How would you feel if new ship abilities were just remixes of old ones? Meaning the trigger for a ship ability procs the effect of a different ship ability.

Some examples:

Executing a 3 speed maneuver lets you lock or roll.

After fully executing a maneuver, you may take a deplete or a strain to rotate a turret.

While defending at range 1 in an enemy's front arc, you may change one crit result into a hit.

When performing a cannon attack, you may spend the calculates of friendly ship's at r0-1 as if they were your own.

After you perform an action, you must execute a white 1 straight or 1 bank.

If you are not critically damaged, you may ignore asteroids.

I think it something that can and has already happened.

A few ships already have a trigger where are they execute a maneveur, fully or partially, they can do something. Or after they perform an action they can do another as a red action.

There is only so much totally unique they can do before things become similar or the same without adding in New mechanics. And frankly with deplete and strain I don't think anything new is gonna pop up for a little.

We already have a bit of this with the TIE/ba.

I'd like to see some more abilities make use of the strain/deplete mechanic, especially in the OG factions. Something for Hotshots and Aces 2: Electric Boogaloo (pilot abilities, configs, titles, modifications, etc).

4 hours ago, Hoarder of Garlic Bread said:

After you perform an action, you must execute a white 1 straight or 1 bank.

This one I definitely like as a unique and whacky ability, especially if it has linked actions, or combined with a coordinator.

13 hours ago, Hoarder of Garlic Bread said:

How would you feel if new ship abilities were just remixes of old ones? Meaning the trigger for a ship ability procs the effect of a different ship ability.

Some examples:

Executing a 3 speed maneuver lets you lock or roll.

After fully executing a maneuver, you may take a deplete or a strain to rotate a turret.

While defending at range 1 in an enemy's front arc, you may change one crit result into a hit.

When performing a cannon attack, you may spend the calculates of friendly ship's at r0-1 as if they were your own.

After you perform an action, you must execute a white 1 straight or 1 bank.

If you are not critically damaged, you may ignore asteroids.

Some of those particular abilities make sense, some of them don't. In general, I'm fine with most ship abilities being rather remix-y.

I LOVE the deplete/strain to rotate a turret. That needs to be an upgrade, but not a gunner. A nice mod slot, so that someone like a Lancer can leverage their great blues a bit more. What's nice about deplete/strain compared to stress is that it can be an actual downside. Stress, depending on timing, depending on dial, can be an incredibly trivial downside. Getting a red rotate action for a lot of ships is going to be rather strong. Getting a deplete/strain rotate is either a reduction in offense (which balances out the fact that you'll potentially be taking a shot you couldn't otherwise take), or potential defense reduction. It's got a lot smaller of a chance to be a no-consequence action efficiency.

1 hour ago, theBitterFig said:

I LOVE the deplete/strain to rotate a turret. That needs to be an upgrade, but not a gunner. A nice mod slot, so that someone like a Lancer can leverage their great blues a bit more.

Lancer:

You like the idea of rolling only 1 red from the turret (Lancer and allot of other turrets, good luck with actually hitting anything with that even with what amounts to a gimmie Focus token on top of it) or 0-1 green on defense (every ship with an actual turret or turret upgrade slot, most of which do not have reinforce)??? For me that ability would have to cost negative points (-1 or -2), even with the abilities (Jan, Torkil, Palob, Sabine, etc...) that could possibly build off of it.

Edit: It'd probably be priced centered on the effect it'd have on Dash though since for the YT-2400 it'd amount to a slightly worse version of Leia pilot with Luke gunner...

@Hiemfire I mean, you don't *have* to strain/deplete for an extra rotate, so negative point costs are absurd.

First, in general, on any potential turret:

What is this in value? Sometimes better Agile Gunner, sometimes worse. They both provide an extra rotate. AG has no costs, but an odd timing. This has a really useful timing trigger, but potentially high in-game costs. Like Agile Gunner, simply having the extra action efficiency is great. You can rotate for times when you don't need it immediately, but will over the next few turns. Flip the gun to the side so that you can keep it there over the next few turns. Maybe you've got a safe position and can Strain. Maybe you want to Deplete and do something like Boost or Roll for position, after a move to reset for the next few turns. That's a way to leverage an extra action, and maybe get a shot when none was possible.

//

About the Lancer and why I'd make it specifically a mod slot? It's because I don't want the Lancer entirely locked out of it. Lancer is locked out of Agile Gunner. I don't mind, since the Lancer shouldn't have a Gunner slot while Veteran Turret Gunner exists. It'd sure be nice for the Lancer to have something to help it leverage that turret, and something to help it leverage those great Blue moves, since right now, it has jack **** to help it take advantage of either. Strain/Deplete Rotates do both. Do both well? Probably not astounding, but it'd sure be useful to have that option.

I don't think I'd bother using it on a turn if I was only going to get a Range 2-3 turret shot and I didn't feel I could strain, but at Range 1, getting a 2-dice attack on someone along side your ship or behind it is sure better than having no attack.

//

Bringing it back to the general and less specific: would Agile Gunner ever be worth equipping if it didn't cost the Gunner slot? There are cases where that'd be quite good.

• Certainly on Dash, mans needs all the action economy he can get.
• On a Resistance YT-1300? Maybe. Finn and Rey Gunner are both amazing (so AG is out), and the red rotate *sucks*, so having a way to cheat rotates would be nice.
• On a different YT-1300? Again, maybe. That'll allow a lot of flexibility in how you fly, and boosting large turrets are surprisingly good arc dodgers. Getting a rotate in there at the same time? Solid. However, Agile Gunner isn't too bad, since Rebel gunners aren't always amazing.
• On a VT-49? Why not? Just strain, since you aren't rolling defense dice anyhow.
• On a Lancer? Well, now that depends on price. I don't necessarily want to spend 8 points to actually-use my 2-dice turret, but spending 4ish, I could see.
• On a HWK? Of course not, since you've got linked Focus-Rotate.

3 hours ago, theBitterFig said:

@Hiemfire I mean, you don't *have* to strain/deplete for an extra rotate, so negative point costs are absurd.

First, in general, on any potential turret:

What is this in value? Sometimes better Agile Gunner, sometimes worse. They both provide an extra rotate. AG has no costs, but an odd timing. This has a really useful timing trigger, but potentially high in-game costs. Like Agile Gunner, simply having the extra action efficiency is great. You can rotate for times when you don't need it immediately, but will over the next few turns. Flip the gun to the side so that you can keep it there over the next few turns. Maybe you've got a safe position and can Strain. Maybe you want to Deplete and do something like Boost or Roll for position, after a move to reset for the next few turns. That's a way to leverage an extra action, and maybe get a shot when none was possible.

//

About the Lancer and why I'd make it specifically a mod slot? It's because I don't want the Lancer entirely locked out of it. Lancer is locked out of Agile Gunner. I don't mind, since the Lancer shouldn't have a Gunner slot while Veteran Turret Gunner exists. It'd sure be nice for the Lancer to have something to help it leverage that turret, and something to help it leverage those great Blue moves, since right now, it has jack **** to help it take advantage of either. Strain/Deplete Rotates do both. Do both well? Probably not astounding, but it'd sure be useful to have that option.

I don't think I'd bother using it on a turn if I was only going to get a Range 2-3 turret shot and I didn't feel I could strain, but at Range 1, getting a 2-dice attack on someone along side your ship or behind it is sure better than having no attack.

//

Bringing it back to the general and less specific: would Agile Gunner ever be worth equipping if it didn't cost the Gunner slot? There are cases where that'd be quite good.

• Certainly on Dash, mans needs all the action economy he can get.
• On a Resistance YT-1300? Maybe. Finn and Rey Gunner are both amazing (so AG is out), and the red rotate *sucks*, so having a way to cheat rotates would be nice.
• On a different YT-1300? Again, maybe. That'll allow a lot of flexibility in how you fly, and boosting large turrets are surprisingly good arc dodgers. Getting a rotate in there at the same time? Solid. However, Agile Gunner isn't too bad, since Rebel gunners aren't always amazing.
• On a VT-49? Why not? Just strain, since you aren't rolling defense dice anyhow.
• On a Lancer? Well, now that depends on price. I don't necessarily want to spend 8 points to actually-use my 2-dice turret, but spending 4ish, I could see.
• On a HWK? Of course not, since you've got linked Focus-Rotate.

Loving your thoughtful expansion on my thoughtless mashing of the TIE/ba and the RZ-2. I suppose monkeys can type a bit of Shakespeare.

Also note that this is stapled to Double Edge, possibly turning him decent. Deplete to rotate for effectively free on a chassis that relies on green mods to not vaporize, and not get too sad as you might have a "real" attack this turn in the form of a missile after your turret misses.

Back to the Shadowcaster, even if you are depleting, getting to rotate to turtle down with Sabine or Assaj offer those pilots huge boosts in efficiency. Heck, straining to properly rotate a recspec/Maul Sabine is more defensive than having the turret facing the wrong way! Further edge cases of straining to rotate for defense include those against Outmaneuver and/or fragile ships.

If this is a cheap mod, staple it to the vast majority of LAAT's. You'll see why.

Y-wing's and K-wing's are in most cases fine with the strain, especially with 7th fleet Gunner (although deplete probably for that), Broadside, etc.

In many cases, Dengar will strain to rotate back to front, but with the cannon slot, less often. Scum Falcons could benefit though.

22 hours ago, Hoarder of Garlic Bread said:

After you perform an action, you must execute a white 1 straight or 1 bank.

This would be fun. Terrifyingly effective, rage-inducing, and ridiculous, but extremely fun. Imagine normal ace stuff but they get an extra boost after EVERY ACTION. It would be like if Guri, Anakin, Vader, Duchess, and Soontir had a collective love child that snorted a glitterstim-flavored red bull and then overclocked his thrusters so hard they almost exploded. Even if the ship didn't have linked actions, you could still coordinate to them in order to action -> fake boost -> move -> action -> fake boost. If either or both of those actions is a boost or barrel roll, this ship could go literally anywhere it wanted to. Flying it would be the most fun thing you've ever done and also the absolute worst experience for your opponent. All that being said, I want to fly it now.

7 minutes ago, Npmartian said:

This would be fun. Terrifyingly effective, rage-inducing, and ridiculous, but extremely fun. Imagine normal ace stuff but they get an extra boost after EVERY ACTION. It would be like if Guri, Anakin, Vader, Duchess, and Soontir had a collective love child that snorted a glitterstim-flavored red bull and then overclocked his thrusters so hard they almost exploded. Even if the ship didn't have linked actions, you could still coordinate to them in order to action -> fake boost -> move -> action -> fake boost. If either or both of those actions is a boost or barrel roll, this ship could go literally anywhere it wanted to. Flying it would be the most fun thing you've ever done and also the absolute worst experience for your opponent.

Tbf, when I mashed those together, then played with it on the mat on my floor, i thought of turning all of the non-focus actions red and no mod slots. Still, silliness can commence, but it's more limited. The best way to organize this ability might be just a normal bar and typical slots, but make it forcing you to spend your 1 recurring charge ASAP after performing an action.

It'd be nice to just have the core rule for any red move be strain or deplete to perform. It'd be likely busted. But it'd be nice. Id be so hard back into a 2400 if it was that way.

I thought it was neat when Luminara and her Padawan Bariss had that strong theme of a 'remix' of the same ability. When it's used like that it gives a lot of flavor.

I like some of the new ability ideas. I would assume we are going to see some remixes and some net new ideas (such as recurring charges on the LAAT now).

I really like the strain/deplete to rotate arc because I think that would be pretty good on a handful of ships. Lancer was called out already, but I think it would even maybe be worth it on a non-Nom jumpmaster. The cannon slot helps them a lot, but this could be an alternative to that (especially if they’re taking strain). Red rotate link is just so painful for them once the fight starts and there’s no obvious way to capitalize on the “go left” approach.

I might even consider it on Ys.

On 4/28/2020 at 4:25 AM, Npmartian said:

This would be fun. Terrifyingly effective, rage-inducing, and ridiculous, but extremely fun. Imagine normal ace stuff but they get an extra boost after EVERY ACTION. It would be like if Guri, Anakin, Vader, Duchess, and Soontir had a collective love child that snorted a glitterstim-flavored red bull and then overclocked his thrusters so hard they almost exploded. Even if the ship didn't have linked actions, you could still coordinate to them in order to action -> fake boost -> move -> action -> fake boost. If either or both of those actions is a boost or barrel roll, this ship could go literally anywhere it wanted to. Flying it would be the most fun thing you've ever done and also the absolute worst experience for your opponent. All that being said, I want to fly it now.

I mean, how much more maneuverable is it compared to say Fireball? (Move -> Slam -> roll).

It's also possible to have it as a pilot ability on a ship that doesn't have boost and/or roll.

2 hours ago, Cerebrawl said:

I mean, how much more maneuverable is it compared to say Fireball? (Move -> Slam -> roll).

It's also possible to have it as a pilot ability on a ship that doesn't have boost and/or roll.

SLAM has a downside, and locks you into going pretty fast. Meanwhile, even if it just has focus/target lock or focus/evade, you can still get double mods and a double boost with the ability that can overlap obstacles. Even if one of the actions was red, most factions have a way to clear off the stress.