I decided to jump into the Wayback Machine, and bumped into this thread:

I kinda found 2 things interesting.

1. Even in 2012 folks were already tired of "Just Asteroids" as a game style, which bizarrely still remains an issue.

2. These ideas, which I'll repost here:

Quote

Red dust clouds: These dust clouds disrupt ship targeting computers, creating a wildly distorted image for the pilot. Pilots affected by the red dust clouds are unable to obtain target locks and fire with one less attack die.

Green dust clouds: These temporarily shut down more advanced navigational systems, resulting in difficulty pulling off complex evasive maneuvers. Pilots affected roll one less defense die.

Blue dust clouds: These dust clouds affect shields. They could:
(a) Generate up to 1 unit of shielding per game on a ship that passes through the cloud
(b) Removes 1 unit of shielding on a ship that passes through the cloud

Purple dust clouds: These are nearly impenetrable both to the naked eye and sensors. Ships within dust clouds cannot be fired upon but cannot fire out either.

Ion storms: These replicate the effect of an ion cannon.

Whaaa???

Deplete and Strain have been around for 8 years, unofficially!!

So this brings me to BLUE DUST CLOUDS. I started to toy with the idea of representing that concept at a Red Token.

Introducing: Flux Tokens!!

It's a red, round token (yeah, pretend the whole thing is red}. For each Flux Token a ship has assigned, it cannot inactivate a shield to prevent damage.

And yes, that missile is from here:

I mean, MOAR TOKENS, but I like the ideas.

Missile is a bit 1.0 brutal. Perhaps just a condition that applies the effect for the rest of that round. Would still make focussed fire overwhelming for anything shield heavy.

That's a genuinely potentially balanced idea IMO, which doesn't show up often around these parts. It makes alpha strikes a bit scarier, but it at least gives missile ships a purpose in that type of list. I like it, and it definitely warrants playtesting. Just make sure to say uncancelled hits/crits instead of hits/crits, and maybe make it like ion where every hit past the first is a token.

Quick notes:

Red tokens explicitly stay after the end of the round, but round tokens are removed. If you want it to removed during the end phase (weaker, but still strong and more interesting IMO) it needs to be orange and stay round. If you want it to stick around, it needs to be Diamond, stay red and get a timing for removal (unless you just have no timing for removal, but then it just gets way too strong IMO)

Additionally, how specifically does it prevent damage from being canceled by shields? For example, lets say I have a ship with 5 shields that gets assigned 2 flux tokens and takes an attack dealing 3 damage. Do I suffer 3 damage to shields and 0 to hull (2 flux tokens preventing me from using two of my shields) or 2 damage to hull and 1 to shields (2 flux tokens preventing me from using shields on two damage)?

Not so quick after all I guess. It's a neat idea though, and I'm interested to see how you can expand on it.

1 hour ago, Cuz05 said:

Missile is a bit 1.0 brutal.

Yeah, that certainly could be scaled back. It was just the first delivery system that seemed to make sense, and I modeled it on ion token delivery. Certainly it could also be a pilot ability (or, more likely, a droid ability} or a cannon.

Quote

I mean, MOAR TOKENS,

Perhaps just a condition

I hate conditions more than tokens in terms of bookkeeping, personally.

1 hour ago, Do I need a Username said:

Red tokens explicitly stay after the end of the round, but round tokens are removed. If you want it to removed during the end phase (weaker, but still strong and more interesting IMO) it needs to be orange and stay round. If you want it to stick around, it needs to be Diamond, stay red and get a timing for removal (unless you just have no timing for removal, but then it just gets way too strong IMO)

Yeah, the orange and round was the intention. I thought that only shape defined stickiness.

Which is great, actually, because the token can then just look like an orange shield, ergo, no confusion with an actual shield token.

Quote

Additionally, how specifically does it prevent damage from being canceled by shields? For example, lets say I have a ship with 5 shields that gets assigned 2 flux tokens and takes an attack dealing 3 damage. Do I suffer 3 damage to shields and 0 to hull (2 flux tokens preventing me from using two of my shields) or 2 damage to hull and 1 to shields (2 flux tokens preventing me from using shields on two damage)?

Now that shields are blue (active} and red (inactive}, a Flux Token makes a Blue Shield function as a Red Shield while a Flux Token is assigned to a ship.

So, in your example, you suffer 3 shield damage and none to Hull.

But, for example, if you have 3 Shields, 2 Flux, and suffer 3 damage, the ship takes 1 Shield and 2 Hull damage because 2 Shield tokens have "winked off" for the turn. However, next turn, you still have those 2 Shield Tokens that are now "out of flux/winked back on."

Aside from “yet another token” I like the idea. It’s sort of like a regen effect but caused by the adversary effect wearing off instead of actually undoing enemy damage.

It also allows you to bypass the shields like how Kylo’s Crits could (well still can except nobody uses that condition now that it burns force )

13 hours ago, Darth Meanie said:

Now that shields are blue (active} and red (inactive}, a Flux Token makes a Blue Shield function as a Red Shield while a Flux Token is assigned to a ship.

So, in your example, you suffer 3 shield damage and none to Hull.

But, for example, if you have 3 Shields, 2 Flux, and suffer 3 damage, the ship takes 1 Shield and 2 Hull damage because 2 Shield tokens have "winked off" for the turn. However, next turn, you still have those 2 Shield Tokens that are now "out of flux/winked back on."

Alright, that makes sense - some more questions:

Do flux tokens only apply while the ship is defending? And how do they interact with abilities that reference being shielded?

For example, while Miranda performs an attack, is she has 2 shields active and 2 flux tokens, can she spend a shield to roll an additional die? Or if she can't, can she roll one less die to recover that last shield? If a ship with the Optimized Prototype condition is attacking a ship that has the same number of flux tokens as shields can it spend a die to cause the defender to lose a shield?

13 hours ago, Darth Meanie said:

Yeah, that certainly could be scaled back. It was just the first delivery system that seemed to make sense, and I modeled it on ion token delivery. Certainly it could also be a pilot ability (or, more likely, a droid ability} or a cannon.

I hate conditions more than tokens in terms of bookkeeping, personally.

Yeah, the orange and round was the intention. I thought that only shape defined stickiness.

Which is great, actually, because the token can then just look like an orange shield, ergo, no confusion with an actual shield token.

Now that shields are blue (active} and red (inactive}, a Flux Token makes a Blue Shield function as a Red Shield while a Flux Token is assigned to a ship.

So, in your example, you suffer 3 shield damage and none to Hull.

But, for example, if you have 3 Shields, 2 Flux, and suffer 3 damage, the ship takes 1 Shield and 2 Hull damage because 2 Shield tokens have "winked off" for the turn. However, next turn, you still have those 2 Shield Tokens that are now "out of flux/winked back on."

Hrm.

If I'm reading this correct, Flux tokens apply to every incoming attack? An X-Wing with 2 Flux is a TIE Striker, etc etc. Then whenever the tokens go away (if orange, end of the round), you get back those 2 shields...

Hrm. Isn't that just sort of "worse damage" that goes away? I guess it'd all come down to the delivery system, and you could potentially have a cheaper "flux cannon" than regular cannon, since it doesn't do anything permanent on it's own. However, since it works on every attack, it probably has to be priced close to actual damage.

//

On the other hand, it could work more like strain. Make it a red token, and make each flux get spent when the ship suffers damage that won't be prevented by the shields. Again, X-Wing with 2 Flux. Hit/Crit comes in as the attack roll, X-Wing rolls 1 Evade. The Evade cancels the hit, the crit would get caught by Flux, but instead it goes through. X-Wing takes 1 crit, and loses 1 flux. If the crit was a Direct Hit, since the X-Wing had 1 Flux, it'd also go under-shields.

//

I could see this red "single-use" Flux perhaps be easier to accomplish or inflict on a ship, since it doesn't necessarily do more damage and just "improves" the damage, but the orange "every attack" Flux is probably closer in value to doing real damage.

Suppose a missile with 3-dice, range 2-3, inflicts 1 flux if it hits, then you get the damage as normal. I'd expect about 6 points for Red Flux, priced around Concussion Missile (3 normal damage with a slight perk). But for Orange flux, I'd expect something closer to 9-10 points, like Plasma Torpedoes, since it'd be a lot closer to a 4-dice attack.

I really like this idea. I look forward to seeing how this idea progresses!

1 hour ago, theBitterFig said:

Hrm.

If I'm reading this correct, Flux tokens apply to every incoming attack? An X-Wing with 2 Flux is a TIE Striker, etc etc. Then whenever the tokens go away (if orange, end of the round), you get back those 2 shields...

Hrm. Isn't that just sort of "worse damage" that goes away? I guess it'd all come down to the delivery system, and you could potentially have a cheaper "flux cannon" than regular cannon, since it doesn't do anything permanent on it's own. However, since it works on every attack, it probably has to be priced close to actual damage.

//

On the other hand, it could work more like strain. Make it a red token, and make each flux get spent when the ship suffers damage that won't be prevented by the shields. Again, X-Wing with 2 Flux. Hit/Crit comes in as the attack roll, X-Wing rolls 1 Evade. The Evade cancels the hit, the crit would get caught by Flux, but instead it goes through. X-Wing takes 1 crit, and loses 1 flux. If the crit was a Direct Hit, since the X-Wing had 1 Flux, it'd also go under-shields.

//

I could see this red "single-use" Flux perhaps be easier to accomplish or inflict on a ship, since it doesn't necessarily do more damage and just "improves" the damage, but the orange "every attack" Flux is probably closer in value to doing real damage.

Suppose a missile with 3-dice, range 2-3, inflicts 1 flux if it hits, then you get the damage as normal. I'd expect about 6 points for Red Flux, priced around Concussion Missile (3 normal damage with a slight perk). But for Orange flux, I'd expect something closer to 9-10 points, like Plasma Torpedoes, since it'd be a lot closer to a 4-dice attack.

Your first statement was the intention.

And you are right, on the turn inflicted, Flux is "real damage" that passively regenerates next turn.

Without having playtested any of this, all I can say is that "single use flux" feels weird. I would also say that single use flux is probably actually more chit management than "if you have an Orange Shield, you can't use a Blue Shield."

Personally, I would be more inclined to fix the missile and change the price than change the mechanic. This might be better:

1 hour ago, Do I need a Username said:

Alright, that makes sense - some more questions:

Do flux tokens only apply while the ship is defending? And how do they interact with abilities that reference being shielded?

For example, while Miranda performs an attack, is she has 2 shields active and 2 flux tokens, can she spend a shield to roll an additional die? Or if she can't, can she roll one less die to recover that last shield? If a ship with the Optimized Prototype condition is attacking a ship that has the same number of flux tokens as shields can it spend a die to cause the defender to lose a shield?

For simplicity, a "Fluxed Shield" is a "Red Shield." It's not there to affect; you are unshielded, etc.

So for Miranda, she can't spend a Fluxed Shield (it isn't there this turn}. If all of her shields are Fluxed and/or damaged, she is Unshielded.

As for recovering a shield. . .I would let that ability also cancel a Flux token. It would be consistent with bringing your shields back on line. And if Miranda had 1 Fluxed and 1 Damaged shield, it would be player choice. So the better idea would be to repair a damaged (red} shield, and let the fluxed shield repair itself next turn.

And for the Optimized Prototype, a "fully fluxed" ship could not be made to lose a shield that turn; there are no shields to lose in that moment.

Interesting idea for sure. But as most ideas affecting just shields, it suffers like these from the silver bullet problem. Separatists do not care about it if their opponent has it, Empire and Scum also suffer very little, while it is devastating for rebels.

1 hour ago, Managarmr said:

Interesting idea for sure. But as most ideas affecting just shields, it suffers like these from the silver bullet problem. Separatists do not care about it if their opponent has it, Empire and Scum also suffer very little, while it is devastating for rebels.

Valid. And yet, there are Plasma Torpedoes. . . +1 free damage to Rebels.

11 hours ago, Darth Meanie said:

For simplicity, a "Fluxed Shield" is a "Red Shield." It's not there to affect; you are unshielded, etc.

So for Miranda, she can't spend a Fluxed Shield (it isn't there this turn}. If all of her shields are Fluxed and/or damaged, she is Unshielded.

As for recovering a shield. . .I would let that ability also cancel a Flux token. It would be consistent with bringing your shields back on line. And if Miranda had 1 Fluxed and 1 Damaged shield, it would be player choice. So the better idea would be to repair a damaged (red} shield, and let the fluxed shield repair itself next turn.

And for the Optimized Prototype, a "fully fluxed" ship could not be made to lose a shield that turn; there are no shields to lose in that moment.

Alright! This makes things easy for how you want flux to be worded rules-wise:

Flux tokens: When a ship receives any number of flux tokens, it loses an equal number of shields. When a flux token is removed that ship recovers one shield. A ship cannot receive a greater number of flux tokens than it has shields.

This means both players have to be really on top of managing flux tokens, but it also make most interactions with them easy. It's also quite late here though, so I may have missed something. I'll try and re-read it later and double check my wording.

Otherwise, I look forward to hearing about playtesting and how that goes for you / if there are any changes you plan to make.

9 hours ago, Darth Meanie said:

Valid. And yet, there are Plasma Torpedoes. . . +1 free damage to Rebels.

That is correct. And I had hoped FFG would not re-release them. (And no, I am not a Rebel main).

20 hours ago, Darth Meanie said:

Personally, I would be more inclined to fix the missile and change the price than change the mechanic. This might be better:

This is better than the first iteration (which had the potential to do an insane amount of damage to a shielded ship), but it's still waaaaay too cheap.

The key thing to bear in mind with this is that, for the round you assign the tokens, you've effectively done that amount of damage. Doesn't matter if they get it back next round if they're already dead. And as the only way for this to be better than just doing the damage anyway is for all hit results to inflict damage or tokens instead of just the uncancelled ones, you've got to be really careful with it.

This effect is on the border of invalidating defence dice results, which is not a good thing.

If I were to propose a card that simply said "if this attack hits, all hit results inflict damage" it would probably be seen as very unfair. Assuming a decent level of mods, it basically means you're getting unfairly punished for simply having a lower number of defence dice. If this attack rolled 3 hits, and I'm in my U-Wing and roll 2 evade results, that's the absolute best I can do. But I'd still take all three hits and my defence dice didn't matter. All that mattered was that you had a higher number of dice to roll.

Your missile idea is pretty scarily close to that outcome for certain ships. It's moderated by the fact it only affects the type of HP that goes first anyway, and the fact you need someone else to finish it off. But it does mean that 2 agility shielded ships are in a particular vulnerable spot.

You compared it with plasma torpedoes, and I agree that they are fairly similar. I feel that Plasma Torps work just differently enough that they are more fair, though. Against a one agility ship, the Intruder Missiles work effectively as well as Plasma Torps in most cases, and slightly worse in some. For example, against Braylen if I roll 3 hits and he rolls 1 evade, then IMs will do 1 real damage and 2 temporary damage against shields (the attack hits, Braylen's evade is basically ignored) - Braylen will have 1 shield left to use while defending the rest of the round. If I use Plasmas and the rolls are the same, then Plasmas will do 1 bonus damage to the shields, two additional hits will go through and one hit is cancelled by Braylen's evade - Braylen will have 1 shield left to use while defending the rest of the round. Same result. If Braylen blanks on defence, however, then Plasmas do 4 points of real shield damage while IMs still only does 1 real and 2 temporary.

So against 1 agility ships, they're basically the same with IMs coming out a bit worse because they have a lower damage ceiling and their damage is only temporary. That's an argument for IMs being cheaper.

However, against 2 agility ships, we've already seen how effective IMs can get. A Plasma Torp against Dash rolling 3 hits to Dash's two evades will do 1 bonus damage to shields and 1 normal damage, also off shields. IMs, however, will do the equivalent of 3 damage.

This is what makes IM 'feel' worse. Against plasma torps, my defence dice results still worked to mitigate the damage I was taking. Against IMs, they did nothing. This makes Plasma Torps a pseudo 4 dice attack. My defence dice couldn't protect me from the extra shield damage, but they couldn't have protected me from a hit rolled on the extra die in a ProTorp attack anyway, and on the other hand I'm able to limit the amount of damage a Plasma Torp roll can do if I roll well on defence. 4 dice attacks exist in the game. Plasma Torps are sometimes a Proton Torp, sometimes not. They're costed appropriately to the role (not quite as expensive as ProTorps, but still expensive).

In that situation, IM has done the equivalent of roll 5 hits against my 2 evade results. There's only one native 5 dice attack in the game and that's Proton Rockets, which are limited to bullseye only, range 1-2 only and still cost 7 points.

Plasma Torps also have the additional benefit that against any other ship, they're just a three dice attack. On any ship with a 2 dice primary and the slot, that still keeps them useful. You probably don't get all 8 points worth of benefit from them, but being able to upgrade your range 2 and 3 shots to 3 dice that don't give the extra defence die is probably worth about 5 of those 8 points. The point being you didn't waste all 8 points taking them on your Y-Wing against a TIE swarm, you only wasted 3. And 3 as insurance against Rexler Brath or Braylen Stramm isn't a bad trade off. Yet people still don't take Plasma Torps. This isn't true of IMs, which are basically a waste of points against lists they don't affect. So how do you cost them? Cost them cheaply enough that you don't care if they're wasted against a TIE swarm and they become easy to include - you're not going to risk high agility, high shield ships like Defenders or Virago because it's very likely your opponent is bringing their kryptonite. That's not a good space to be in. On the other hand, if you cost them high to reflect their potency against these ships then no one will take them because it's too many points to throw away against the wrong list. Again, much like Plasmas. But unlike Plasmas, I don't think there's an easy to balance those two aspects.

I think there's a lot of overlap between your IM design, Plasma Torpedoes and Proton Rockets. I think in terms of effectiveness vs ease of use they occupy similar niches and have similar 'best outcomes'. But IMs are easily the most situational.

I would suggest that makes them at least 6 points. Probably 7. And potentially up to 8 given just how effective they can be against 80 point monsters like Rexler/Virago+SU Guri.

If 8 points feels too steep, then I'd suggest further rebalancing. Restrict the range band, reduce the number of charges, don't give it the little missile icon that means it ignores the range 3 defence bonus etc.

To swing this all the way back around to the beginning, however. I do actually like the concept of the flux tokens themselves. I'm just not convinced having them weaponised is my preferred use. Honestly, the original idea of suffering a maximum of one for overlapping a certain obstacle feels more natural to me. This puts it back in the control of the player who receives the token. It's a punishment for bad maneuver judgement, or a calculated trade off for gaining a certain position on the board. But it's not all that game changing. It's not hugely different from a strain token.

Of course, unfortunately it becomes a freebie obstacle for TIE swarms. It would be a no brainer. Even if every ship suffered some consequence for overlapping, you're still going to take it in the hopes of getting an advantage over shielded ships.

For that reason, I think it would work best outside the current ruleset for obstacles. It shouldn't be something that players choose to bring and place in the limited obstacle count of the standard rules. It should be an additional obstacle placed according to some scenario rules outside of direct player influence, and their should be a matching obstacle that punishes unshielded ships in an equally temporary way (the first hit taken that round is a crit?).

Sorry that was so much text. I think this is a really interesting mechanic with a lot of scope for discussion around it

7 hours ago, GuacCousteau said:

This is what makes IM 'feel' worse. Against plasma torps, my defence dice results still worked to mitigate the damage I was taking. Against IMs, they did nothing. This makes Plasma Torps a pseudo 4 dice attack. My defence dice couldn't protect me from the extra shield damage, but they couldn't have protected me from a hit rolled on the extra die in a ProTorp attack anyway, and on the other hand I'm able to limit the amount of damage a Plasma Torp roll can do if I roll well on defence. 4 dice attacks exist in the game. Plasma Torps are sometimes a Proton Torp, sometimes not. They're costed appropriately to the role (not quite as expensive as ProTorps, but still expensive).

Right, I now see all that. I guess to make them work more as intended, I just need to say:

I my head, they original idea was that they were a weaker missile, not a stronger one. That is to say, an enabler of follow-up attacks, rather than a potent attack in-and-of themselves.

And I did realize they were too cheap, but forgot to change the cost.

18 hours ago, Darth Meanie said:

Right, I now see all that. I guess to make them work more as intended, I just need to say:

I my head, they original idea was that they were a weaker missile, not a stronger one. That is to say, an enabler of follow-up attacks, rather than a potent attack in-and-of themselves.

And I did realize they were too cheap, but forgot to change the cost.

So 2 charges for (functionally) a worse 3 die attack should probably be significantly cheaper as concussion missiles gives 3 3 die attacks for 6 points.

3 hours ago, Do I need a Username said:

So 2 charges for (functionally) a worse 3 die attack should probably be significantly cheaper as concussion missiles gives 3 3 die attacks for 6 points.

It's not functionally worse though. Against a target with at least 3 shields, it's functionally better.

For one, there range restriction on this is bigger. CMs can't fire at range 1, this can.

Secondly, the thing that makes this (situationally) better than CMs is that as long as the attack hits, it ignores the results of the defence dice. As I went into far too much detail on a post or two above, if you roll 3 hits with this thing vs 2 evade results, you're doing 1 permanent damage and 2 temporary damage. The same results on the dice if the attack is a concussion missile only gets you 1 damage.

Whether or not that specific situation (3 hits vs two evades on a ship with >=3 shields) makes the whole upgrade better than CMs is a difficult question, which is why I used so many words discussing it.

I think ultimately this would need to be balanced on play testing but my take is that - much like Proton Rockets only being good if you have a focus, (arguably) a lock, the defender in bullseye etc. - you kinda have to cost upgrades on their performance peak, rather than performance average. Cost these theoretical IMs any fewer than 6 points and you run the risk of them being easy to include just in case you run up against something like a TIE Defender, and then make them extremely good value for points if you do.

21 minutes ago, GuacCousteau said:

it ignores the results of the defence dice.

Not in the current iteration of @Darth Meanie 's idea.

(it's in the post you quoted but I'll paste it here for convivence. Capalla Pastada!!!)

5 hours ago, Do I need a Username said:

So 2 charges for (functionally) a worse 3 die attack should probably be significantly cheaper as concussion missiles gives 3 3 die attacks for 6 points.

So what you're saying is now that the mechanics matches my concept, the original price was right? 😎

2 hours ago, Darth Meanie said:

So what you're saying is now that the mechanics matches my concept, the original price was right? 😎

Closer than the new one I think, based entirely off of what exists in the game now. Still worth testing of course.

13 hours ago, Hiemfire said:

Not in the current iteration of @Darth Meanie 's idea.

(it's in the post you quoted but I'll paste it here for convivence. Capalla Pastada!!!)

Oh good shout, I hadn't spotted that. I assumed it was just the same card with a points at change.

@Darth Meanie honestly I think that change makes this upgrade completely pointless. If only uncancelled hit results inflict these tokens, then those dice results would have done the same amount of normal damage on a different attack. And normal damage is better because it sticks. And applies against ships with no shields. Even if you costed this version at 2 points and it became a dirt cheap means of giving 2 dice primaries a 3 dice attack, most wouldn't take it. It's still strictly worse than their range 1 primary at this point, and there are better options for bumping up attack in the missile slot.

@Do I need a Username is right, at this point I'd sooner take a Concussion Missile. And Concussion Missiles are bad. Beyond that, on most 2 dice primary ships I think given the option between a 3 dice attack that only really damages shields and doesn't stick till next round and only 2 dice that do straight damage, I actually think I'd take the two dice.

This is what I meant when I said this is a really hard effect to weaponise, and why I think the original intention of it being inflicted by an obstacle makes more sense. Any weapon upgrade has to be trading the effect against damage, and when that effect is just a worse form of damage that trade doesn't exist.

If you're going to focus on getting these tokens inflicted by an attack, then I think you need to make sure it's doing something a regular attack can't do. Either that's a 'damage' spike so long as it hits, as in the original version (again, hard to balance and can feel a bit NPE) or something like splash damage. If these missiles handed out flux tokens to every ship in range 0-2 or something, then they're doing something a regular attack. The problem there, of course, is that spreading these tokens around doesn't help all that much, because ideally you want your other ships to focus fire.

The other option is to make it a weapon that happens outside engagement. What about a payload upgrade that has two charges and reads something like "Action: spend 1 charge to assign 1 flux token to each ship at range 0-2".

Basically, the ship detonates a 'flux charge" on the ship itself. No dropping, because it works more like Deadman's Switch. This also gives it a preferred carrier. You affect yourself, but if you're unshielded, you don't care. And then, you still get your attack later in the round so you haven't wasted any positive dice results you get.

I've had a bit of a think about this and I have a new idea. 3 dice, if it hits, it does 1 damage and cancels all results. Then, roll 3 dice: for each hit result, assign 1 flux token, for each crit result inflict 2. I guess Han can modify these? Not sure if that would work if he fires or if he is hit by them; think it's the former. Either way, it gives out a lot of temporary damage as long as it's not dodged entirely, mitigating the issue of "uncanceled results" being a bit meh against higher agility. If you want, you could even switch the order so that the damage comes after the flux, potentially putting damage on hull from the start. Not sure on price.

When you said, "Way back", you weren't kidding.

Waaaay back.

Look at those dinosaurs.

That's where most of us met the TIE/d.

And I really like the 'ol colored clouds whose effects correspond to Att/Agi/Shields.

I'm down.