1 hour ago, LTD said:

I hate to say it, but the right choice is ALWAYS most wanted - at least there is a cap on the amount of points you lose when/if the targeted ship is destroyed..

You say that....

8 minutes ago, Ginkapo said:

You say that....

Unless you are flying an SSD... but maybe even then?

1 hour ago, Bertie Wooster said:

Like this?

The Magnificent Seven

Faction: Rebel Alliance
Points: 389/400

Commander: Leia Organa (com)

Assault Objective: Most Wanted
Defense Objective: Asteroid Tactics
Navigation Objective: Hyperspace Migration

CR90 Corvette A (44 points)
- Jainas Light ( 2 points)
- Ezra Bridger ( 3 points)
- Turbolaser Reroute Circuits ( 7 points)
= 56 total ship cost

CR90 Corvette A (44 points)
- Turbolaser Reroute Circuits ( 7 points)
= 51 total ship cost

CR90 Corvette A (44 points)
- Turbolaser Reroute Circuits ( 7 points)
= 51 total ship cost

CR90 Corvette A (44 points)
- Turbolaser Reroute Circuits ( 7 points)
= 51 total ship cost

GR-75 Medium Transports (18 points)
- Sabine Wren ( 4 points)
- Proximity Mines ( 4 points)
= 26 total ship cost

[ flagship ] MC30c Torpedo Frigate (63 points)
- Leia Organa (com) ( 38 points)
- Admonition ( 8 points)
- Lando Calrissian (off) ( 4 points)
- Ordnance Experts ( 4 points)
- H9 Turbolasers ( 8 points)
- Assault Concussion Missiles ( 7 points)
= 132 total ship cost

GR-75 Medium Transports (18 points)
- Proximity Mines ( 4 points)
= 22 total ship cost

= 0 total squadron cost

Or— and hear me out—

Ackbar.

47 minutes ago, LTD said:

Unless you are flying an SSD... but maybe even then?

Unless you are flying an SSD with barely any upgrades. I was screwed whatever I did.

12 minutes ago, The Jabbawookie said:

Or— and hear me out—

Ackbar.

Not saying Ackbar or Rieekan wouldn't be better--this started with me trying to make a Leia fleet that I actually liked.

7 hours ago, BiggsIRL said:

The "best" counter to 134 points of squadrons is a more efficient 100 points of squadrons. For which the best counter is a more efficent 60 points of squadrons. For which the best counter is a more efficient 30 points of squadrons. For which the best counter is no squadrons. For which the best counter is 134 points of squadrons.

Not entirely true

Bombers < Fighters < Ships < Bombers.

134 pts of fighters hard counters 134 pts of bombers. However squadless build hard counters 134 pts of fighters.

So there are three sliders - bombers, fighters, ships. (Actually there is a fourth one - bid, but lets put it away for this exercise).

Once you compare those slider settings between fleets, you can calculate how hard one fleet counters another on that front.

8 hours ago, PT106 said:

Not entirely true

Bombers < Fighters < Ships < Bombers.

134 pts of fighters hard counters 134 pts of bombers. However squadless build hard counters 134 pts of fighters.

So there are three sliders - bombers, fighters, ships. (Actually there is a fourth one - bid, but lets put it away for this exercise).

Once you compare those slider settings between fleets, you can calculate how hard one fleet counters another on that front.

But what about sloane then? 🤔

2 hours ago, TallGiraffe said:

But what about sloane then? 🤔

Maarek and Jendon are a reasonable bomber force in their own right, and the rest of the fighters get a nice damage boost.

They’ll give squadless a run for its money without being some kind of semi-counter Hera/Scurrg spam.

In general I think the concept of “hard counters” is silly for this game, with a few very specific exceptions (like TFA+STM against Y-wings or TIE Bombers.)

Hi,

The things you gain from being an ace/hero squad are massive for the relatively small points increase in cost! Even just gaining the defensive tokens can make a huge difference! And, because a squadron command can activate X basic TIE fighters or X super mega aces, it's most effective for your support ships to use their actions to activate better squads. Your Squadron values go further with fewer and more expensive aces.

There's three mains way to beat a squadron heavy fleet with a squadron lite fleet

1) Be so tough and prickly that squads can't kill your fleet

This is best exemplified by an SSD with QLT and Agent Kallus. Your only ship is just so darned tough that squadrons may not be able to kill it quickly. The prickly part comes in by having upgrades that let you attack squadrons back (like QLT or Salvo tokens).

Though an SSD is the best example of this, an ISD or SH kitted against squads can do the same thing.

2) Bring a hunter killer squads

One of the best ways to beat a squad list is to bring a moderate (~50-60 points) of anti-squad fighters like Z-95s, tie fighters or tie interceptors. Combined with Reserve Hanger Bay, you can make your squads quite annoying to deal with.

Most importantly, KEEP YOUR SQUADS BEHIND YOU. Your opponent will probably start bombing your ships... then unleash your squads on them. This will leave them with an unpalatable choice of continuing to bomb your ship (and dying to your squads) or killing your squads while flying away.

3) Lose without dignity.
Whenever I see an opponent with squads, its not a question of whether he'll lose, but a question of by how much. Squad fleets can typically output more damage, have better offensive range (squads can hit farther than ship guns), and amazing objectives, so unless you play one of the two squad-lite fleet versions above, you're just going to lose.

So lose without dignity.... set up your ships and run away as fast and far away as possible as you can. You won't win... but your loss won't be crippling either. Assuming your opponent only catches one ship, you can get away with a 5-6 or 4-7 loss and just win your other games to win the tournament.

🙂

50 minutes ago, Yik said:

There's three mains way to beat a squadron heavy fleet with a squadron lite fleet

I do think you need the fourth option, table them turn three. Its highly effective but you do need to lean haaaaarrrrd on it.

52 minutes ago, Ginkapo said:

I do think you need the fourth option, table them turn three. Its highly effective but you do need to lean haaaaarrrrd on it.

Yup. That's the fourth way. It a lot of fun, way more fun than heavy squads for sure, but it can collapse like a house of cards. I called my Raddus fleet "a leaf on the wind" for a reason. But it can definitely be done. I feel like I proved that last year. I tabled 3 straight squad squad heavy Imps on day two, all by turn 4. And before the inevitable "those were bad players," one of those tablings was a blood bath against @MandalorianMoose. I...don't think anyone can reasonably call him a bad player. Oddly enough, my worst game was against @JJs Juggernaut, who was also squadless.

On 5/8/2020 at 6:02 PM, Yik said:

3) Lose without dignity.

Whenever I see an opponent with squads, its not a question of whether he'll lose, but a question of by how much. Squad fleets can typically output more damage, have better offensive range (squads can hit farther than ship guns), and amazing objectives, so unless you play one of the two squad-lite fleet versions above, you're just going to lose.

So lose without dignity.... set up your ships and run away as fast and far away as possible as you can. You won't win... but your loss won't be crippling either. Assuming your opponent only catches one ship, you can get away with a 5-6 or 4-7 loss and just win your other games to win the tournament.

🙂

https://cannotgetyourshipout.blogspot.com/2019/09/nova-winner-guest-post-22.html

1 hour ago, Ginkapo said:

I do think you need the fourth option, table them turn three. Its highly effective but you do need to lean haaaaarrrrd on it.

IME turn 4 is usually sufficient. You want to open palm strike on 2, break their back on 3, and finish on 4. Or at least that's how I did it for *checks notes* three 10-1s at NOVA, one of them without loss.

On 5/7/2020 at 2:03 PM, LTD said:

What Biggs said.

This is an excellent summary of the age old "rock paper scissors lizard spock" that sums up the nature of our game, and young players should take it to heart.

@Sobonis01OP - I imagine that part of your question stems from our big dumb 24 hour match up in round one. Be encouraged that you encountered that rarest of beasts - a sober Australian.

But actually - an MSU+S(R) bidding for second {Multiple Small Units with Squadrons (rogue)}. You were out-activated and out-deployed. You had the bid, but chose to go first (which is what I wanted). You then chose "fighter ambush", which gave me the potential to accrue an inordinate amount of tokens. Superior positions would have given the possibility of even more points. I hate to say it, but the right choice is ALWAYS most wanted - at least there is a cap on the amount of points you lose when/if the targeted ship is destroyed.

My current favourite list has many weaknesses - not least is being out-activated by an aggressive first-bidder with an MC30 or glad or bigger that can last/first my formation. At the moment, the meta is tending towards 5 activations at most - six is increasingly rare.

Effectively, your list encountered a list designed to destroy it. In the "big dumb" tournament I scored two 10/1s - both against squadless builds who either chose or were made first player. My two 6/5s were against a full squad list (Pryce!) and a heavy squad Yavaris list.

Ya, I made some really bad choices vs your fleet. Which is why I am trying to get some ideas on how to counter rogue. As I am a new player and don’t really run into squadrons heavy fleets around me. Which is why the tournament was a lot of fun losing as I learned a lot.