So, my group is a little uncertain regarding the timing of "after questing successfully."

Namely, do you trigger "After Questing Successfully" responses (Hirgon, Expert Treasure Hunter, etc.) before or after you place progress from questing successfully.


Let's say I'm on Stage 2B of a quest that has Long Defeat attached
There is an Ancient Mathoms attached to the active location, which has a Forced: When Explored effect that requires the player to discard cards at random from their hand
I quest with Hirgon , who has Expert Treasure Hunter attached
I quest successfully with enough progress to defeat Stage 2B and move to 3B


What is the exact order of how these things all transpire?

Do I have to resolve "After Questing Successfully" responses before any progress from questing is placed? That is:
(1) Trigger Hirgon's Response and/or Expert Treasure Hunter Response in any order (if desired)
(2) Place Progress onto Active Location, exploring it and then...
2a) resolving the Forced When Explored Effect
2b) resolving the Ancient Mathoms response (if desired)
??? I assume the Forced of a location trumps the response of player card triggering off of exploration?
(3) Place Progress onto Quest 2B
.... ????
... then to do you...
defeat 2B and resolve Long Defeat first, or go to Quest 3A and resolve all of its instructions prior to resolving Long Defeat?




Or, do you place progress tokens first, clearing the active location, flipping the Quest stages, and then triggering any desired "After Questing Successfully" effects?



Basically, when progress placement is involved we're less confident in timing windows, especially when it results in going to a new Quest Stage with its own complicated set of instructions.

I think it goes like this:

1. Trigger Hirgon and/or Expert Treasure Hunter
2. Place progress on the location up to its quest points
3. Discard location and Mathom
4. Place progress on the quest.
5. Discard quest and Long Defeat
6. Place new quest
7. Resolve "When revealed" of new quest
8. Flip new quest
9. Resolve "When revealed" of new quest
10. Resolve Forced effect of location
11. Resolve Ancient Mathom

Don't know whether Long Defeat gets resolved after 5 or after 9.

Edit: got Mathom and Treasure Hunter mixed up

I think it's been ruled that 10 goes between 3 and 4 because even though things happen simultaneously Caleb said it leads to less intuitive results.

Likewise, I would assume ancient mathom would trigger at that point too.

It would make sense that the long defeat would trigger upon clearing the quest and before revealing the next one.

You're determined to have quested successfully the moment that you calculate that your committed willpower is greater than threat. This naturally comes before the actual placement of progress, so you resolve triggers like Hirgon's first.

10 hours ago, EBerling said:

Namely, do you trigger "After Questing Successfully" responses (Hirgon, Expert Treasure Hunter, etc.) before or after you place progress from questing successfully.

FAQ 1.24 states:

Quote

Questing successfully and the physical placement of progress tokens are two separate game occurrences that happen in sequence during the Quest Resolution step. As soon as the players determine that the total committed Willpower is greater than the total Threat in the staging area, they are considered to have quested successfully. Any Forced or passive effects initiated by questing successfully resolve before physically placing progress tokens.

How progress placement itself works can be complicated—e.g., this ruling —but that FAQ directly addresses the simple part of your question, which is that all those difficulties occur after Hirgon and the like.

Ok, looks like they changed the rules since last time I learned them.

23 hours ago, sappidus said:

FAQ 1.24 states:

How progress placement itself works can be complicated—e.g., this ruling —but that FAQ directly addresses the simple part of your question, which is that all those difficulties occur after Hirgon and the like.

I assume that at the point players realize they've quested successfully, the number of progress tokens that will be placed is then fixed? That is to say, if forced/response effects to questing successfully change the total WP committed to the quest (e.g. sending Red Arrow to the Victory Display for it's Valour Response (-1 WP) or killing a staged enemy via Hirgon dropping a Galadhon Archer (-X Threat)), you still place a # of progress tokens determined at the point the quest was successful?




So, would this be a fair order of operations:

(1) The Quest is successful, and the # of Progress tokens that will be placed is set to X
(2) Responses to Questing Successfully (e.g. Hirgon, Red Arrow, Expert Treasure Hunter, etc.) may be resolved in any order the players desire.
(3) Progress is placed onto the active location
3a) any forced effects from placing progress / exploring the location are resolved
3b) any responses from placing progress / exploring a location are resolved (e.g. Idraen, Ancient Mathom, etc.)
(4) Any and all remaining progress is placed on the active Quest card
4a) any forced effects for placing progress / completing the quest are resolved
4b) any responses for placing progress / complete the quest are resolved (e.g. The Long Defeat, Gather Information)
(5) If applicable, the next stage of the quest is revealed, resolved, and then flipped to it's B side.



If this is accurate, it definitely helps clean up a lot of things I was doing slightly incorrectly (e.g. using Hirgon to drop a Descendant of Thorondor to hurt an enemy that was just added to the staging area by going to a new stage of the quest OR fishinig a card from a completed Gather Information before then drawing cards with Expert Treasure Hunter).

I think you have it right according to that ruling, except that I think that the progress tokens go on the quest before resolving the effects of exploring the active location. Or something similar but mechanically the same. They key point is that if the consequences of clearing the active location themselves cause you to progress the quest, you don't place any progress on the new quest. For example, if Annoying Location is the active location, and Quest 2b says "Forced: When Annoying Location is explored, advance to stage 3A", once you do this, the progress that you were going to place on Stage 2b doesn't end up on Stage 3b.