Thread vibe:

1 minute ago, Darth Sanguis said:

Thread vibe:

Should I be concerned that I keep seeing this gif on threads that I actively participate in?

10 hours ago, cynanbloodbane said:

Well, I suppose, if you're not serious about Armada, that would be your attitude. 😉

Actually I am I run events as the stores here wont. Money can be tight at times because things like life get in the way. The reason for asking is if we know how much the pre ordered items are itmight give some idea to how much these items have in them.

Crabbok posted this video today speculating about the Dial Pack:

Crabbok's 3rd theory is the same as mine from earlier in this thread: FFG might be omitting Command Dials from Armada expansions starting with Clone Wars Wave 1, and the Dial Pack is intended for new players to buy to get the dozen or so Command Dials they need for a 400-point build.

It would be great if we got some info from FFG about Clone Wars Armada...

I’ve just assumed it was a fancy dial pack. Crabbok’s theory hadn’t occurred to me

I'd love that idea of excluding dials from the Boxen as they just take up space, but wonder why they don't do that with bases as well in that's the case.

Maybe just see how it's working out...

16 hours ago, drumtier said:

I'd love that idea of excluding dials from the Boxen as they just take up space, but wonder why they don't do that with bases as well in that's the case.

Maybe just see how it's working out...

They likely wouldn't do it for the bases as there are some out there who collect the models as display pieces. Others who prefer to have the models permanent paired to the base and waiting on the shelf for use. The dials therefore make sense to cut out while the base wouldn't.

When needed, I have a while Crown Royal bag full of the things.

Omitting dials just doesn't make sense for me. They don't take up that much space tbh and it would seem frivolous to do.

20 minutes ago, ForceSensitive said:

They likely wouldn't do it for the bases as there are some out there who collect the models as display pieces. Others who prefer to have the models permanent paired to the base and waiting on the shelf for use. The dials therefore make sense to cut out while the base wouldn't.

When needed, I have a while Crown Royal bag full of the things.

But they could buy as much bases as needed, no big deal...

10 minutes ago, TallGiraffe said:

Omitting dials just doesn't make sense for me. They don't take up that much space tbh and it would seem frivolous to do.

The amount of wasted space in Armada boxes is a separate issue, which should be addressed, but I want to stay on-topic.

I don't believe the issue is the space occupied by the Command Dials, rather their manufacturing cost and the weight they add to each box. I imagine that the plastic dials only cost a few pennies each to manufacture and weigh a few grams each, but when FFG is manufacturing thousands or tens of thousands of expansion packs, and each requires 1-4 dials, those pennies and grams add up.

A good example of this is a story about how 30 years ago, American Airlines saved $40,000 per year by removing just one olive from each food tray in first-class. It proves that seemingly insignificant cost-cutting measures add up to significant savings.

Also, FFG would be doing Armada veterans a favour by not burdening us with more redundant junk that we don't need or want. So omitting command dials from ship expansions starting with Clone Wars Wave 1 is a win-win . It's only new Armada players who will be burdened with having to buy the Dial Pack. 😭

Just now, Reavern said:

It's only new Armada players who will be burdened with having to buy the Dial Pack. 😭

Not if we give them 30 dials and still keep the other 7,000,000 for ourselves...

Just now, The Jabbawookie said:

Not if we give them 30 dials and still keep the other 7,000,000 for ourselves...

Sure...

Just don't tell FFG about our command dial charity. 😉

6 hours ago, Reavern said:

Also, FFG would be doing Armada veterans a favour by not burdening us with more redundant junk that we don't need or want. So omitting command dials from ship expansions starting with Clone Wars Wave 1 is a win-win . It's only new Armada players who will be burdened with having to buy the Dial Pack. 😭

I disagree. I am a vet, and I want every dial. I don't want to be forced to pay extra money to get what has up to now been part of the package.

The dials being omitted makes as much sense as any other theory going so far. However... in my area, we have seen 4-6 games a year where the point totals per side are in excess of 5000. Yes the games literally take a weekend to play but d***, they look cool. 4 ISDs abreast with numerous other ships supporting against a conga line of 6 MC80Hs cutting across the imp line while swarms of CR90s flank. And that is just part of the action. You need all of those silly extra dials to field your entire collection against multiple opponents doing the same thing. Maybe I am odd, but I want everything needed to field any and all of my spaceships when and if the time comes.

3 minutes ago, Grand Admiral Buford said:

The dials being omitted makes as much sense as any other theory going so far. However... in my area, we have seen 4-6 games a year where the point totals per side are in excess of 5000. Yes the games literally take a weekend to play but d***, they look cool. 4 ISDs abreast with numerous other ships supporting against a conga line of 6 MC80Hs cutting across the imp line while swarms of CR90s flank. And that is just part of the action. You need all of those silly extra dials to field your entire collection against multiple opponents doing the same thing. Maybe I am odd, but I want everything needed to field any and all of my spaceships when and if the time comes.

Even more problematic would be that I would suspect players would be even MORE inclined to have massive battles of this nature with Clone Wars era ships due to the larger scale space battles in the prequels (Couruscant, Kamino, Umbara). So that could be a serious issue if lots of players want to do major engagements this way.

But just buy enough dials then. It saves everybody Else a lot of waste. Mother Nature sends her regards!

I might even send care package, if you want. 😉

19 minutes ago, drumtier said:

But just buy enough dials then. It saves everybody Else a lot of waste. Mother Nature sends her regards!

I might even send care package, if you want. 😉

The issue is we shouldn't have to buy an essential component to running our ship in a seperate pack. The idea is absurd. Yes, vets may have too many for ordinary games, but newbies won't, and forcing them to fork over extra money in order to be able to play is ridiculous.

The same concept of wasted space applies to defense and command tokens. But even then, the amount of space 'wasted' by including them is miniscule compared to the total amount wasted in an Armada pack, and given FFG's packing habits, more space will be wasted by the dial pack's bubble than the dials take up in a ship expansion.

Since the dials have to be somewhere, as otherwise the ships are unplayable, the most efficient, cheap, and customer-friendly approach is to include them with the ships, as FFG has been doing.

1 hour ago, Grand Admiral Buford said:

The dials being omitted makes as much sense as any other theory going so far. However... in my area, we have seen 4-6 games a year where the point totals per side are in excess of 5000. Yes the games literally take a weekend to play but d***, they look cool. 4 ISDs abreast with numerous other ships supporting against a conga line of 6 MC80Hs cutting across the imp line while swarms of CR90s flank. And that is just part of the action. You need all of those silly extra dials to field your entire collection against multiple opponents doing the same thing. Maybe I am odd, but I want everything needed to field any and all of my spaceships when and if the time comes.

I also enjoy playing Armada matches with massive fleets. My Imperial fleet pictured below is over 1700 points, and its grown since March 2019 when this photo was taken:

I plan to have massive fleet battles with Clone Wars ships too. If those Clone Wars ships don't come with command dials, I have at least 50 spares that I can use for those ships.

For Armada veterans, we already have all the commands dials that we need because they came in the ship that we've bought. If it's true that FFG is omitting command dials in the future, it will only effect new Armada players, because we veterans can use the command dials from our Imperial/Rebel ships for the Republic/CIS ships that might not come with dials.

If a new Armada player dives deep and buys a 1500+ point Republic or CIS fleet, then perhaps they will need to buy multiple Dial Packs to get all the dials they'll need. TS for them. If you're late to the party, it's your own fault you missed out on something.

If FFG does omit command dials from new ship expansions, I think it's a smart business decision for them and I support it because it will reduce waste and make Armada more profitable for FFG, which hopefully means more product Waves and Armada stays alive for years to come.

47 minutes ago, Reavern said:

If FFG does omit command dials from new ship expansions, I think it's a smart business decision for them and I support it because it will reduce waste

No it won't. It will increase waste, due to all the packaging that needs to be made for the new dial pack. And they have to make at least as many dials as are needed for the new ships, to guarantee that everybody who gets a new ship can play it, as counting on vets is a very risky business move that can backfire horribly. So the same number of dials are being made, with the extra cost of packaging for a new expansion pack.

2 minutes ago, GhostofNobodyInParticular said:

No it won't. It will increase waste, due to all the packaging that needs to be made for the new dial pack. And they have to make at least as many dials as are needed for the new ships, to guarantee that everybody who gets a new ship can play it, as counting on vets is a very risky business move that can backfire horribly. So the same number of dials are being made, with the extra cost of packaging for a new expansion pack.

Don't count on FFG making enough Dial Packs. Presumably, FFG has forecasted how many new players might buy into Armada when the Clone Wars expansions are released, and FFG is manufacturing enough Dial Packs to match that projection. FFG does this for all their expansions. They don't manufacture 10 million of every expansion and hope they all sell. They estimate the customer demand and manufacture enough supply to meet it -- I don't know, I'll say 500,000 units. However, FFG tends to be conservative in their estimates. I n case you haven't noticed, FFG is not great at keeping their products in stock, so there could be a Dial Pack shortage.

IMO the instances wherein an excessive number of Command Dials are needed are exceedingly rare, and in those situations, veteran players with dials to spare can loan them to new players.

Admittedly, I'm not accustomed to defending FFG, but in this instance, assuming we're right about the purpose of the Dial Packs, I believe FFG has the right idea.

Crabbok posted this new video about the Armada Upgrade Card Collection:

My prediction is that the upgrade card pack will include Jerjerrod and Sloane Imperial Commanders, because the Arquitens and Quasar ship expansions are always sold out. I also predict that most of the rare upgrade cards from the Liberty expansion will be in the collection. I know better than most players about the importance of the Liberty; I own 4 of them, mainly to get the Spinal Armament cards for my Star Destroyers.

1 hour ago, Reavern said:

Don't count on FFG making enough Dial Packs. Presumably, FFG has forecasted how many new players might buy into Armada when the Clone Wars expansions are released, and FFG is manufacturing enough Dial Packs to match that projection. FFG does this for all their expansions. They don't manufacture 10 million of every expansion and hope they all sell. They estimate the customer demand and manufacture enough supply to meet it -- I don't know, I'll say 500,000 units. However, FFG tends to be conservative in their estimates. I n case you haven't noticed, FFG is not great at keeping their products in stock, so there could be a Dial Pack shortage.

There is a difference between shortages due to demand, as with Quasars and Arquittens, and shortages of an essential item due to intenionally making too few. If the number of available new dials is not at least the amount needed by the new ships, the company is almost guaranteed to have angry customers unable to play with their models due to am intentional shortage. That is ludicrous.

I expect there will be a shortage of the new items, every wave undergoes it. But so long as the dials experience less or equal shortage than the ships, it's fine. That means less people bought ships than dials. That is to be expected. But if dials face a shortage greater than that of ships (as would happen if FFG intentionally made less dials than the new ships needed), it means some people will buy ships and have no dials. That is unacceptable. And it isn't a case of a conservative estimate of demand for dials. The amount of dials released must meet the needs of the number of ships released.

It is all well and good to say things like "I have loads of dials and can share", but that doesn't help the customers who don't live near you. Nor does it help those who threw away their spare dials. A company can't (or at least shouldn't) rely on the generosity of its existing customer base to absord intentional production shortfalls in order for new customers to be able to play the game. That is a horrible business model.

2 hours ago, GhostofNobodyInParticular said:

There is a difference between shortages due to demand, as with Quasars and Arquittens, and shortages of an essential item due to intenionally making too few. If the number of available new dials is not at least the amount needed by the new ships, the company is almost guaranteed to have angry customers unable to play with their models due to am intentional shortage. That is ludicrous.

I expect there will be a shortage of the new items, every wave undergoes it. But so long as the dials experience less or equal shortage than the ships, it's fine. That means less people bought ships than dials. That is to be expected. But if dials face a shortage greater than that of ships (as would happen if FFG intentionally made less dials than the new ships needed), it means some people will buy ships and have no dials. That is unacceptable. And it isn't a case of a conservative estimate of demand for dials. The amount of dials released must meet the needs of the number of ships released.

It is all well and good to say things like "I have loads of dials and can share", but that doesn't help the customers who don't live near you. Nor does it help those who threw away their spare dials. A company can't (or at least shouldn't) rely on the generosity of its existing customer base to absord intentional production shortfalls in order for new customers to be able to play the game. That is a horrible business model.

This reminds me of the Root board game. The first printing of Root included wood card holders for each faction, but the subsequent reprintings only included one, which I believe was for the AI faction or something. Leder Games doesn't even offer the wood card holders to buy separately; they just discontinued them because they were unnecessary.

At least FFG is providing the Dial Pack to purchase. And while FFG's track record means the Dial Packs will probably sell out, I don't believe it's going to cause serious problems. The Armada community has dealt with stock shortages of SHIPS and SQUADRONS for years, and those are necessary to play the game. A Command Dial can be mocked up with a bottle cap, scrap cardboard, a brass fastener, and a Sharpie. Or just write commands a sticky note. Command Dials aren't as critical as dice or the movement tool or range tool, and FFG sells two of the three separately. So a Dial Pack will just be another accessory pack, which only new Armada players will need to buy -- assuming we're right about the purpose of the Dial Packs.

I strongly disagree that the amount of Dial Packs must match the number of ships released.

Let's speculate for a moment that the Republic Fleet Expansion includes an Acclamator assault ship (medium, 2-command) and 2 C70 corvettes (small, 1-command); and the Separatist Fleet Expansion includes 2 Munificent star frigates (medium, 2-command). I'll probably buy 2 Republic expansions and 3 Separatist expansions. (BTW I'm only buying fewer Republic expansions because I'm going to buy a ton of Venators when they're released; whereas I want at least 6 Munificents to start.) Those ships would require 20 Command Dials total. I do not plan on buying any Dial Packs because I already own 100+ Command Dials. I imagine that most Armada veterans are not going to buy Dial Packs either because they can use the Command Dials from the ships they already own. The only players who will need to buy Dial Packs are new Armada players who only buy the Republic and Separatist Fleet Expansions.

If FFG makes Dial Packs for every Clone Wars ship, there are going to be a ton of Dial Packs that will never sell.

IMO if FFG makes Dial Packs for 25% of Clone Wars ships, that should be more than enough, because Armada veterans are going to pre-order the Clone Wars expansions and they'll probably sell out immediately after release, before new Armada players can get them. There will be plenty of Dial Packs available for new players to buy, but a shortage of Clone Wars Fleet Expansions available to use them for. Hopefully, FFG will ship a wave of restocks a month or two after the launch of Clone Wars Armada, and new players will buy in then -- and veterans will buy even more Clone Wars expansions. I think that as long as FFG produces Dial Packs for around 25% of the Clone Wars expansions they produce, it will be sufficient supply for new Armada players. If Clone Wars Armada becomes popular and the number of new players increases significantly, FFG can increase production of Dial Packs accordingly.

I suppose we'll have to wait and see.

I know that as an Armada veteran, I'm not concerned about the availability of Dial Packs at all. 😁

Here is a fun little exercise. Let's assume a corvette type uses a single command dial, a frigate is 2-3 and a cruiser type is 3-4. Then assume that the packs will include enough crap to make 6 dials. Just making up numbers so we can have a discussion here. If you are running a small rebel style fleet with a bunch of corvettes, a single dial pack may be fine. If you want to run say a double ISD or triple VSD, then you now need at least two packs of dials. You may end up with more dials than you really need. If you have a complete collection except for that brand new Klingon Viper Mk2 and you go pick that shiny new plastic ship up from the flgs. You now need some dials. Oh my that thing only needs a single dial but you now have to buy 5 extras just to play your new spaceship. There is all your waste coming back to get you. I guess to be good to the environment, you now need to buy even more ships so as not to be wasteful.

Anyway, if you can follow the lockdown addled logic used here, you can see that having dials removed from the standard contents, may not be doing anything to help reduce packaging waste at all. The only thing that is for sure is that, following the prevalent theory being expounded upon above, ffg stands to make a lot more money off of all the gamers regardless of why they would move the dials to a separate package. And isn't that really the entire point of any move made by businesses everywhere?

Radical idea: don’t use command dials. Just have a slip of paper for each ship and a pencil.

Mother earth thanks you.