Was there a rule change about evade?
If I recall, this wasn't still enough to avoid the utter death of true MSU right? Just make having a few small ships/flotillas in a larger game still viable. (Basically the entire archetype is wiped out competitively from a data perspective right?)
Are there other major rules or meta changes?
Is there something that can be done rules/game mechanics wise to make dead archetypes viable again?
The evade change was really just a new rule to account for the Onager’s extreme range. It’s somewhat helpful for MSU. Really I think raising the squadron cap was the death of MSU. The lift to 50% squadrons gave a much needed boost to an under represented aspect of the game, but not allowing Salvo to be used on squadrons was probably a bit heavy handed.
Rules wise I think we just need some point adjustments. Leia is too cheap for what she does, and Sloane could use a buff.
Edited by AstrodarAgree with Astrodar's first sentence. Everything after that, not so much.
here's the data sheet:
I think Truthiness might try to pull data out of the various vassal tournaments that have been happening during lockdown, but otherwise nothing new to tell us what the meta looks like.
Personally, I'm starting up a Rebellion in the Rim campaign on Tabletop simulator with a friend, and super excited to play again. I haven't had a game since Baltasdottir started crawling, and she's 3 now...
20 minutes ago, Astrodar said:The evade change was really just a new rule to account for the Onager’s extreme range. It’s somewhat helpful for MSU. Really I think raising the squadron cap was the death of MSU. The lift to 50% squadrons gave a much needed boost to an under represented aspect of the game, but not allowing Salvo to be used on squadrons was probably a bit heavy handed.
Rules wise I think we just need some point adjustments. Leia is too cheap for what she does, and Sloane could use a buff.
When did squadron cap become 50%? I didnt see anything in the rrg or faq abt squads now being limited to 50% up from 33.3%
Just now, Shecian said:When did squadron cap become 50%? I didnt see anything in the rrg or faq abt squads now being limited to 50% up from 33.3%
Take a moment, then reread his entire post.
36 minutes ago, Astrodar said:The evade change was really just a new rule to account for the Onager’s extreme range. It’s somewhat helpful for MSU. Really I think raising the squadron cap was the death of MSU. The lift to 50% squadrons gave a much needed boost to an under represented aspect of the game, but not allowing Salvo to be used on squadrons was probably a bit heavy handed.
Rules wise I think we just need some point adjustments. Leia is too cheap for what she does, and Sloane could use a buff.
The troll is strong with this one.
So... what was the evade rule change?
Anything else?
13 minutes ago, Blail Blerg said:So... what was the evade rule change?
Spending an Evade at extreme range cancels two dice.
1 hour ago, Admiral Calkins said:Spending an Evade at extreme range cancels two dice.
Does that mean 3 dice with Foresight on the MC30?
53 minutes ago, XR8rGREAT said:Does that mean 3 dice with Foresight on the MC30?
No - 4
{edit - nope 3. I had misremembered.
https://starwars-armada.fandom.com/wiki/Foresight?mobile-app=false
}
7 hours ago, Blail Blerg said:So... what was the evade rule change?
Anything else?
https://www.fantasyflightgames.com/en/news/2020/3/2/deploy-the-fleet/
Check out the new FAQ.
I think were at the start of turn 2. The objective is blockade run. We've set up our fleet and the games starting to take shape. There are at least 5 turns ahead of us as start to make our run to the otherside dodging the obstacle in our path. May the force be ever in our favour.
In my local group, MSU is seen as horribly overpowering.
This is partly because most of my friends like flying big Imperial ships without any squadrons.
And I fly Leia's Nebulons of Death. Which are utterly murderous against large ships lacking in squadrons.
40 minutes ago, Gilarius said:In my local group, MSU is seen as horribly overpowering.
This is partly because most of my friends like flying big Imperial ships without any squadrons.
And I fly Leia's Nebulons of Death. Which are utterly murderous against large ships lacking in squadrons.
I like big Imperial ships, but I would never turn up without squadrons. That's potty.
40 minutes ago, flatpackhamster said:I like big Imperial ships, but I would never turn up without squadrons. That's potty.
I think so too, but they keep doing it!
Cue many complaints about how broken TRCs are and how weak the big ships are in comparison 😄
1 hour ago, flatpackhamster said:I like big Imperial ships, but I would never turn up without squadrons. That's potty.
Its seat of the pants stuff. Your opponent will have wasted points in anti squadron power. But you need to table them fast.
3 hours ago, Gilarius said:And I fly Leia's Nebulons of Death. Which are utterly murderous against large ships lacking in squadrons.
This intrigues me so much, can you explain Leia's Nebulons of Death?? Do mean Commander Leia or Officer Leia?
2 hours ago, SithLrd88 said:This intrigues me so much, can you explain Leia's Nebulons of Death?? Do mean Commander Leia or Officer Leia?
Commander, with a gunline of cheap nebulons. Spam CF for an extra die+ reroll
5 hours ago, Gilarius said:I think so too, but they keep doing it!
Cue many complaints about how broken TRCs are and how weak the big ships are in comparison 😄
Why doesn't someone turn up with a heavy bomber wing? If I kept getting marmalised by a long range nebuliser fleet I would either rock up with a Motti fleet with a 130pts of fighters and bombers or an Ozzel Kuat/double gladiator. Either of those will give the rebel scum something to chew on.
9 minutes ago, flatpackhamster said:Why doesn't someone turn up with a heavy bomber wing? If I kept getting marmalised by a long range nebuliser fleet I would either rock up with a Motti fleet with a 130pts of fighters and bombers or an Ozzel Kuat/double gladiator. Either of those will give the rebel scum something to chew on.
Because when you're dealing with Rock/Paper/Scissors concepts like that, you might be Scissors to their Paper, but you tend to forget that they'r ebringing paper in the first place because someone else is bringing lots of Rocks.
... Which means in a Tournament Setting, you might never see Paper, only Rocks.
Just now, Drasnighta said:Because when you're dealing with Rock/Paper/Scissors concepts like that, you might be Scissors to their Paper, but you tend to forget that they'r ebringing paper in the first place because someone else is bringing lots of Rocks.
... Which means in a Tournament Setting, you might never see Paper, only Rocks.
But this isn't tournament, it's a bunch of people who play regularly together. For some people you know what they're going to turn up with. The chap I play regularly plays rebels because even though he likes big ships moving around slowly shooting big guns he likes to pretend he's the good guy. So I know I will be seeing large bases, and either Raddus or Sato as a rule.
1 minute ago, flatpackhamster said:But this isn't tournament, it's a bunch of people who play regularly together. For some people you know what they're going to turn up with. The chap I play regularly plays rebels because even though he likes big ships moving around slowly shooting big guns he likes to pretend he's the good guy. So I know I will be seeing large bases, and either Raddus or Sato as a rule.
Sure.
Everything Counts. Until they decide to do something different to trip you up.
That's mostly my point... Inherent Gaming Contracts are different when its Casual "Friendly" play.
There's a reason why I don't typically engage in "Casual, Friendly Play."
It Rarely Is.
Well, I've only actually used my Nebulons twice at my local store. And now 3 more times online since lockdown started. I've asked each time if my opponents wanted to face them, by the way. It's not something I'm imposing on them. I give them a choice of which faction they want me to use, then offer a couple of alternative fleets most of the time.
But in our recently concluded Corellian Conflict campaign, 2 of my fellow Rebel players ran MSU, featuring many CR90s. It's tricky to rebuild a fleet in the campaign, but they still refused to use squadrons apart from the one guy running Sloane who was unbeaten all campaign.
Meanwhile, the Rebels won the campaign convincingly.
Since then I've been spamming Onagers online. 3 is too many, but 2 might be the right number.
Our next campaign is a Rebellion in the Rim at 400pts. I can fit one CR90 plus 6 Nebulons, all with TRC....so I am.
4 hours ago, flatpackhamster said:Why doesn't someone turn up with a heavy bomber wing? If I kept getting marmalised by a long range nebuliser fleet I would either rock up with a Motti fleet with a 130pts of fighters and bombers or an Ozzel Kuat/double gladiator. Either of those will give the rebel scum something to chew on.
My Nebulons faced 2 heavy squads fleets at the only tournament I've been to.
Rieekan and Garm. Both got First Player (one was my choice). Asteroid Tactics and the pre-nerf Hyperspace Migration were chosen.
I scraped a win both times, due to lucky dice in the first and because HM was stupidly broken in the 2nd.
In practice, I beat 2 Sloane fleets by tabling them - killing the carriers quickly can be enough, and many people don't believe that their ISD will die in 2 turns until they see it happen. (If I ever get all 6 ships firing at the same target, it'd only take one turn.)
Reminder, I'm talking about the overall meta. Anecdotally you can have OP MSU, but as people have already stated, its because every-someone's decided not to bring mass squads. The question is directed at competitive level, mass-squads-and-massive-activations-often-and-often-OP level conversation.
Is MSU dead? Is there something that should be done to bring it back?
Are there truly data-driven or new options/new objectives? available to combat all of the issues going against it?