Double tap attacks

By jpersons73, in Star Wars: Armada Rules Questions

If I have a ship lined up for a double tab. Front attcack 2 red 1 blue. I roll 2 blancks 1 accuracy . Can I carry the accuracy over the next attack? If not what rule states that we cannot carry it over

13 minutes ago, jpersons73 said:

If I have a ship lined up for a double tab. Front attcack 2 red 1 blue. I roll 2 blancks 1 accuracy . Can I carry the accuracy over the next attack? If not what rule states that we cannot carry it over

You mean when performing two separate attacks?

No, you cannot.

Accuracies are spent in step 3 of the attack sequence. For each spent accuracy icon, you may "choose the same number of the defender’s defense tokens. The chosen tokens cannot be spent during this attack ."

This is sourced from the attack sequence in the RRG, as well as the definition of an accuracy icon under dice icons.

20 minutes ago, The Jabbawookie said:

You mean when performing two separate attacks?

No, you cannot.

Accuracies are spent in step 3 of the attack sequence. For each spent accuracy icon, you may "choose the same number of the defender’s defense tokens. The chosen tokens cannot be spent during this attack ."

This is sourced from the attack sequence in the RRG, as well as the definition of an accuracy icon under dice icons.

Thanks

The only way to "carry over" a die from one attack to the next is Gunnery Chief Varnillian.

latest?cb=20191125180056

For example, if you had GCV equipped to a ship that had a double arc, and the first attack was two blanks and one accuracy, you could exchange the die on the GCV card with the accuracy, then exchange the accuracy with a die in the attack pool of the second attack.

Edited by Bertie Wooster
7 hours ago, Bertie Wooster said:

The only way to "carry over" a die from one attack to the next is Gunnery Chief Varnillian.

latest?cb=20191125180056

For example, if you had GCV equipped to a ship that had a double arc, and the first attack was two blanks and one accuracy, you could exchange the die on the GCV card with the accuracy, then exchange the accuracy with a die in the attack pool of the second attack.

Thinking about this, let’s say you exchange that red die for a black die set to hit/crit during some attack. Later, for a long range attack, you exchange one of your red dice (let’s say a blank) for that black hit/crit. Is that now a black die in your attack pool such that if you use a concentrate fire to add a die, that would allow you to add another black die to your dice pool (at long range)?

15 minutes ago, Aahz 1 said:

Is that now a black die in your attack pool such that if you use a concentrate fire to add a die, that would allow you to add another black die to your dice pool (at long range)?

Yes.

So, from a Rules Perspective, this is an interesting one... Because it essentially comes up with No Written rule in support, but one heck of a Convention.

Because here's the Deal.

At no Point, are you told to *remove* the Dice from " The Attack Pool. " ... I'm putting that in Quotations and Italics specifically right there for a reason. Because the convention assumption we are breaking is that "Every attack has its own attack pool."

This is important.

Because if you ignore that convention, and say "I'm not removing any dice from The Attack Pool, because it never tells you to, So when I make my secondary attack, I'll keep those dice in there... That's cool and all.

But then its your Opponents Turn.

And you've already established that... There is only One Attack Pool.

Full of Dice from Your last Attack.

And THEY are now Attacking You back.

Which would escalate into ludicrous amounts of Dice very quickly .

So if you ever make the argument "You're Never told to Remove Dice from the Attack Pool when resolving Damage, so they stay in the Attack Pool Indefinitely...".... You're really stretching the bounds of RAW... because, Yes, Sure, Pure Undiluted Rule as Written , there isn't anything that tells you to do so after an attack... And its going to BACKFIRE HARD if someone plays by the same Tules.

THe closest you'll get, is that you return things to the Supply in the Cleanup part of the End Phase. But again, I'm unsure its specifically mentioned...

.. . ANd yes, I looked up not onyl the RRG, but the LTP guide to make sure that there wasn't anythign hidden there about it either.

37 minutes ago, Drasnighta said:

So, from a Rules Perspective, this is an interesting one... Because it essentially comes up with No Written rule in support, but one heck of a Convention.

Because here's the Deal.

At no Point, are you told to *remove* the Dice from " The Attack Pool. " ... I'm putting that in Quotations and Italics specifically right there for a reason. Because the convention assumption we are breaking is that "Every attack has its own attack pool."

This is important.

Because if you ignore that convention, and say "I'm not removing any dice from The Attack Pool, because it never tells you to, So when I make my secondary attack, I'll keep those dice in there... That's cool and all.

But then its your Opponents Turn.

And you've already established that... There is only One Attack Pool.

Full of Dice from Your last Attack.

And THEY are now Attacking You back.

Which would escalate into ludicrous amounts of Dice very quickly .

So if you ever make the argument "You're Never told to Remove Dice from the Attack Pool when resolving Damage, so they stay in the Attack Pool Indefinitely...".... You're really stretching the bounds of RAW... because, Yes, Sure, Pure Undiluted Rule as Written , there isn't anything that tells you to do so after an attack... And its going to BACKFIRE HARD if someone plays by the same Tules.

THe closest you'll get, is that you return things to the Supply in the Cleanup part of the End Phase. But again, I'm unsure its specifically mentioned...

.. . ANd yes, I looked up not onyl the RRG, but the LTP guide to make sure that there wasn't anythign hidden there about it either.

Well, we do have the definition of the attack pool in the RRG. "During an attack, the attack pool is comprised of all dice being used for that attack."

The ramifications of that definition change from attack to attack. You don't need to explicitly remove dice, you're just redefining a value.

You could argue ambiguity stems from the word "comprised," which could mean "includes." But either way, when making an attack you've just completely redefined the value of the attack pool, and there's nothing saying you get to include anything beyond what you have been told to include.

Between attacks, maybe you could make an argument the attack pool consists of every die gathered over the course of a game. Only because that's not "during the attack."

Edited by The Jabbawookie
24 minutes ago, The Jabbawookie said:

Well, we do have the definition of the attack pool in the RRG. "During an attack, the attack pool is comprised of all dice being used for that attack."

The ramifications of that definition change from attack to attack. You don't need to explicitly remove dice, you're just redefining a value.

The Ambiguity effectively comes from the fact that the rules specify how to *add* dice into the Pool, but never that they are actually *removed*.

So indeed, The fice being used "for this attack" could well comprise a base of the dice that were used in the previous one - We never got rid of them anyway - and then added in the dice we have now ... because the attack pool

Its Ludicrous, its Game Breaking. Its laughable. But its apparently an interpretation .

FFG Policy forbids me from stating what I would say to anyone I caught trying to pull this off at one of my Events.

That tells you its worse than Defenestration, at least.

I am so very confused by all of this.

Per RRG "Modifying Dice"
"Spend: When a die or die icon is spent, remove that die from the attack pool."

I'm not sure where this whole, a dice is kept in the pool is coming from?

Edit: OH I get what your saying now. You're talking about the "attack pool" itself.
Your right, you're never told when to remove the "dice" from the "attack pool" when the "attack" has concluded. That is interesting, but as mentioned. One that would never hold up, as eventually, we'd run out of dice haha.

Edited by Karneck
17 minutes ago, Karneck said:

I am so very confused by all of this.

Per RRG "Modifying Dice"
"Spend: When a die or die icon is spent, remove that die from the attack pool."

I'm not sure where this whole, a dice is kept in the pool is coming from?

Edit: OH I get what your saying now. You're attacking about the "attack pool" itself.
Your right, you're never told when to remove the "dice" from the "attack pool" when the "attack" has concluded. That is interesting, but as mentioned. One that would never hold up, as eventually, we'd run out of dice haha.

And then that one guy shows up at your LGS with a toolbox for his ships and a toolbox with nothing but dice...

12 minutes ago, Bertie Wooster said:

And then that one guy shows up at your LGS with a toolbox for his ships and a toolbox with nothing but dice...

C’mon, that would be just crazy...

*quietly checks eBay and SW Swap & Sell for cheap dice*

15 hours ago, Admiral Calkins said:

C’mon, that would be just crazy...

*quietly checks eBay and SW Swap & Sell for cheap dice*

That's no toolbox. It's a battlestation.

On 5/16/2020 at 10:23 PM, Drasnighta said:

So, from a Rules Perspective, this is an interesting one... Because it essentially comes up with No Written rule in support, but one heck of a Convention.

Because here's the Deal.

At no Point, are you told to *remove* the Dice from " The Attack Pool. " ... I'm putting that in Quotations and Italics specifically right there for a reason. Because the convention assumption we are breaking is that "Every attack has its own attack pool."

This is important.

Because if you ignore that convention, and say "I'm not removing any dice from The Attack Pool, because it never tells you to, So when I make my secondary attack, I'll keep those dice in there... That's cool and all.

But then its your Opponents Turn.

And you've already established that... There is only One Attack Pool.

Full of Dice from Your last Attack.

And THEY are now Attacking You back.

Which would escalate into ludicrous amounts of Dice very quickly .

So if you ever make the argument "You're Never told to Remove Dice from the Attack Pool when resolving Damage, so they stay in the Attack Pool Indefinitely...".... You're really stretching the bounds of RAW... because, Yes, Sure, Pure Undiluted Rule as Written , there isn't anything that tells you to do so after an attack... And its going to BACKFIRE HARD if someone plays by the same Tules.

THe closest you'll get, is that you return things to the Supply in the Cleanup part of the End Phase. But again, I'm unsure its specifically mentioned...

.. . ANd yes, I looked up not onyl the RRG, but the LTP guide to make sure that there wasn't anythign hidden there about it either.

Neither is said about removing pools from game to game, lol

New meta: ten Torpedo Hammerheads, Shriv, and Rieekan.

Just chop off Gunnery Team and trade shots until you win.

5 hours ago, ovinomanc3r said:

Neither is said about removing pools from game to game, lol

Round 1 of a game 6 tournament, oh lawd its comin.

1 hour ago, Karneck said:

Round 1 of a game 6 tournament, oh lawd its comin.

HondoClysm has some deep bids for 1st.

I guess this thread demonstrates how starved for news and new stuff our community is :-p.

9 hours ago, RapidReload said:

I guess this thread demonstrates how starved for news and new stuff our community is :-p.

I was Drunk, I have no idea what anyone elses' excuse is.