I've got a fun casual...ish list I'm considering taking to Campaign Against Cancer, and I'm wondering how it can be improved.

Despite having RAC and Vynder-Vader, I get the impression it sits well below the uh... standards of a respectable, upstanding meta fleet. Because I insist on having Kestal in it. Kestal was in fact the nucleus of the fleet on creation, and giving her an entertaining (though not serious/tournament-worthy) home was a core goal. Giving everyone Ruthless and naming it "Ruth Stayed Home" sealed its fate. I consider those two features somewhat core to the fleet's silly identity; others are negotiable.

But even given those silly constraints, there's probably wiser ways to spend the points I have than some of the choices I've made. Suggestions?

I'm also open to moving away from RAC and Vynder-Vader if that creates something more fun to play and/or less meta-like (where I'm basically flying a meta fleet, but with added Kestal, which might feel cheap on casual nights and weak in tournaments; best to pick a side, and I'd choose fun).

Lieutenant Kestal (31)
Ruthless (1)
Ion Cannon Turret (5)
Barrage Rockets (8)
Ship total: 45 Half Points: 23 Threshold: 3

Major Vermeil (49)
Ruthless (1)
Darth Vader (14)
Hull Upgrade (3)
Ship total: 67 Half Points: 34 Threshold: 5

Rear Admiral Chiraneau (76)
Ruthless (1)
Minister Tua (7)
Dauntless (4)
Ship total: 88 Half Points: 44 Threshold: 8

Total: 200

View in Yet Another Squad Builder 2.0: https://raithos.github.io/?f=Galactic Empire&d=v8ZsZ200Z187X128W138W97WWWY183X128W26WW164Y214X128WW49WWWWWW147&sn=Ruth Stayed Home2&obs=

Hey @Wazat ! I still remember playing against another of your iterations of this like a year ago with my totally not meta Vader/3Force RAC list.

I love me some Vader/Vermeil. I generally run Vermeil with just Vader but it makes sense with a hull upgrade given the Ruthless everywhere.

One thing I'm seeing from the get go on RAC is Dauntless and Tua seem to be working against each other a bit. You won't be able to use Tua if you Dauntless and if you proritize Tua to get double actions in a turn then Dauntless is just kind of sitting there. I personally love Dauntless for bumping and denying a shot on RAC but still getting him his Reinforce. I would drop Tua and put on Kallus and a hull upgrade. This will give you another focus mod to hit and another hull thus increasing the half points threshold and adding a bit more survivability to RAC.

I also like messing around with Intimidate Oicunn but that wouldn't work with your Ruthless on everyone theme here.

Lieutenant Kestal (31)
Ruthless (1)
Ion Cannon Turret (5)
Barrage Rockets (8)

Ship total: 45 Half Points: 23 Threshold: 3

Major Vermeil (49)
Ruthless (1)
Darth Vader (14)

Ship total: 64 Half Points: 32 Threshold: 4

Rear Admiral Chiraneau (76)
Ruthless (1)
Grand Inquisitor (13)

Ship total: 90 Half Points: 45 Threshold: 8


Total: 199

View in Yet Another Squad Builder 2.0: https://raithos.github.io/?f=Galactic%20Empire&d=v8ZsZ200Z187X128W138WW97WWY183X128WW26WY214X128WW33WWWWWW&sn=Unnamed%20Squadron&obs=

Grand Inq grants 2 actions per turn to RAC, or one if he bumps, most of the time (range limit), or a Force if you can't trigger him. Better than Tua or Dauntless most of the time. Sadly slightly more expensive though.

Vader might be better on RAC because of the double arc coverage, and if you have Dauntless you can go in for the block, still get your own actions, and damage the tokenless ships that crash into you. Then you can also get death troopers on RAC or Vermeil with points for a hull or shield upgrade.

If barrage rockets isnt required reading for your constraints give Duchess Afterburners. Or go all in and remove the Ion Turret and give Whisper Burners as well and use Kestal as the Ruthless offering to double down on the meme.

Deathfire is my favorite Ruthless target though.

Its all do what you want man territory of course. As a general rule RAC is better off being 2 i5+ ships instead of 1 etc.

On 5/15/2020 at 7:08 PM, Skitch_ said:

One thing I'm seeing from the get go on RAC is Dauntless and Tua seem to be working against each other a bit.

Yea, I've noticed this in my games. I kinda had Dauntless for before Tua is available to give myself some redundancy, but it's a lot of points to devote to that.

Tua is also a problem because by the time I can use her, the enemy is focused on burning RAC down as fast as possible, so she typically doesn't get use for long. Instead RAC needs agency in his action usage. Coordination from Vermeil is a better method since Vermeil often likes the stress to control his ailerons.

12 hours ago, Gilarius said:

Grand Inq grants 2 actions per turn to RAC, or one if he bumps, most of the time (range limit), or a Force if you can't trigger him. Better than Tua or Dauntless most of the time. Sadly slightly more expensive though.

Hmm... I like this idea. Lock + Reinforce as long as enemy aces are starting their turn close, or the odd double action when I'm not stressed and I dial in a blue.

It's tempting to drop Barrage Rockets to add Death Troopers to RAC so he becomes a radius threat. Maybe also BT-1 to exploit the stress if enemies decide to risk it, or just a shield upgrade.

11 hours ago, Des Darklighter said:

Vader might be better on RAC because of the double arc coverage, and if you have Dauntless you can go in for the block, still get your own actions, and damage the tokenless ships that crash into you. Then you can also get death troopers on RAC or Vermeil with points for a hull or shield upgrade.

That's an interesting direction, a more classic RAC. Not only does he threaten with Vader on a double arc, but it can be rotated to the sides while strafing the target. It's always been brutal when I've been its user or target.

I might mix it up giving RAC Grand Inquisitor and Death Troopers, keeping Vader on Vermeil as a separate threat. Something like this:

Lieutenant Kestal (31)
Ruthless (1)
Ion Cannon Turret (5)
Ship total: 37 Half Points: 19 Threshold: 3

Major Vermeil (49)
Ruthless (1)
Darth Vader (14)
Ship total: 64 Half Points: 32 Threshold: 4

Rear Admiral Chiraneau (76)
Ruthless (1)
Grand Inquisitor (13)
Death Troopers (6)
Shield Upgrade (3)

Ship total: 99 Half Points: 50 Threshold: 9

Total: 200

View in Yet Another Squad Builder 2.0: https://raithos.github.io/?f=Galactic Empire&d=v8ZsZ200Z187X128W138WWWWY183X128W26WWY214X128WW33W27WWWW165W&sn=Ruth Stayed Home2&obs=

11 hours ago, Boom Owl said:

(TIE Salad)

If barrage rockets isnt required reading for your constraints give Duchess Afterburners. Or go all in and remove the Ion Turret and give Whisper Burners as well and use Kestal as the Ruthless offering to double down on the meme.

Deathfire is my favorite Ruthless target though.

Its all do what you want man territory of course. As a general rule RAC is better off being 2 i5+ ships instead of 1 etc.

The Salad version is a big departure from the original list so I had to think about it a bit, but I think I like it. I also like the idea of swapping in Deathfire (perhaps with proximity mines), that's really funny to me. My first inclination is to replace Soontir since I'm pretty bad at flying him, which gives me just enough points to eek out a Black Squadron Ace TIE/ln with Ruthless, though there's not much synergy there. Probably a better way to do that. Or I could swap out Duchess, the cheapest piece besides Kestal. Kestal is definitely the weakest link, the limp body the rest are dragging along. 🙂

One core idea of the original list was lots of accuracy: Ruthless, Vermeil & RAC's abilities, force, coordinated actions, etc ideally helps me keep up on the damage curve. Even Kestal occasionally manages to contribute. 😄 And for a 37- or 45-point ship she's not a bad ion and/or barrage rockets carrier. She's just not great, so she does very little against the meta. But she does help while the rest of the team is pushing out the major damage and usually tanking pretty well. I'm excited to try out some variations.

Thank you everyone for your great suggestions!

Why not put Double-Edge instead of Kestal (giving him the option of playing the blocker) and add some nastiness to RAC and Vermeil ?

Rear Admiral Chiraneau (76)
Ruthless (1)
Death Troopers (6)
Grand Inquisitor (13)

Ship total: 96 Half Points: 48 Threshold: 8

"Double Edge" (29)
Ruthless (1)
Ion Cannon Turret (5)

Ship total: 35 Half Points: 18 Threshold: 3

Major Vermeil (49)
Ruthless (1)
Darth Vader (14)
0-0-0 (5)

Ship total: 69 Half Points: 35 Threshold: 4


Total: 200

46 minutes ago, Silver_leader said:

Why not put Double-Edge instead of Kestal (giving him the option of playing the blocker) and add some nastiness to RAC and Vermeil ?

Kestal is the silly meme of the fleet (in addition to ruthlessness).

I let my buddy fly the fleet below against me. He's very new but he did quite well with it, high-speed charging Oicunn in front of my team when he saw the opportunity to create a traffic accident. He was quick to realize the power of Oicunn's loadout...

Those Death Troopers were a serious problem; it was hard to get past Oicunn's large base. I spent a couple rounds unable to clear stress because of that dilemma. And one ship was getting ionized by Kestal and thus forcibly rammed into Oicunn, so it just couldn't escape and couldn't even clear stress on the ion maneuver. This created a lot of opportunity for him to mess me up while he battered me with well-modded attacks. He played well and I'm delighted to see the fleet excel!

I still haven't pitted it against anything in the meta, mainly because I haven't gotten a lot of games in the past month (it's harder to be excited to play against random people online; friends are better).

Lieutenant Kestal (31)
Ruthless (1)
Ion Cannon Turret (5)
Ship total: 37 Half Points: 19 Threshold: 3

Major Vermeil (49)
Ruthless (1)
Darth Vader (14)
Ship total: 64 Half Points: 32 Threshold: 4

Captain Oicunn (74)
Ruthless (1)
Death Troopers (6)
Grand Inquisitor (13)
Dauntless (4)
Ship total: 98 Half Points: 49 Threshold: 8

Total: 199

View in Yet Another Squad Builder 2.0: https://raithos.github.io/?f=Galactic Empire&d=v8ZsZ200Z187X128W138WWWWY183X128W26WWY215X128WW27WW33WWWW147&sn=Ruth Stayed Home3&obs=