Katarn [HWK-290 Light Freighter]
(3) Baze Malbus
(2) Engine Upgrade
(18) Moldy Crow
Points: 57

Total points: 200

With Kyle passing Focus around, and Dutch passing Locks around, I’m hoping everyone will have ample action economy to double-mod their attacks, spin their turrets, or do whatever else needs doing. Wanted to squeeze Jake Farrell in here, couldn’t quite make it work, so there may be some fat to be trimmed. Thoughts welcome!

5 hours ago, Cpt ObVus said:

Mirandiana Jones and the Turrets of Doom

(42) Miranda Doni [BTL-S8 K-wing]
(3) Seismic Charges
(5) Proton Bombs
(14) Han Solo
(8) Barrage Rockets
(3) Advanced SLAM
(6) Adv. Proton Torpedoes
Points: 81

(40) "Dutch" Vander [BTL-A4 Y-wing]
(3) R3 Astromech
(14) Ezra Bridger
(5) Ion Cannon Turret
Points: 62

(34) Kyle Katarn [HWK-290 Light Freighter]
(3) Baze Malbus
(2) Engine Upgrade
(18) Moldy Crow
Points: 57

Total points: 200

With Kyle passing Focus around, and Dutch passing Locks around, I’m hoping everyone will have ample action economy to double-mod their attacks, spin their turrets, or do whatever else needs doing. Wanted to squeeze Jake Farrell in here, couldn’t quite make it work, so there may be some fat to be trimmed. Thoughts welcome!

Trimming the fattest of fat (Adv Proton Torps, Advanced SLAM, Seismic Charges, R3 Astromech, Ezra, Baze, Engine Upgrace) leaves you with -2 points, so you'll probably also need to drop the ion to Dorsal Turret to get Jake to fit. This gives you a leaner team with more ships, while keeping the core combo intact on Miranda.

Miranda Doni (42)
Barrage Rockets (8)
Han Solo (14)
Proton Bombs (5)
Ship total: 69 Half Points: 35 Threshold: 5

"Dutch" Vander (40)
Dorsal Turret (3)
Ship total: 43 Half Points: 22 Threshold: 4

Kyle Katarn (34)
Moldy Crow (18)
Ship total: 52 Half Points: 26 Threshold: 3

Jake Farrell (36)
Ship total: 36 Half Points: 18 Threshold: 2

Total: 200

View in Yet Another Squad Builder 2.0: https://raithos.github.io/?f=Rebel Alliance&d=v8ZsZ200Z17XW97WW84WWW69WY27XW137WWWWWY48XWWWWW156Y50XWW&sn=Unnamed Squadron&obs=

IMO proxying Esege in would probably cover Jake + Kyle's role better. I know you don't have a 2nd k-wing model, but if you have conversion kit cardboard for the 2nd k-wing you can field it without a model on the stand. (that's what I meant by proxy in the other thread -- no need to go buy a 2nd K-Wing model!)

Otherwise, you might consider trimming another bit of fat: remove Moldy Crow to give Kyle either Perceptive Copilot or, if desperate, Baze. Kyle's role is primarily support so he can survive not having 3-dice attacks. You'll have points left over to add back in some stuff like Ion Cannon Turret, Advanced SLAM, Seismic Charges, etc.

Jake might like a missile and/or some talents (crack shot, predator, etc) to cover his weak primary attack.

Dutch might like Veteran Turret Gunner... but I've found he's normally not worth loading with the points needed for double-tapping.

Delayed Fuses are handy on Miranda if she's not taking Advanced SLAM, though Adv SLAM may be better overall...

Lots of options of where to take it. Here's an example:

Miranda Doni (42)
Barrage Rockets (8)
Han Solo (14)
Proton Bombs (5)
Delayed Fuses (1)
Ship total: 70 Half Points: 35 Threshold: 5

"Dutch" Vander (40)
Ion Cannon Turret (5)
Ship total: 45 Half Points: 23 Threshold: 4

Kyle Katarn (34)
Perceptive Copilot (8)
Ship total: 42 Half Points: 21 Threshold: 3

Jake Farrell (36)
Crack Shot (1)
Concussion Missiles (6)
Ship total: 43 Half Points: 22 Threshold: 2

Total: 200

View in Yet Another Squad Builder 2.0: https://raithos.github.io/?f=Rebel Alliance&d=v8ZsZ200Z17XW97WW84WWW69W236Y27XW138WWWWWY48XWW54WWWY50X116WW99&sn=Unnamed Squadron&obs=

Oh, I should mention the reason I removed various upgrades:

Adv Proton Torps: Always extremely fun, but lots of things had to go to make room for Jake and you already have rockets

Advanced SLAM: Hard to give up, but Miranda's core combo can live without it.

Seismic Charges: Very useful, but also dependent on the positions of obstacles which limits their use while fleeing (while proton bombs are just universally good). Ideally you'd have both, but we needed the points.

R3 Astromech: Fancy, but Dutch doesn't need it. He has no lock munitions, and with Ezra gone he's not double-attacking, and he's going to target lock just about every round to support allies so he doesn't need a backup lock for future rounds.

Ezra: Easiest removal of them all. Ezra's not worth the giant points sink for the effect he provides. And to include Jake, you can't afford to keep him.

Baze: It's nice to have a discount Perceptive Copilot, but... Baze is not great. Having to ram your delicate HWK into range 1 and stress him to get Baze's effect is just not great. Also, we were still short on points.

Engine Upgrade: Handy to have, but we needed those two points and the HWK survives without it.

Ion Cannon Turret: Dorsal does fine and it's nice that it's pure damage. Though if we can afford it, best to get Ion back because the control aspect is so useful!

Moldy Crow: I love this upgrade and I try very hard to include it in my Jan Ors fleets. But it's also rough to pay for it when everyone else is clamoring for upgrades, and since Kyle is primarily there for his support ability, we can spare the points. Still, it's good to have another 3-dice attacker if you don't think you need anything else.

@Wazat

Nice, thanks. Gives me a couple different directions to go in.

I did think of some of those angles, but once I realized that I could turret up on all of the ships in the list, and could ensure double mods on most (if not all) of my attacks, I decided this might be worth leaning into. I also liked that between the various upgrades, all three of these ships are capable of getting 3+ attack dice at least some of the time.

I’ll probably revisit this if it doesn’t work very well, maybe try out a U-Wing in place of Esege, see if I can fit in an ace-y third (like your original suggestion of Wedge). In any event, thanks for the tips!

20 hours ago, Wazat said:

Seismic Charges: Very useful, but also dependent on the positions of obstacles which limits their use while fleeing (while proton bombs are just universally good). Ideally you'd have both, but we needed the points.

Agree with everything else, but the bomber choice is a somewhat subjective opinion you will find differences of. I would rather take Seismic and leave Protons because I feel it is more flexible in use and a couple points cheaper so you can keep or get another upgrade.

Set up by trying too get obstacles in clusters of a little under r2 from each other to give more choices of which one to detonate with the bomb. You have to be confident through with a tight obstacle field to get the benefit of flexibility though without busting yourself, but if you can acclimate I think it's worth it.

So this ended up getting taken apart badly by Plo Koon, Obi-Wan, and Anakin’s Delta-7, all with CLT and Foresight. I managed to trap Plo early and overwhelm him, and my bombs did great things against Anakin, who escaped on 1 hull, but Obi-Wan wrecked me. I couldn’t touch him.

The K-Wing really needs a turnaround maneuver, or an option to get rid of the Disarm on a SLAM. Even with three turreted ships, it was horrifically difficult to keep the Deltas in arc. And CLT is rough. Miranda lasted about three shots. Granted, I think I blanked on greens almost every time, but... I dunno. It never really had a chance.

Many interesting fleets struggle against triple aces. They're the meta's main gatekeeper and likely always will be. The list does a lot better against other stuff though, particularly swarms and beef. And as you've seen, it has some solid tricks even against aces, but it still struggles against 'em if the foe is really squirrely. And as I said in the other thread, the list isn't meta-strong but against non-meta it's a lot of fun.

Trouble turning around without a k-turn is the main struggle I've had with the K-Wing too. It needs time to bail and come back around as a hit & run platform, or to use its bombs while foes give chase. Advanced SLAM really helps with reloading bombs and running, but it can be tough to clear that stress and still maneuver properly (2 straight and SLAM 2 turn gets really predictable so you have to mix it up).

Sorry your first try with the fleet was so brutal. 😞 I've bailed on fleets before too because a hard-counter meta list (almost always aces) just wrecked the fun.

11 hours ago, Wazat said:

Many interesting fleets struggle against triple aces. They're the meta's main gatekeeper and likely always will be. The list does a lot better against other stuff though, particularly swarms and beef. And as you've seen, it has some solid tricks even against aces, but it still struggles against 'em if the foe is really squirrely. And as I said in the other thread, the list isn't meta-strong but against non-meta it's a lot of fun.

Trouble turning around without a k-turn is the main struggle I've had with the K-Wing too. It needs time to bail and come back around as a hit & run platform, or to use its bombs while foes give chase. Advanced SLAM really helps with reloading bombs and running, but it can be tough to clear that stress and still maneuver properly (2 straight and SLAM 2 turn gets really predictable so you have to mix it up).

Sorry your first try with the fleet was so brutal. 😞 I've bailed on fleets before too because a hard-counter meta list (almost always aces) just wrecked the fun.

I will say it was a bit of an eye opener. The Force is an excellent mechanic, but having nine Force distributed across three ships was something I hadn’t yet encountered. It felt quite a bit like 2 dice wasn’t enough to even bother attacking with, unless ALL of my ships were able to focus fire (which happened exactly never). It was also pretty amazingly frustrating to have three turreted ships (theoretically amazing coverage), and quite often have all of them get arc dodged.

1 hour ago, Cpt ObVus said:

I will say it was a bit of an eye opener. The Force is an excellent mechanic, but having nine Force distributed across three ships was something I hadn’t yet encountered. It felt quite a bit like 2 dice wasn’t enough to even bother attacking with, unless ALL of my ships were able to focus fire (which happened exactly never). It was also pretty amazingly frustrating to have three turreted ships (theoretically amazing coverage), and quite often have all of them get arc dodged.

Yup, when people talk about triple aces (specifically: well-modded, arc-dodgy, high-init ships) being NPE, this is what they mean. Many, many, many very interesting and fun ships, pilots, and whole fleets simply don't matter when pitted against triple aces. They're the great gatekeeper to the meta, and if someone's flying triple aces against you (at least, flying them correctly), you know you're in for one of the game's hardest challenges. Many, if not most fleets the average player flies have little to no response to aces, mainly the cagey aces playstyle. Some people talk about aces being not that big of a deal, and when they do, they're unknowingly signaling that they themselves play the top meta and don't experiment with much else. 😉

Now that said, it can be a lot of fun to accept that you'll lose and just push as hard as possible with a non-meta list, practicing over and over again, trying to figure out how to leverage your list's power against different meta fleets and cover for its weaknesses. That's what I did with Wullffwarro War Crimes and I had a lot of fun, and found I could be pretty effective against lots of meta and near-meta fleets. But ultra-cagey aces were objectively better than the junk I was running, and I kinda didn't stand a chance against the fleet that beat me. And then Blail Blerg had a lot to say about that across multiple threads; his words basically boil down to "if it can't reliably beat triple aces, it's garbage".

When Boom Owl complains about triple aces, this is his complaint. I just... strongly disagree with his solutions. 😄

7 hours ago, Wazat said:

When Boom Owl complains about triple aces, this is his complaint. I just... strongly disagree with his solutions. 😄

Yeah, like I say, it was a new experience having three Force-capable aces to fly against. But rather than price them into oblivion, the playing field is probably better leveled by creating new cards which help even the odds against these sorts of lists.

I already mentioned things like an individual pilot ability that neutralizes the Force on a guy like Jango Fett. I think there are other available options; more upgrades that are cheaper for mid-initiative and low-initiative ships might help, and things like cheap squad upgrades (sort of like Squad Leader, only... better) that might allow one ship on your team to take a reposition action at i7, but only if your ships are all i4 and below. Kind of a free Coordinate.

I guess what I’m saying is I much prefer the idea of “additive,” rather than “subtractive” solutions. My opponent made a good list, flew it well, and we had a blast. I don’t want him to lose access to that list, I just want to see creative options to help fight it.

just tried list from this topic

Miranda Doni BTL-S8 K-wing (78)
Barrage Rockets + Han Solo + Cluster Mines + Proton Bombs + Delayed Fuses
"Dutch" Vander BTL-A4 Y-wing (47)
Ion Cannon Turret + R4 Astromech
Esege Tuketu BTL-S8 K-wing (74)
Barrage Rockets + Perceptive Copilot + Cluster Mines + Proton Bombs + Delayed Fuses

It works well, but I want to drop devices from Esege and add some firepower to Dutch. My reworked list:

Miranda Doni (42)
Diamond-Boron Missiles (6)
Han Solo (14)
Proximity Mines (6)
Proton Bombs (5)
Delayed Fuses (1)

“Dutch” Vander (40)
Saturation Salvo (5)
Dorsal Turret (3)
Proton Torpedoes (13)
R4 Astromech (2)

Esege Tuketu (44)
Barrage Rockets (8)
Perceptive Copilot (8)
Tactical Scrambler (2)
Total: 199

View in Yet Another Squad Builder 2.0

On 6/6/2020 at 8:36 PM, Cpt ObVus said:

I already mentioned things like an individual pilot ability that neutralizes the Force on a guy like Jango Fett.

I wish the Chancellor had been something like this. One side of him could have preventing force spent when attacking or defending from him. Flip side provides a range one/two? bubble of no force spending.

After points changes there is ver5 of my favorite rebel list so far

Actually, I have a problem how to spend 4 points. Now I'm thinking about Shield Upg for Dutch..but not sure it's the best option.

Proximity mine is also can be changed for something else.

Miranda Doni (40)
Adv. Proton Torpedoes (5)
Diamond-Boron Missiles (6)
Han Solo (12)
Proximity Mines (6)

Ship total: 69 Half Points: 35 Threshold: 5

"Dutch" Vander (40)
Ion Cannon Turret (5)
Proton Torpedoes (13)
R4 Astromech (2)
Shield Upgrade (4)

Ship total: 64 Half Points: 32 Threshold: 5

Esege Tuketu (44)
Adv. Proton Torpedoes (5)
Barrage Rockets (8)
Perceptive Copilot (8)

Ship total: 65 Half Points: 33 Threshold: 5


Total: 198

View in Yet Another Squad Builder 2.0: https://raithos.github.io/?f=Rebel Alliance&d=v8ZsZ200Z17X134W238WW84WW70WWY27XW138W136W5W165WWY18X134W97WWW54WWW&sn=KYKv5&obs=

On 7/29/2020 at 6:43 AM, michigun1 said:

After points changes there is ver5 of my favorite rebel list so far

Actually, I have a problem how to spend 4 points. Now I'm thinking about Shield Upg for Dutch..but not sure it's the best option.

Proximity mine is also can be changed for something else.

Miranda Doni (40)
Adv. Proton Torpedoes (5)
Diamond-Boron Missiles (6)
Han Solo (12)
Proximity Mines (6)

Ship total: 69 Half Points: 35 Threshold: 5

"Dutch" Vander (40)
Ion Cannon Turret (5)
Proton Torpedoes (13)
R4 Astromech (2)
Shield Upgrade (4)

Ship total: 64 Half Points: 32 Threshold: 5

Esege Tuketu (44)
Adv. Proton Torpedoes (5)
Barrage Rockets (8)
Perceptive Copilot (8)

Ship total: 65 Half Points: 33 Threshold: 5


Total: 198

View in Yet Another Squad Builder 2.0: https://raithos.github.io/?f=Rebel Alliance&d=v8ZsZ200Z17X134W238WW84WW70WWY27XW138W136W5W165WWY18X134W97WWW54WWW&sn=KYKv5&obs=

Shield Upgrade is nice for a target that tends to be shot, be that Dutch or Miranda.

I would put bombs on Miranda instead of a mine, since she likes to speed away and cover her back with area control, and possibly reload the bomb when she doesn't have shots. Proton or Ion bombs are pretty tempting, and Seismics have their uses. I like to also always pair bombs with Delayed Fuses, in case that interest you. I should also note that Sabine is only 3 points and could be quite handy, especially if you trade that shield upgrade for a bomb on another ship like Esege or Dutch to give the team lots of coverage.

So here's a variation:

Miranda Doni (40)
Adv. Proton Torpedoes (5)
Diamond-Boron Missiles (6)
Han Solo (12)
Sabine Wren (3)
Proton Bombs (5)
Delayed Fuses (1)

Ship total: 72 Half Points: 36 Threshold: 5

"Dutch" Vander (40)
Ion Cannon Turret (5)
Proton Torpedoes (13)
R4 Astromech (2)
Seismic Charges (3)

Ship total: 63 Half Points: 32 Threshold: 4

Esege Tuketu (44)
Barrage Rockets (8)
Perceptive Copilot (8)
Proton Bombs (5)

Ship total: 65 Half Points: 33 Threshold: 5


Total: 200

View in Yet Another Squad Builder 2.0: https://raithos.github.io/?f=Rebel Alliance&d=v8ZsZ200Z17X134W238WW84W57W69WW236Y27XW138W136W5WW71WY18XW97WWW54WW69W&sn=KYKv5&obs=

Honestly Miranda and the K-Wings are looking really tempting: You can drop four proton bombs every turn of the entire game, add control effects, regen, and varying templates for bomb-dropping.

Miranda Doni (40)
Skilled Bombardier (2)
Sabine Wren (3)
Proton Bombs (5)
Advanced SLAM (3)

Warden Squadron Pilot (38)
Skilled Bombardier (2)
Jyn Erso (2)
Proton Bombs (5)
Advanced SLAM (3)

Warden Squadron Pilot (38)
Skilled Bombardier (2)
Proton Bombs (5)
Advanced SLAM (3)

Warden Squadron Pilot (38)
Skilled Bombardier (2)
Proton Bombs (5)
Advanced SLAM (3)

Total: 199

View in Yet Another Squad Builder 2.0: https://raithos.github.io/?f=Rebel Alliance&d=v8ZsZ200Z17XWWW88W57WW69W104Y20XWWW88W40W69WW104Y20XWWW88WW69WW104Y20XWWW88WW69WW104&sn=Unnamed Squadron&obs=