12 minutes ago, LTD said:

Radical idea: don’t use command dials. Just have a slip of paper for each ship and a pencil.

In my meta, I’d try to use Slicer Tools and my opponent will likely eat the slip of paper to keep me from seeing their command.

17 minutes ago, LTD said:

Radical idea: don’t use command dials. Just have a slip of paper for each ship and a pencil.

Mother earth thanks you.

And just like that, we all realized FFG has been doing this nonsense with dice packs the entire time anyway.

You only really need 12 dials to play a 400 point game.

If you need more because you want to play 800 or run 5 VSD-1s, congratulations. You can afford 800 points of stuff and have bought 5 VSDs.

Assuming they treat dial packs like dice and maneuver tool expansions, I don't love the decision but am perfectly willing to accept it as yet another example of how this is already a privileged person's hobby.*

*And assuming they include a reasonable amount of dials.

I feel it's a little bit early to get all worked up over this debate when for a we know, they could just be "premium" dials with fancier and/or coloured shells and plastic components instead of cardboard.

19 hours ago, Atromix said:

I feel it's a little bit early to get all worked up over this debate when for a we know, they could just be "premium" dials with fancier and/or coloured shells and plastic components instead of cardboard.

I'd be happy to re-focus the thread's discussion to another topic, such as...

What ships will (or should be) be included in the Republic Fleet Expansion and Separatist Fleet Expansion?

As I've previously mentioned, my predictions are:

Republic Fleet Expansion:

• 1 x Acclamator assault ship (medium-size base)
• 2 x Charger C70 corvette [Clone Wars combat refit of the Consular-class Cruiser from TPM] (small-size base)

Separatist Fleet Expansion:

• 2 x Munificent star frigates (medium-size base)

To the best of my knowledge, the CIS didn't have a small combat ship that would be equivalent to a C70 corvette, which is why I predict the CIS fleet expansion will have two medium-size Munificents instead of one Munificent and two small ships. However, if any one knows of a Separatist small combat ship from the EU, I'd like to know about it.

18 minutes ago, Reavern said:

I'd be happy to re-focus the thread's discussion to another topic,

Not trying to start an argument (so please don’t prep the dueling monkeys gif), but I think he was basically saying that we are getting worked up over speculations on top of speculations. Refocusing the thread with the same process isn’t going to change that (speculating about what’s in the fleet expansions after speculating what the fleet expansions are).

Again you're trying to stifle harmless speculation. What is your problem ? Do you understand the fundamental purpose of a forum?

In the Legion section, there's an active thread about the rumour that Anakin Skywalker and Darth Maul will be the next Legion Commanders/Operatives, which is 5 pages and counting. No one there is being a buzz kill by discouraging discussion about that rumour.

So why don't you exercise some humility and self-control by staying out of this Clone Wars discussion, which you obviously have no interest in constructively participating in.

20 minutes ago, Reavern said:

Again you're trying to stifle harmless speculation. What is your problem ? Do you understand the fundamental purpose of a forum?

So why don't you exercise some humility and self-control by staying out of this Clone Wars discussion, which you obviously have no interest in constructively participating in.

He isn't trying to stifle anything. He is simply commenting that, in all this speculation, one mustn't lose sight of the fact that we could all be completely off the mark, and so not to be too invested in our ideas.

Note that he specifically quoted only a part of your post, and it WASN'T the speculation bit. He was indicating that what is needed wasn't a refocus to a new area of speculation, but a less invested attitude toward it. If you simply refocused to the Fleet Expansions, and an argument ensued in which people chose hills to die on, then you have only succeeded in changing the focus of the argument, amd have failed the primary goal of avoiding one in the first place.

Bother, I think I just turned the irony dial too far and it snapped clean off. I thought it'd go all the way up to 11.

16 minutes ago, flatpackhamster said:

Bother, I think I just turned the irony dial too far and it snapped clean off. I thought it'd go all the way up to 11.

For $2000 I'll build you one that goes to 12.

2 hours ago, GhostofNobodyInParticular said:

He isn't trying to stifle anything. He is simply commenting that, in all this speculation, one mustn't lose sight of the fact that we could all be completely off the mark, and so not to be too invested in our ideas.

Note that he specifically quoted only a part of your post, and it WASN'T the speculation bit. He was indicating that what is needed wasn't a refocus to a new area of speculation, but a less invested attitude toward it. If you simply refocused to the Fleet Expansions, and an argument ensued in which people chose hills to die on, then you have only succeeded in changing the focus of the argument, amd have failed the primary goal of avoiding one in the first place.

Why would it matter if our speculation is correct or not? 🤨 We're not making bets on Clone Wars Armada, are we?

Are certain people's ego's so inflated that they cannot bear the thought of being wrong, so they're too terrified to say anything? That's really sad .

I often use the information available to speculate and make reasoned arguments about my ideas and opinions. I can do this for anything -- even things I don't believe in or care about. It's called rhetoric. It's what debate teams and law students do all the time.

I'm not personally invested in the outcome of a discussion, I simply enjoy the intellectual discourse. That's the point of a forum: Posting ideas, discussing topics, and getting feedback. It would be a tragedy if this forum was an echo chamber with a flock of sheep who repeated the same thoughts and opinions, and did nothing but agree with each other all the time. That's asinine and boring! That's cancer to a forum.

TBH I've often wondered why there aren't tons of threads in the Star Wars Armada forum about Clone Wars ships and what their stats could be. This apparent aversion to and suppression of speculation explains a lot . 🙄

6 minutes ago, Reavern said:

Why would it matter if our speculation is correct or not? 🤨 We're not making bets on Clone Wars Armada, are we?

Are certain people's ego's so inflated that they cannot bear the thought of being wrong, so they're too terrified to say anything? That's really sad .

I often use the information available to speculate and make reasoned arguments about my ideas and opinions. I can do this for anything -- even things I don't believe in or care about. It's called rhetoric. It's what debate teams and law students do all the time.

I'm not personally invested in the outcome of a discussion, I simply enjoy the intellectual discourse. That's the point of a forum: Posting ideas, discussing topics, and getting feedback. It would be a tragedy if this forum was an echo chamber with a flock of sheep who repeated the same thoughts and opinions, and did nothing but agree with each other all the time. That's asinine and boring! That's cancer to a forum.

TBH I've often wondered why there aren't tons of threads in the Star Wars Armada forum about Clone Wars ships and what their stats could be. This apparent aversion to and suppression of speculation explains a lot . 🙄

You are twisting our words. There is nothing wrong with speculation, and there is nothing wrong with being mistaken. All that was said is be careful not to be too invested. Not just for those whose egos are hurt when they are wrong, but also for those who are so convinced that something they don't like is going to happen that they get all worked up and worried about it.

Nothing was said about needing to agree, which is what you imply by reference to a flock of sheep. And if you can discuss it without being invested great, good for you, clearly the comment wasn't directed at you.

All that was said was be free to speculate, but please remember not to take everything as set in stone, so keep your reaction to it light. It wasn't even a command or suggestion, just an observation that that might be happening to some.

Why do you take this so personally?

8 minutes ago, GhostofNobodyInParticular said:

You are twisting our words. There is nothing wrong with speculation, and there is nothing wrong with being mistaken. All that was said is be careful not to be too invested. Not just for those whose egos are hurt when they are wrong, but also for those who are so convinced that something they don't like is going to happen that they get all worked up and worried about it.

Nothing was said about needing to agree, which is what you imply by reference to a flock of sheep. And if you can discuss it without being invested great, good for you, clearly the comment wasn't directed at you.

All that was said was be free to speculate, but please remember not to take everything as set in stone, so keep your reaction to it light. It wasn't even a command or suggestion, just an observation that that might be happening to some.

Why do you take this so personally?

It's not personal. That's my point. Just because I respond to something and challenge it doesn't mean that I take it personally. If someone throws down the gauntlet, I won't hesitate to pick it up. That's simply not being a push-over.

IMO people are entirely too concerned about being "nice" and "civil". Civil discussions are boring and cause threads to die premature deaths. Whereas if a discussion gets contentious, that's when it gets fun . 😁

For example, I posted my predictions about what Clone Wars ships will be in Republic and Separatist Fleet Expansions. There's nothing I want more than for 100+ people to post their predictions here and make well-reasoned cases why the Lucrehulk battleship or Subjugator heavy cruiser or Sabaoth destroyer should be the first CIS ship released for CWA.

4 minutes ago, Reavern said:

IMO people are entirely too concerned about being "nice" and "civil". Civil discussions are boring and cause threads to die premature deaths. Whereas if a discussion gets contentious, that's when it gets fun . 😁

I believe I've stated before (and, seriously, with all due respect) that maybe Armada is not your game then, as the Armada community is extremely inclusive, nice, and civil, being one of the best gaming communities that I have ever been a part of.

In an effort to show exactly how great a community we are, here are two threads discussing Venators and their statistics (one is an older thread, but it checks out). Feel free to necro one of these to facilitate the Clone Wars stats discussion that you want to have. I know there are more out there as well, particularly for squadrons.

3 minutes ago, Admiral Calkins said:

I believe I've stated before (and, seriously, with all due respect) that maybe Armada is not your game then, as the Armada community is extremely inclusive, nice, and civil, being one of the best gaming communities that I have ever been a part of.

It's so ironic that "inclusive" is the first attribute of the Armada community that you listed, while in the same sentence telling me that "Armada is not your game then". 🙄 I find your cognitive dissonance as hilarious as it is appalling.

Firstly, the problem isn't with Armada, the game. I love playing Armada, and playing against my friends and randoms at my LGS. If there's a problem, it's with some of the people on this forum . You in particular, apparently.

Second, if the Armada community is as inclusive, nice, and civil as you claim, then why do you repeatedly try to derail and suppress threads that I participate in?

Either you don't share the values of the Armada community, or you're wrong about the Armada community on this forum.

Third, if that was your passive aggressive (cowardly) way of trying to tell me "We don't want you here. Please leave." My polite, respectful answer is: No, I'm not going anywhere. 😎

In conclusion, you can either drop this pointless off-topic discussion and let this thread get back on track, or you can keep pretending that you're not the problem here.

1 minute ago, Reavern said:

It's so ironic that "inclusive" is the first attribute of the Armada community that you listed, while in the same sentence telling me that "Armada is not your game then". 🙄 I find your cognitive dissonance as hilarious as it is appalling.

Firstly, the problem isn't with Armada, the game. I love playing Armada, and playing against my friends and randoms at my LGS. If there's a problem, it's with some of the people on this forum . You in particular, apparently.

Second, if the Armada community is as inclusive, nice, and civil as you claim, then why do you repeatedly try to derail and suppress threads that I participate in?

Either you don't share the values of the Armada community, or you're wrong about the Armada community on this forum.

Third, if that was your passive aggressive (cowardly) way of trying to tell me "We don't want you here. Please leave." My polite, respectful answer is: No, I'm not going anywhere. 😎

In conclusion, you can either drop this pointless off-topic discussion and let this thread get back on track, or you can keep pretending that you're not the problem here.

Again, you are picking and choosing what you want to hear and completely disregarding the second half of my post. To show that the Armada community is inclusive, I specifically directed you towards threads that you mentioned that you wished we had. I seriously don't know what you want other than to argue.

1 minute ago, Admiral Calkins said:

Again, you are picking and choosing what you want to hear and completely disregarding the second half of my post. To show that the Armada community is inclusive, I specifically directed you towards threads that you mentioned that you wished we had. I seriously don't know what you want other than to argue.

Firstly, once again I must point out your ironic lack of self-awareness for writing "you are picking and choosing what you want to hear and completely disregarding" my entire post.

Stop saying things that are completely contradictory. It is completely disingenuous to allege that the Armada community is "inclusive" while telling me that this isn't the place for me. It's baffling that you can't understand the inherent hypocrisy of your statements.

Second, people pick and choose the parts of other people's comments to reply to all of the time . Are you really unfamiliar with that? Seriously , it's like you've never participated in a forum before.

I often make multiple points in my comments, and frequently people will reply to and dissect one of my points, and choose to ignore everything else I wrote. I don't take that personally and whine "What about the other things I wrote." 😭 I'll just respond to the things they referred to specifically.

That's how it's done on a forum. No one is under any obligation to reply to anything, and especially not everything , that another person posts.

If someone posted 5 predictions about Clone Wars Wave 1 ships and squadrons, and one was an impassioned and persuasive case for the Lucrehulk, I think that most people, including me, would only reply to the Lucrehulk idea. That's not being impolite; that's focusing your reply on what you're actually interested in discussing. Everyone does that.

Get over yourself. 🙄

6 hours ago, Reavern said:

I'd be happy to re-focus the thread's discussion to another topic, such as...

What ships will (or should be) be included in the Republic Fleet Expansion and Separatist Fleet Expansion?

As I've previously mentioned, my predictions are:

Republic Fleet Expansion:

• 1 x Acclamator assault ship (medium-size base)
• 2 x Charger C70 corvette [Clone Wars combat refit of the Consular-class Cruiser from TPM] (small-size base)

Separatist Fleet Expansion:

• 2 x Munificent star frigates (medium-size base)

To the best of my knowledge, the CIS didn't have a small combat ship that would be equivalent to a C70 corvette, which is why I predict the CIS fleet expansion will have two medium-size Munificents instead of one Munificent and two small ships. However, if any one knows of a Separatist small combat ship from the EU, I'd like to know about it.

The Diamond class Frigate is approx 200m (which is probably close enough to be comparable to the GAR Charger C-70, Rebel CR90, and Imperial Raider), and made an on-screen appearance (in the far background of the ground battle of Geonosis) in Attack of the Clones. But that is about the only small ship of theirs I can think of.

https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Diamond-class_cruiser

8 hours ago, Reavern said:

Again you're trying to stifle harmless speculation. What is your problem ? Do you understand the fundamental purpose of a forum?

In the Legion section, there's an active thread about the rumour that Anakin Skywalker and Darth Maul will be the next Legion Commanders/Operatives, which is 5 pages and counting. No one there is being a buzz kill by discouraging discussion about that rumour.

So why don't you exercise some humility and self-control by staying out of this Clone Wars discussion, which you obviously have no interest in constructively participating in.

I legitimately thought this was sarcasm, and pretty good sarcasm at that.

Than came the bit about humility and self-control, and I thought this was truly great sarcasm.

And now I have scrolled further down and am sadmused.

For small ships, I think the CIS had the Hardcell-class and the C-9979, though I'm not sure how combat capable they were. We may even get another Raider situation where FFG gets permission to design their own small corvette, as the CIS will likely be getting an Epic ship for X-Wing at some point and they don't have many fitting candidates, much like the Empire pre-Raider.

An entire page wasted for troll feeding. 😉

Speculation is half the fun right now. Most of the time you are wrong, but it's still fun! If you are really lucky, you are so accurate that when you're prediction comes true while you're on vacation, half the community is tagging you in posts! That is priceless.

SWM20 is and always was the SSD!

I actually really liked @Reavern 's prediction for the fleet packs, except that I also expect V19 and Vulture squadrons, and possibly an old style Gozanti flotilla. 6 squadrons, 2 med and a flotilla for the CIS, 4 squadrons, 2 small and a med for the GAR.

It provides the same number of ships per side, but in a way that highlights the differences of the 2 faction's.

Unfortunately, I don't see that as being able to fill a 400 pt list, right out of the box. That doesn't discount the idea in my mind, but would suggest that the fleet packs are geared towards a 300 pt build. Not a bad idea, to boost sales, but also a cheap way of doing it. Either way, FFG has always put out quality products, so I can say with confidence that I'll pre-order at least 2 of each fleet pack. Beyond that... Depends what is inside.

FFG loves their symmetry in faction packs and a few cores thus far. I doubt they'll change now. If you get a Medium and one or two smalls in one box, you'd expect to get the same spread in the other. Plus a few squads I'd suspect. Real kick in the teeth would be if it's a 1med/1small/Xsquads spread and you get locked out of an MSU style by virtue of not really needing to buy more than a third pack with out seriously diminishing returns for the most common by far customers. Then again, with only one wave to the new factions, maybe MSU won't be viable enough for that to matter for them yet.

18 hours ago, Cap116 said:

The Diamond class Frigate is approx 200m (which is probably close enough to be comparable to the GAR Charger C-70, Rebel CR90, and Imperial Raider), and made an on-screen appearance (in the far background of the ground battle of Geonosis) in Attack of the Clones. But that is about the only small ship of theirs I can think of.

https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Diamond-class_cruiser

Awesome! I never heard of the Diamond-class cruiser before. I'm pleasantly surprised!

So the Separatists could have a small ship in CW Armada.

Assuming that FFG is aware of the Diamond-class cruiser, I have my doubts they will include it in Wave 1, just because it's so obscure.

However, the Assault Frigate Mark II was released in Armada Wave 1, and only gamers who played the SW: Empire at War RTS game were familiar with that ship. Presumably the reason why the AFM2 was included in Wave 1 because the Rebels needed a medium ship to oppose the Victory SD. For Clone Wars, the Separatists will probably need a small ship to oppose the C70 corvette. So I suppose it's possible the Diamond-class cruiser could be in the Separatist Fleet Expansion.

(This is exactly why I was encouraging speculation about the Clone Wars ships. I learned something that I didn't know -- and probably a lot of other people did too -- and I'm grateful.)

14 hours ago, Atromix said:

For small ships, I think the CIS had the Hardcell-class and the C-9979, though I'm not sure how combat capable they were. We may even get another Raider situation where FFG gets permission to design their own small corvette, as the CIS will likely be getting an Epic ship for X-Wing at some point and they don't have many fitting candidates, much like the Empire pre-Raider.

My prediction is that the C-9979 will be the Separatist flotilla , because it's a transport with minimal weapons, similar to the GR-75. I know that the CIS used the Gozanti as a transport, but since that's the Empire's flotilla, I think FFG will give the CIS their own distinct flotilla, and will choose the C-9979, which is instantly recognizable as the Trade Federation transport ship.

The Hardcell is a possibility as a CIS small ship, but according to canon source materials, it's another transport with minimal weapons, and it's slow at only 40 MGLT, compared to a CR90's 81 MGLT. So if FFG faithfully depicted the Hardcell in CW Armada, it wouldn't match up against the Republic C70 corvette.

I agree (and hope) that FFG could work with Disney-Star Wars on developing a new Separatist small ship in order to fill that role in the CIS Navy. It'll be interesting to see what they come up with.

21 minutes ago, Reavern said:

Awesome! I never heard of the Diamond-class cruiser before. I'm pleasantly surprised!

So the Separatists could have a small ship in CW Armada.

Assuming that FFG is aware of the Diamond-class cruiser, I have my doubts they will include it in Wave 1, just because it's so obscure.

Additional canon small-based CIS ships:

Trident-class Assault Ship (TCW) https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Trident-class_assault_ship

Hardcell-class Transport (AoTC) https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Hardcell-class_interstellar_transport

C-9979 Landing Craft (TPM, TCW, RoTS) https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/C-9979_landing_craft

Gozanti-class Cruiser (TCW) https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Gozanti-class_cruiser

I suspect the C-9979 would be big enough to warrant its own base, but the Trident is on the line for a flotilla at 90ish meters.

Edit: ninja'd!

3 hours ago, The Jabbawookie said:

Trident-class Assault Ship (TCW) https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Trident-class_assault_ship

I'm aware of the Trident-class assault ship, but I don't think it should be the counterpart to the Republic C70 corvette, or a flotilla.

To my knowledge, the Trident has never been depicted on-screen as a space combat vessel. We've seen it depicted as a submersible assault craft on Kamino and Mon Calamari, and briefly as a landed transport that Assaj Ventress used to escape. But not in space.

Also, I think that producing a small plastic miniature of the Trident would be a nightmare. Even if it could be produced, the legs would break off so easily, it would be 10 times worse than the VSD's antennae.

As for the C-9979, it's true that its large enough to qualify as a small ship in Armada, but I think its role, as depicted in canon, is more important that its size. FFG could take liberties with the C-9979 (like they did with the CR90's size compared to the ISD) and shrink it so that two minis fit on a flotilla peg and small ship base.

I've mentioned previously that I believe FFG will need to release flotillas for the Clone Wars factions in Wave 1 so the Empire and Rebel factions don't have an unfair advantage. Therefore, I wouldn't be surprised if a flotilla is included in each Fleet Expansion . So instead of 1 medium ship and 2 small ships, as I previously predicted, perhaps the Fleet Expansion could have 1 medium ship, 1 small ship, and 1 flotilla.

That would still align with my prediction that the Fleet Expansions will contain approx. 200 points worth of ships and upgrade cards; and that we'll need to buy 2 fleet expansions to fill a 400-point build.