My question is how easy do you think it is to take 2nd edition ships and come up with stats for playing with them in 1st edition?

Obvioulsy, I'm not talking about re-released ships. I'm also somewhat talking less about someone like Tali Lintra...not knowing if her special abilities apply only to the new edition. I could easily purchase her A-wing and just use the old A-Wing rules. And...I'm not talking about Clone War ships, I have no interest in them.

But when it comes to say, the Xi-class light shuttle, or Resistance Transport, do you think these things could be fine tuned for 1st edition play? How difficult do you think it would be?

Probably a few months with how many ships there are.

No, no, I mean ships that are already for sale.

So, I'm trying to figure out if the new rules are really so different than the old. I know there's a new Force stat or whatever now, but take the Resistance Transport that's already out. Would it really be difficult to use it in 1st edition?

That's what I mean, sorry if I wasn't clear.

1 minute ago, KelRiever said:

No, no, I mean ships that are already for sale.

So, I'm trying to figure out if the new rules are really so different than the old. I know there's a new Force stat or whatever now, but take the Resistance Transport that's already out. Would it really be difficult to use it in 1st edition?

That's what I mean, sorry if I wasn't clear.

Gotcha. I never really played that much 1st edition, but I don't see much difference in them. I think the main problem is that the second edition has changed some of the ships ability's to make it more balanced. If you add a ship from 1st it might be a little unbalanced. And then there's the app. Would you use old upgrades with the old ships?

@jhh3: yeah, I would use all 1st edition upgrades. I mean, I know it wouldn't be perfect. 'Point costs' are clearly reflective of 2nd edition for 2nd edition ships, but we're not talking some sort of hard core tournament here. This is a game amongst friends, reenacting battles with ships from the movies.

I just know some of these new ships are likely to take advantage of things like 'The Force'. And I'm thinking if it's just used on a card or two, or a special character, that should be no problem. But if these new ships come deeply engrained with inescapable rules from the new edition, I wouldn't want to use them.

Frankly, I don't want to drop $190 to upgrade to a new edition of the game that doesn't seem to add that much bang for its buck. If I spend money on FFG, I'd like to keep it to buying ships from them and things that make the already fun play of 1st edition have more ships and options for me.

24 minutes ago, KelRiever said:

So, I'm trying to figure out if the new rules are really so different than the old. I know there's a new Force stat or whatever now, but take the Resistance Transport that's already out. Would it really be difficult to use it in 1st edition?

Difficult, yes. Impossible, no.

You'd have to treat anything that refers to the System Phase as a "start of activation phase" ability, you'd have to either not use any Force-powered ship (eg. Aethersprite) or find a way to rework their abilities to ignore it, and you'd have to decide on a way to scale Initiative (1-6) back to Pilot Skill (1-9). And you'd have to pretend linked and red actions don't exist, which is a powerful balancing tool that's used on all Second Edition ships. And remember that Resistance and First Order have been split off into their own factions now, and new ships have been designed around that.

But that's all stuff you can work around with a bit of trial and error. Up to you if it's worth the effort.

@DR4CO : Thank you, I think it is. I mean for $190 it sure is to me!

First off, the Initiative to Pilot scale could be roughly doubled, with some thought put into it maybe? Avoiding Force powered ships could be easy if there is at least a base line, non-character profile that doesn't use the Force for everything (or just gets ignored, or is just counted as an automatic special ability, depending, as you say).

I don't even know what linked and red actions are! lol! But I can download the book and figure it out.

Factions our group only uses to recreate movie stuff. Nobody here is number crunching ludicrous force lists and stuff like that. We're basically playing Rebels versus Empire, or Resistance versus First Order. You know the way it was meant to be!

But on the linked versus red actions thing, do you think there's any sort of First Edition equivalent we could try to make up regarding it?

A couple of high points jump out at me:

* Point cost: Just divide by two.

* Initiative/Pilot Skill: Obviously needs to be scaled up. I feel like I4 is roughly equivalent to PS6, I5->PS8, I6->PS9. Then on the bottom end, probably I1->PS1, I2->PS3, I3->PS4. This is all finger-in-the-wind of course, but it feels about right in my brain (for what that’s worth).

* Turret arcs: Everything in 2.0 works like the Lancer’s mobile arc in 1.0, rather than 1.0’s standard 360 degree 1.0 arc-o-doom. This leaves you with the choice of whether to just keep the 2.0-style limitations, or whether to revert to the 1.0-style approach. I’d probably take it on a case by case basis. The RZ2 can probably be played 2.0-style, and will probably feel more unique for it. Whereas the Scum Falcon would probably feel more natural being played 1.0-style with a big 360 arc.

* If you’re not playing Republic or Separatists, this is probably all you’ll end up needing to modify. (Might be a couple of funky corner cases, but you’ll probably manage.)

* As you might expect, Republic and Separatists are (IMO) wired tighter into 2.0’s DNA than the 1.0 factions are. I might give them a pass unless you want to make the jump.

* I highly recommend making the jump to 2.0!! Yes it’s a sucky amount of money; yes you might feel compelled to hunt eBay for partial conversion bits if your collection doesn’t match what the kits give you; but overall it’s such a better balanced game.

Point costs: divide by two, rounded down.

Initiative: Increase by 50%, round up or down.

Linked actions: pretend they aren't there. You will take PTL and like it, mister.

Thank you guys, I'm still open for suggestion with the exception I can't see jumping to 2.0!

The turn dials I'll have to look into. RZA could easily be an old A-Wing dial, right? Scum falcon is cool but it's a bit out of the rebellion era, isn't it? And I heard a crazy rumor that Lando's falcon came with v1.0 and v2.0 rules, am I wrong on that?

Oh, so glad to hear ignore linked actions...one less headache is good!

Nobody around me wants to re-enact Clone Wars. Go figure....

4 minutes ago, KelRiever said:

And I heard a crazy rumor that Lando's falcon came with v1.0 and v2.0 rules, am I wrong on that?

Lando's Falcon did not come with 1.0 and 2.0 rules, no. The TIE Reaper and Saw's Renegades expansions, released shortly after 2.0 was announced, came with rules and pieces for both editions, but everything since then has had only 2.0 content.

12 hours ago, KelRiever said:

But when it comes to say, the Xi-class light shuttle, or Resistance Transport, do you think these things could be fine tuned for 1st edition play? How difficult do you think it would be?

Could it be done, to be sure. There are enough threads of folks home-brewing new ships and pilots and upgrades.

Will it be hard? Maybe. It'll be really easy to have bad balance. If "fine-tuned" is the goal, that might not work, but "not that bad" probably isn't that difficult.

Thing is, though, if you're just playing with friends, who cares? What's important is that you have a good time.

Lando's Falcon in Scum is a great example.

• I think all the pilots and statlines of the Falcon itself work as written. 2 dice turret, 1 agilty, 8 hull, 3 shields.
• Upgrade slots are mostly fine. Skip the Gunner slot, presume Scum-Gunner-Han is crew.
• I'd skip the Boost action, and make someone buy the upgrade, like for a Rebel/Resistance Falcon, but I guess L3-37 just gets a Focus action.
  • With red actions in general... I think most of the time, a ship just shouldn't be able to take it. With something like a red barrel roll on something... that ship probably didn't have a barrel roll at all in 1e. For a red coordinate or jam... that's harder. A lot of ships like the Resistance Transport *did* have coordinate or jam actions. Maybe sometimes bring in the 2e rule for a red action: you can do it, but get a stress. It's a bit more complicated, but seems like it'd make a lot of sense for some things.
• Title seems fine as written on the Falcon.
• Docking the escape craft should be easy, since the Ghost/Phantom rules exist.
• When it comes to points, if dividing by 2 leaves something feeling cheap... just increase it a bit. Making 2e conversion stuff too strong just seems wrong. Homebrewing up OP stuff probably isn't a tonne of fun.
  • Also, compare to the cost of other things with similar stats in 1e. Han probably shouldn't be too far in price from Dengar without a title.
  • Making sure stuff it at least close to balanced is probably important to having a good time.

@theBitterFig : Thanks. I may have to try Lando's falcon at some point. The Solo series is a weird point in time for by the movie ships. TIEs are eternal, but the rebel situation might take some work. I think the way my friends and I play it would be a one time appearance ship. I wasn't looking forward to getting it and converting it, but now with what you posted, maybe I will.

Ended dropping like $90 on more first edition stuff, like another TIE another Y-Wing (who doesn't need more of those? ). Tali is going to be my first delve into converting, because worst case scenario, it's just another A-Wing figure. After that, might delve into things like the Resistance transport...weirdly out of stock in a lot of places, and maybe now the Lando Falcon. It does look pretty boss.

We're playing the CR90 campaign by text right now. It's not the best at all as far as balance goes, so I'm certainly already not worried about that! But it does look great when we take pics of it and send in our text games, and it's good for having a lot of fighters on the board too.

On 5/1/2020 at 8:08 PM, KelRiever said:

Tali is going to be my first delve into converting, because worst case scenario, it's just another A-Wing figure.

Just thinking about Tallie for the moment...

Her pilot ability doesn't necessarily translate well, since it's a bullseye arc ability. However, most things are more powerful in 1e, so I'd actually probably be OK expanding it to full arc. Keep the once-per turn. Result "Once per turn, when a ship in your firing arc attacks, the defender may roll 1 additional defense die." Seems OK. Somewhat comparable to Gemmer Sojan, but not exactly.

Same actions of Focus/Lock/Evade/Boost. Same upgrade bar of Elite/Missile/Modification.

I'd skip the possible rear guns.

She's an Init 5, so PS 7 or 8 would be the best fit, and I'm kind of leaning towards 7. Both to keep power levels fairly low, but also since that feels right. Tallie's great, but she seems more like a 7 than an 8 to me. I'd make her cost 24 points, same as Jake Farrell. Her ability is OK, but probably not quite as good as a bonus action like Jake gets.

I was looking forward to getting Tallie, and realized I ordered the new RZ-1 lol! Oh well, I have yet another fancy, different painted A-Wing. RZ-2 is now on its way.

Did get the Tie Reaper. That's going to help. I find it very weird that in the 1st edition it has a small ship base, but a large in the 2nd edition. I'm wondering why they did that. The U-Wing gets a large base, the TIE Reaper looks like to should get the same.

3 hours ago, KelRiever said:

I was looking forward to getting Tallie, and realized I ordered the new RZ-1 lol! Oh well, I have yet another fancy, different painted A-Wing. RZ-2 is now on its way.

Did get the Tie Reaper. That's going to help. I find it very weird that in the 1st edition it has a small ship base, but a large in the 2nd edition. I'm wondering why they did that. The U-Wing gets a large base, the TIE Reaper looks like to should get the same.

Both the Reaper and U-Wing are on the new medium bases in 2.0, which suits both of those ships much better than the large or small bases.

(Said medium bases also get used for several other craft which also straddle that line, like ARC-170s, TIE Punishers, Firesprays and so on).

On 5/2/2020 at 2:08 AM, KelRiever said:

@theBitterFig : Thanks. I may have to try Lando's falcon at some point. The Solo series is a weird point in time for by the movie ships. TIEs are eternal, but the rebel situation might take some work.

Z95s and Y-wings are old crafts, and could be around like some very early just budding rebel cells.

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Some 2nd edition dials are a bit better than the old 1st edition dials, as there is generally less 360 firing and combo wombo stuff in 2nd ed. So for some ships imported from 2nd ed you might consider stepping down dials a bit. (Or you step up the really early 1st edition ships, which were suffering against the vastly better dials of late wave 1st. ed stuff)

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On 5/2/2020 at 2:08 AM, KelRiever said:

We're playing the CR90 campaign by text right now. It's not the best at all as far as balance goes, so I'm certainly already not worried about that! But it does look great when we take pics of it and send in our text games, and it's good for having a lot of fighters on the board too.

Having the Huges on the table is just gorgeous!

The CR90 campaign has a lot of issues, though. Shuttle Tydirium pod made a series about the different CR90 scenarios, around 2017, e.g. episode 32 and some others before.

On 5/3/2020 at 4:12 PM, theBitterFig said:

...Her pilot ability doesn't necessarily translate well, since it's a bullseye arc ability. However, most things are more powerful in 1e, so I'd actually probably be OK expanding it to full arc. Keep the once-per turn. Result "Once per turn, when a ship in your firing arc attacks, the defender may roll 1 additional defense die." Seems OK. Somewhat comparable to Gemmer Sojan, but not exactly.

Same actions of Focus/Lock/Evade/Boost. Same upgrade bar of Elite/Missile/Modification.

I'd skip the possible rear guns.

She's an Init 5, so PS 7 or 8 would be the best fit, and I'm kind of leaning towards 7. Both to keep power levels fairly low, but also since that feels right. Tallie's great, but she seems more like a 7 than an 8 to me. I'd make her cost 24 points, same as Jake Farrell. Her ability is OK, but probably not quite as good as a bonus action like Jake gets.

I have gotten her finally, and I agree. Actually, I think what you could do instead of making it a 'once per turn' you could replace the charge use with using a Focus token, and yes, keep the effect for an enemy in your entire forward arc performing an attack. Seems not so OP that way but still good. Agree on Pilot Skill 7 and 24 points for cost as well.

I want to work on the other pilots in the set too, now that I have the cards!

On 5/6/2020 at 5:03 AM, AceDogbert said:

Both the Reaper and U-Wing are on the new medium bases in 2.0, which suits both of those ships much better than the large or small bases.

(Said medium bases also get used for several other craft which also straddle that line, like ARC-170s, TIE Punishers, Firesprays and so on).

Yeah, true, but that Reaper really sticks out big over the edge of that small base! It still looks mega strange to me!

On 5/6/2020 at 6:10 AM, Managarmr said:

Z95s and Y-wings are old crafts, and could be around like some very early just budding rebel cells.

----

Some 2nd edition dials are a bit better than the old 1st edition dials, as there is generally less 360 firing and combo wombo stuff in 2nd ed. So for some ships imported from 2nd ed you might consider stepping down dials a bit. (Or you step up the really early 1st edition ships, which were suffering against the vastly better dials of late wave 1st. ed stuff)

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Having the Huges on the table is just gorgeous!

The CR90 campaign has a lot of issues, though. Shuttle Tydirium pod made a series about the different CR90 scenarios, around 2017, e.g. episode 32 and some others before.

I don't have Z-95's as I've stuck as close as I can to strictly movie vessels. But yeah, you'd think there was something more than Y-Wings along for the ride back then. And the ARC fighters still seem super old to me...but maybe those? *shrug* I also try to avoid any Clone Wars stuff.

The dials are a bit different and I agree with you for the most part. Of course, for like ships like A-Wings there are always the old dials. I like using the new Dials for anything in The Force Awakens era, however. Like using the RZ-2's ability to Seignor Loop. Makes more sense to keep the maneuverability as time advances, right?

The Corvette does make me cry when it comes to rules. Part of the problem with FFG's release, and their to make you buy new stuff to get cards to try to fix the game, until it finally capitulated into 2nd edition, was a few things happening to me:

1. Trying to balance fun play and fan play with some crazy tournament number crunching maniacs

2. Selling lawts and making phat $$$

3. A bad system for correcting flaws.

Cards that were not good in first edition, like Proton Torpedoes, and things like Turbo Lasers on the CR90 stand out because they are clearly fluff and movie based cards. When people play a game, they want to play with these things because hey, that's what was in Star Wars. But...the rules for them are bad so what do you do? So far, it has worked for me to stick to movie based and era based stuff...there's no T70 X-Wings flying with T65s, there are no scum and villany ships, there are no insane upgrade cards from stuff as even most upgrades are restricted. But sometimes something really bad still gets through. Like Turbo Lasers. Good for, really, nothing at all. Just save the energy!

Make no mistake though, this campaign we're doing has all the fun going on. The players involved know what's up and they're doing a great job of rolling with it.

The problem with turbolasers is that they should struggle to hit starfighters but when they do it should hurt. So maybe try 2 dice that you cannot modify if it hits it deals 3 damage and the sequence ends.

So the 1.0 reaper needed to be on a small base and have a better dial because the tail end of 1e was broken. It wouldnt have been playable without the better dial.