What about changing the way Alpha and Omega cards work?

By BlackThunder99, in KeyForge

What about making possible to use multiple alpha/omega cards in sequence at the start or the end of the turn?
Like if you have 2 First Blood in hand, you could use them at the start of the turn in sequence, instead of just using one and discarding the other...

Probably you will ask yourself : There would be some broken combos?

The only broken combo that would become more broken is one that already exists: Binate Rupture-Interdimensional Graft.

Other Alphas/Omegas combinations are kinda quiet

Alphas and Omegas are few so it doesn't take very long to see which cards combination can be broken.
Multiple binate rupture can be nasty but they're heavily situation dependant.
Other alphas and omegas would be quiet cards.

Age of ascension Alphas and Omegas are:
Brobnar:
-First Blood (Alpha)

-Gargantes Scraper (Alpha)

Dis:
-Unlocked Gateway (Omega)

Logos:
-Binate Rupture(Alpha)
-Eureka (Alpha)

Shadows:
-Sucker Punch (Alpha)
-Swindle (Alpha-Omega)
-Little NIff ( Omega)
-Heist Night (Alpha)

Untamed:
-Duskwitch (Omega)
-Lucilla (Alpha)
-Bumblebird (Alpha)
-Gravid Cycle (Omega)

What are the possible broken combos?
Brobnar: None.

The only "combo" on the first turn would be summoning Gargantes Scraper and then using First Blood, that would deal just 2 damage. So definitely not broken.


Dis:None (at least you will be able to use double unlocked gateway to unward opponent's creature and then destroy them, but that's not broken)

Logos:
A good combo would be eureka and then binate rupture (of course you have to be lucky and don't archive it) so you get a key with 2 cards, but that's situational because you have to be lucky and you wouldn't want to use binate rupture when your opponent has 3 or more ambers (and that's a common situation).
Double Binate Rupture and then Interdimensional graft is broken but even single binate rupture with interdimensional graft was broken,things gets a bit worse but just a bit.

Shadows:
A sucker punch and a swindle make you gain 4 amber and at best destroy a power 2 creature, but you still used 2 cards and your cards on the field can't be used.

Decks with more than 1 Swindle don't exist so multiple Swindles won't be a problem.


Heist Night + Swindle can be broken, but most of the time it won't because Heist Night is a bad card that's difficult to use.
Swindle+ Little Niff? good but not broken

Untamed:
A maybe broken combo would be summoning a Glimmer to bring back from the gy another Glimmer and then use Nature Call on one of them to recycle Nature calls and Glimmer, but that can happen with just one Glimmer and a Nature Call, so things don't change so much.

Glimmer+ Bumblebird: You summon Glimmer to bring back Bumblebird so now your Glimmer is a power 3 creature. So broken.

Gravid Cycle + Dusk Witch: it's just a regrowth,nothing broken.

I'm not considering Mavericks because they are very rare and even though the only broken combo would be Swindle+ Binate Rupture and i don't know if there are decks like this.

Overall i think there wouldn't be a deterioration of the game, but an improvement if there would be an Alpha-Omega rule change.

P.S. Also Garfield seems interested in a change to how Alphas and Omegas work!

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I feel this would complicate a game space that really doesn't benefit from being complicated.

Edited by blinkingline

The ******* defeats the entire purpose of having to play them first or last. It makes more sense to just not use Alpha or Omega as often anymore unless a design calls for it.

Edited by Hyperjayman

My one shard deck with 3 alpha cards in untamed would like this change, but I understand the rules headache of "if you take any action other than playing a card with alpha, you can no longer play alpha cards."

https://www.keyforgegame.com/deck-details/03622ed5-b8e4-43ea-813f-f02f002fa26e
(Though having a 5 pwr glimmer could be fun.)

I also see you didn't look at anything past age of ascension.

United Action (a play ANYTHING card) alone makes the break potential of this rule change insane. Just that + sow salt alone can lock your opponent up for a turn. If they were hypothetically allowed in any deck, United Action + Eureka + Glimmer would be an instant 6 aember + draw 6 at the end of your turn.

On 7/2/2020 at 2:28 PM, Simplegarak said:

My one shard deck with 3 alpha cards in untamed would like this change, but I understand the rules headache of "if you take any action other than playing a card with alpha, you can no longer play alpha cards."

https://www.keyforgegame.com/deck-details/03622ed5-b8e4-43ea-813f-f02f002fa26e
(Though having a 5 pwr glimmer could be fun.)

I also see you didn't look at anything past age of ascension.

United Action (a play ANYTHING card) alone makes the break potential of this rule change insane. Just that + sow salt alone can lock your opponent up for a turn. If they were hypothetically allowed in any deck, United Action + Eureka + Glimmer would be an instant 6 aember + draw 6 at the end of your turn.

your last combo would be broken but much rarer to find than an already broken combo like the genka one.

Broken Combos that don't lock you out the game are fine as they're rare and not common like LANS combo.

I don't see how you can lock out the opponent with united action + sow salt... You don't make the opponent reap but that can be done also with a single sow salt...

On 6/12/2020 at 5:21 AM, blinkingline said:

I feel this would complicate a game space that really doesn't benefit from being complicated.

it isn't complicated at all

After you play an Alpha you can play another Alpha, but if you play a card that isn't Alpha you can't play Alpha cards anymore for the rest of the turn.

3 hours ago, BlackThunder99 said:

it isn't complicated at all

After you play an Alpha you can play another Alpha, but if you play a card that isn't Alpha you can't play Alpha cards anymore for the rest of the turn.

By all means if you and your local play group want to play by this house rule, have at it. I wouldn't suspect the idea to get much traction with the game's development team, for the reason I stated earlier.

On 7/12/2020 at 8:57 AM, BlackThunder99 said:

I don't see how you can lock out the opponent with united action + sow salt... You don't make the opponent reap but that can be done also with a single sow salt...

United Action locks you out of using cards anyway. So "sow salt" with that card essentially means you extend your restriction to the opponent while still gaining the benefit of playing anything you want.

On 7/12/2020 at 8:58 AM, BlackThunder99 said:

it isn't complicated at all

After you play an Alpha you can play another Alpha, but if you play a card that isn't Alpha you can't play Alpha cards anymore for the rest of the turn.

You have to specify if actions in general apply or not. That's how the game works (you can't do ANYTHING before an Alpha). Under your change, you could like... reap with Witch of the Eye to get an alpha card and then play it. Or use a Library of Babble to draw an alpha card and play it.

Like @blinkingline said, if your group wants to try games with that house rule, I'm not gonna call the game cops on you or anything. ;)