Can someone confirm this is correct. There is a blue encounter l had in the first space at Yuggoth Other World and it says if you fail your Sneak (-1) which l did, you return immediately to Arkham. Do you return to the Gate and it is marked as explored. Also can l still try to close the Gate as l have already had a Other World encounter.

Stricktly from what you said that seems right. I don't have the encounter in frount of me so if you want to be sure it would be better to post exactly how its worded to be sure there are no strings attached though usually the card will say "return to Arkham but don't recieve an explore token"' if you don't get it.

It says "Pass a Sneak (-1) check or the creatures capture and experiment on you. Lose half your items, then immediately return to Arkham with no memory of the experiments."

l failed the Sneak check, l had 5 items so discarded 3 of them, then moved to the Gate. Can l still try to close the Gate this turn.

alboy said:

No. Closing rolls are made in the Arkham Encounters phase (Phase 3), since you returned via an OW encounter (Phase 4), no go this turn. You do get an explored token, key for that is "return to Arkham".

You should have discarded 2 items, not 3. The rulebook states that when you're unconscious/insane you need to discard half your items rounded down. There's no reason to believe that other instances would be rounded up unless stated otherwise. Your encounter is no exception.

kroen said:

It's more likely that he thought the rule was rounded up and not rounded down, rather than thinking this was a special exception.

money rounds up >_>

Joseph_Lavode said:

Does it now :

"Arrested investigators lose half of their money (round
down) and are delayed." (p. 16)

Maybe you were thinking of items list prices?

Dam(n) and blast, I certainly was!

Its an easy mistake to make, it's the only thing I know of that doesn't follow the golden rule of interpret in the way that would hurt the investigator most.

What about spells? I remember reading in a FAQ somewhere that spells should be counted as items, but I don't remember in which instance. Is it always so? For example, an investigator goes mad in Arkham with 2 common items, 1 unique and 3 spells. Do I pool all of these together to determine the number of items I lose (3 divided however I want between all items/spells) or do I have to count each category separately (discard 1 common item, 0 uniques and 1 spell)? So far I've always pooled them because that way you usually discard more stuff.

Spells always count as items, yes.

Tibs said:

Really? So they can be switched between investigators? Our group is currently working under the assumption that they only count as items for the purposes of calculating losses as such. Have we missed some relevant point in the rules.

Spells count as items in all possible ways, including being traded or when an encounter instructs you to "lose an item of your choice." Kevin Wilson once clarified that it doesn't make the most thematic sense, but in terms of game mechanics it "keeps things simple."

I have a house rule that makes a distinction between spells and non-spell items depending on if a character goes insane or unconscious, but other than that I don't recall any official distinction. Well, Spells have no printed cost so they can't be sold given the right encounter.

I think it makes perfect thematic sense. In Lovecraft spells aren't the memorize once cast over and over again once you know it that most RPGs have trained us to expect. They are lengthy arcane things often with physical components often difficult if not impossible to memorize. I've always seen the spell cards as being tomes or notebooks full of diagrams and notes on how to cast the spell which is why you could trade them.

Veet said:

I agree. And when you read an actual in game tome during movement, once you understand the spell it contains, then you're not so much discarding the tome and drawing a spell, as it is now understood to be a spell, so the actual item transitioned from being a unique tome item to being a spell since you're character now uinderstands that's what it was all along. And a tome that gives two spells or more, well perhaps you're ripping the pages out that make each spell which is how you can trade them individually.

I dont see spells from tomes being that the investigator understands them so much as knowing that they are there. The investigator would still be carrying the tome with the added knowledge that the jumbo jumbo on pg 42-47 is actually a spell (torn out and traded or not).

Since spells cost sanity each time they are used then I am under the impression that the investigators never get comfy with using them or used to them.

North_Wolf said:

I agree they don't understand the spell in itself, they just understand that the tome was a book which contained a spell. Which is why the player now has a spell card instead of a unique item card.

Though it doesn't make sense thematically why the Old Journal, or the King in Yellow Tome would be discarded and replaced with clue tokens. Systematically, it is so no one else can read it also and gain clues, but thematically, where does it go? Is the book so bad, they shred it in disgust? Do they gain the knowledge by eating it?

Well, there's a finite amount of useful information that you're going to get from someone's old diary. Maybe a successful lore check means that you've read and successfully interpreted the events that it recounts, and there's no extra benefit to be gained from rereading it, or giving it to someone else to learn the same. (Whether one reads the book and tosses it, or hangs on to it for reference, is an open question)

This is a little less plausible as an explanation of the KiY, mind you, and it does lead to bigger and trickier questions regarding the sort of information that clues represent, how they're physically embodied, and why the heck investigators can't share their notes (unless they're violinists)

Perhaps the information gleaned is only good in one particular instance. So Jenny getting 4 clues from KiY applies them to sealing a gate Monteray can't get them because we all already know that bit and used the info, it's no longer relevant info. Or perhaps it disturbs the people so much they toss it away or burn it out of fear.

I view clue tokens as representing information that the characters don't realize is relevent until used.

Say you read a dusty old journal and gain two clue tokens, the reason you can't share that with another character is that your character doesn't know what information in the journal is important. When the two clue tokens are spent to add to a combat check, it's an Aha!! moment where the character remembers a line from the dusty journal that helps against the Shaggoth.

alboy said:

then immediately return to Arkham with no memory of the experiments. <- This mean you dont get the explored token cause you dont remember being there. At least thats how i read it.

Innsmouth13 said:

Note it says no memory of the experiments. You still recall exploring of the OW. "Return to Arkham" is the key phrase, you get an explored token.