Just now, TasteTheRainbow said:

Euthanasia of the old and infirm was a central policy of the 3rd Reich.

Nobody is teaching very far when he’s straightup advocating for their policies, lol.

Nobody's going to enjoy starving to death to "save the old" either. There's a point where lockdown is counterproductive. Already in the UK they're having more excess cancer deaths because of canceled/delayed treatment because of covid, than they've had covid deaths. In the US food production is shutting down, meat rationing is already happening. The unemployment is also on track to kill more people than the disease, look up "deaths of despair".

You guys are all nuts. On both sides. This place really is in a death spiral. Maybe you can’t see it as you’re here all the time but as I dip and out it’s always worse every time come back.

Just now, Vykk Draygo said:

Could you be bothered to actually quote where he said grandma should die? I’ve seen that posted a few times now, but not by the one everybody wants to burn at the stake for saying it.

->

On 5/7/2020 at 3:57 PM, Stay OT Leader said:

Or just not be so selfish and die once you’ve led a decent life, which is what mankind has done for millennia and isn’t a drain on the future generations.

Aw man, it just turned from bad to really bad

as @Hiemfire said, don't silence opinions. But sure as heck call them out on it and push back. Declaring something as opinion is not some sort of magical shield, @Vykk Draygo and @Cerebrawl . You can't throw your opinions out there and then tuck tail and run away from the equivalent right to respond. If you don't defend your opinion then you waive your right to be taken seriously. If you don't intend to be taken seriously, then maybe stay away from the very loaded terms of eugenics and book burnings.

12 minutes ago, Vykk Draygo said:

But it’s funny all the people who ARE attacking are the ones who think they are just giving social pushback. What was said was a small comment that was taken by others to mean exactly what they wanted it to mean. Are you going to the local book burning afterwards as well? After all some of those things have some real agendas and actually spell it out so you are sure you know what it means, unlike in this case here.

Social pushback is exactly the limit of this forum unless you think one of us is hunting him down irl.

15 minutes ago, Cerebrawl said:

Nobody's going to enjoy starving to death to "save the old" either. There's a point where lockdown is counterproductive. Already in the UK they're having more excess cancer deaths because of canceled/delayed treatment because of covid, than they've had covid deaths. In the US food production is shutting down, meat rationing is already happening. The unemployment is also on track to kill more people than the disease, look up "deaths of despair".

This is identical to people who read a story about a seat belt trapping people and think it’s a reasonable jump to just stop wearing one anymore.

I am a public healthcare analyst. The idea that unemployment will kill more than the disease is absolutely manic. The idea that the unemployment would end just because we lift the lockdowns is absolutely manic. Like saying 5 is bigger than 1,000. We have barely left the gate and we’re already locked into probably 200,000 if we went on a real test/trace/lock plan today.

9 minutes ago, GreenDragoon said:

Aw man, it just turned from bad to really bad

as @Hiemfire said, don't silence opinions. But sure as heck call them out on it and push back. Declaring something as opinion is not some sort of magical shield, @Vykk Draygo and @Cerebrawl . You can't throw your opinions out there and then tuck tail and run away from the equivalent right to respond. If you don't defend your opinion then you waive your right to be taken seriously. If you don't intend to be taken seriously, then maybe stay away from the very loaded terms of eugenics and book burnings.

Ok. Tell me what my views are. Come on. I’ll get a chair and wait.

10 minutes ago, Naerytar said:

->

Alright, I’m not going to bother going back and adding the quote you put up of his because it does not say what you say it says. You can read what you want to into that but nowhere does it say grandma should die. You can infer whatever meaning you’d like into those words but it doesn’t say what you think it says. Maybe you should read the comment you posted without inferring any meaning that’s not actually on the page.

I can read anything and say it says whatever I want it to say but that unfortunately does not make it actually say what I want it to.

6 minutes ago, Stay OT Leader said:

Ok. Tell me what my views are. Come on. I’ll get a chair and wait.

I did not engage you, and I don't plan to. Why do you think I talked to you?

The only part that applies to you is that you should imo stop throwing your opinion out there in easily misunderstood ways and not clear misunderstandings.

It seems obvious to me that you stoked the fire way more than you should, and that your actual opinion is probably much more moderate than it can be understood from the snippets here. I alluded to that earlier, saying that you apparently act responsible.

But there is not much about your opinion and frankly I don't want to care.

18 minutes ago, TasteTheRainbow said:

I am a public healthcare analyst. The idea that unemployment will kill more than the disease is absolutely manic. The idea that the unemployment would end just because we lift the lockdowns is absolutely manic. Like saying 5 is bigger than 1,000. We have barely left the gate and we’re already locked into probably 200,000 if we went on a real test/trace/lock plan today.

Between 2000-2011 there were about 45,000 suicides a year attributed to unemployment. Unemployment has quadrupled as a result of the pandemic, so we should expect ca 135k more deaths of despair from unemployment 2020, if unemployment rates stabilize at the current level(they won't). Covid has reportedly killed 80k.

Oh and it'll take longer for the unemployment rate to go back to normal than the disease... the unemployment is going to be killing people for longer.

What’s SOTL???

Just now, JBFancourt said:

What’s SOTL???

Who.

User Stay OT Leader.

2 minutes ago, GreenDragoon said:

I did not engage you, and I don't plan to. Why do you think I talked to you?

The only part that applies to you is that you should imo stop throwing your opinion out there in easily misunderstood ways and not clear misunderstandings.

It seems obvious to me that you stoked the fire way more than you should, and that your actual opinion is probably much more moderate than it can be understood from the snippets here. I alluded to that earlier, saying that you apparently act responsible.

But there is not much about your opinion and frankly I don't want to care.

Just curious since you did talk to me, how did he stoke the fire when he made a comment and others lit the torches and grabbed the pitchforks? I mean what he had to say was like most of the things I read here, not very memorable. The mob that wanted to point out that someone was a horrible person for their comment lit the fires and stoked them to get everyone to notice. I actually think he’s the more intelligent one of all of us, he tried to sidestep the whole issue but no, that won’t work, too many people felt the need to make an issue out of it and prove he’s bad since they couldn’t provoke him into an online fight. As far as me getting into it I could care less what anybody’s opinion is on the matter ,it’s nothing more than an opinion. I have grown tired of seeing people here intentionally starting trouble and talking down to those with differing views, I guess I have a little too much American in me and believe in freedoms and rights to have kept quite during this witch hunt. I’m going to bow out now, as I should have done much, much earlier and let those who believe in censorship and all the other things that go with that enjoy themselves.

30 minutes ago, TasteTheRainbow said:

I am a public healthcare analyst. The idea that unemployment will kill more than the disease is absolutely manic. The idea that the unemployment would end just because we lift the lockdowns is absolutely manic. Like saying 5 is bigger than 1,000. We have barely left the gate and we’re already locked into probably 200,000 if we went on a real test/trace/lock plan today.

PS:

Quote

Lower bound . If the unemployment rate increases by 5 points as a result of the various lockdowns, then 294,170 additional lives will be lost, not from coronavirus, but from deaths of despair.

Mid-range . If the unemployment rate increases by 16.5 points (as predicted by Treasury Secretary Mnuchin), then 970,761 additional lives will be lost to deaths of despair.

Upper bound . And if the unemployment rate increases by 10-fold — which is what we are already seeing in several states — then 1,853,271 lives will be lost to deaths of despair from government orders to lock down, shut down, and shelter in place.

Source: https://thefullest.com/2020/03/26/will-deaths-of-despair-outpace-deaths-from-coronavirus/

19 minutes ago, GreenDragoon said:

I did not engage you, and I don't plan to. Why do you think I talked to you?

The only part that applies to you is that you should imo stop throwing your opinion out there in easily misunderstood ways and not clear misunderstandings.

It seems obvious to me that you stoked the fire way more than you should, and that your actual opinion is probably much more moderate than it can be understood from the snippets here. I alluded to that earlier, saying that you apparently act responsible.

But there is not much about your opinion and frankly I don't want to care.

Get your high horse out of here.

2 minutes ago, Cerebrawl said:

PS:

Source: https://thefullest.com/2020/03/26/will-deaths-of-despair-outpace-deaths-from-coronavirus/

And again, that’s just deaths which is not the only metric we could use, nor probably the most important.

1 minute ago, Stay OT Leader said:

Get your high horse out of here.

You demonstrate my point. You don‘t answer questions to clear misunderstandings, you go low instead. Stoking flames, @Vykk Draygo .

19 minutes ago, Cerebrawl said:

Between 2000-2011 there were about 45,000 suicides a year attributed to unemployment. Unemployment has quadrupled as a result of the pandemic, so we should expect ca 135k more deaths of despair from unemployment 2020, if unemployment rates stabilize at the current level(they won't). Covid has reportedly killed 80k.

Oh and it'll take longer for the unemployment rate to go back to normal than the disease... the unemployment is going to be killing people for longer.

Like I said, 135k is a drop in the bucket compared to letting the virus just sweep the country.

There is only one actual solution to preventing those extra deaths due to unemployment: Checks to the masses until we have a handle on the virus.

“Opening up” will not fix it at all. It won’t even help. It’ll just spike cases and deaths and make people more fearful and prevent the few places that could have opened up from doing so successfully.

Just now, TasteTheRainbow said:

Like I said, 135k is a drop in the bucket compared to letting the virus just sweep the country.

Per year. The virus is unlikely to kill more than 200k in the US, 300k at the outmost, the unemployment will be causing deaths for probably closer to a decade(if the deaths of this drop by 10% per year it's going to kill around a million people). If you don't save food production soon then starvation is going to make the deaths of despair look like a drop in the bucket.

20 minutes ago, Cerebrawl said:

PS:

Source: https://thefullest.com/2020/03/26/will-deaths-of-despair-outpace-deaths-from-coronavirus/

I don’t think linking to right wing conspiracy garbage is going to have the effect you think it is. FFS that article is still calling for Plaquenil, lol.

You have to vet your sources, man.

6 minutes ago, TasteTheRainbow said:

“Opening up” will not fix it at all. It won’t even help. It’ll just spike cases and deaths and make people more fearful and prevent the few places that could have opened up from doing so successfully.

Places with lockdown aren't having substantially less new cases than places without lockdown, if at all.

2 minutes ago, TasteTheRainbow said:

I don’t think linking to right wing conspiracy garbage is going to have the effect you think it is. FFS that article is still calling for Plaquelin, lol.

You have to vet your sources, man.

"Still calling for", the article is from march. Reading helps.

Just now, Cerebrawl said:

Per year. The virus is unlikely to kill more than 200k in the US, 300k at the outmost, the unemployment will be causing deaths for probably closer to a decade(if the deaths of this drop by 10% per year it's going to kill around a million people). If you don't save food production soon then starvation is going to make the deaths of despair look like a drop in the bucket.

Unlikely to top 200k? This would be news to all of the public health professionals who I work with. That’s an optimistic “by August” number to us.

We can save lives and food and everything with a competent, nationwide system of testing and tracing and localized, specific lockdowns.

Anything else is just fanning the flames, especially spreading conspiracy narratives.

3 minutes ago, Cerebrawl said:

"Still calling for", the article is from march. Reading helps.

Oh right, today he’s calling for... 5G conspiracies AND spas as treatment. Much better clearly using this nutbag’s blog as a source is THE MOST REASONABLE.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Children's_Health_Defense

3 minutes ago, Cerebrawl said:

Places with lockdown aren't having substantially less new cases than places without lockdown, if at all.

When normalized for testing rates this is entirely false.