I've always loved the concussion rifle in Dark Forces, but most of the examples in the rules so far don't quite match. We've been toying with the idea of designing an attachment that makes a blaster rifle behave a little like that. Doing some reading from canon sources on the Imperial Heavy Repeater and concussion rifles in general, it seems it's a modification of the tabana gas process, so it seemed plausible; likely a modified XCiter module. I'd like people's inputs on what the stats for this might look like.

So, a few goals: The closest example I've found to what I'm looking for is the MR-90. So looking for a more compact, lower power version of that weapon (reduced damage, range, encumbrance), but still retain the concussive mode. Another goal is it should have stun mode capabilities (knocking someone silly), as many of the knockdown weapons do. The purpose would be to have a weapon that could function in a backup mode as something like an energy-based scattergun or concussion grenade launcher, then require a reload (like the MR-90 or Imperial Heavy Repeater's special function). The thought is it fires a highly focused, volatile blaster bolt that ruptures on contact, causing a concussive blast. Focused like this, it could also cause heavy pierce or breach effects. In a stun mode, it's less focused, causing instead things like Blast. Either mode, the energy behind it would probably give it the knockdown function.

So, some desires (some of these may be mods to the attachment):

1. In all modes:
   1. Adds knockdown
   2. Possibly adds pierce
   3. Possibly -1 damage
   4. Adds 1-2 enc
   5. Takes 1-2 HP
   6. May add +1 cumbersome
   7. Should not preclude the use of barrel attachments
2. Adds concussive fire mode:
   1. Adds concussive
   2. May add breach
   3. May add blast

One quick example is: 2 HP, adds 1 enc. to weapon, adds qualities Knockdown, pierce +1, damage -1. Also adds secondary fire mode that adds concussive +1 and breach +1. If in stun mode, it instead adds concussive +1 and blast +4. Mods: damage +1, pierce +1

Another thought is to reduce it to 1HP, then perhaps remove the mods or something.

My personal goal is leaning more towards the concussive/knockdown/pierce effects over damage. I also want this to be something you could add to a rifle fairly easily, so I'd lean more towards sacrificing things to reduce the HPs needed.

My character has a DDC-MR6 Modular Rifle, so one thought is to build an attachment for it. Another thought would be it's a permanent modification to the modular rifle, to basically make a Modular Rifle version of the MR-90 Proton Rifle. This could potentially also be an underslung energy-based concussive weapon, like an under barrel grenade launcher or scattergun. It requires the limited-ammo quality, but the ammo is just a standard power cell like reloading after using the MR-90's special feature.

Anyway, what're people's thoughts on this sort of thing?

Off the cuff? I'd say: 2 HP; +1 Enc; Knockdown, Blast 50%, Cumbersome 3 or +1. Then mods to allow it to gain the Concussive quality, maybe increase Blast damage, I don't know.

Just wanted to state for the record that the LJ-50 from FiB is based on the weapon from Republic Commando.

3 hours ago, P-47 Thunderbolt said:

Off the cuff? I'd say: 2 HP; +1 Enc; Knockdown, Blast 50%, Cumbersome 3 or +1. Then mods to allow it to gain the Concussive quality, maybe increase Blast damage, I don't know.

Just wanted to state for the record that the LJ-50 from FiB is based on the weapon from Republic Commando.

Thanks for the thoughts on the stats. Seems like a good mix. One thing I'm trying to balance, which makes it tricky, is putting it on the modular rifle has a different impact than say a heavy blaster rifle. I guess I don't need to have it be balanced in both states, but I feel it should be close. For example, if this has Blast 5 (or 4, depending), how does that stack up compared to the Spread Barrel or Beam Splitter attachments?

And yeah, that's why I'm not a fan of the LJ-50. The one off of Dark Forces was a much more serious, refined weapon. The Imperial Heavy Repeater from Battlefront II works as well, though the aesthetics leave something to be desired, and I was looking for something more blaster-like. The Proton Rifle is good too, but a huge weapon. Almost would be happy with just a short barrel version of that.

6 minutes ago, RobertYork said:

Thanks for the thoughts on the stats. Seems like a good mix. One thing I'm trying to balance, which makes it tricky, is putting it on the modular rifle has a different impact than say a heavy blaster rifle. I guess I don't need to have it be balanced in both states, but I feel it should be close. For example, if this has Blast 5 (or 4, depending), how does that stack up compared to the Spread Barrel or Beam Splitter attachments?

One adds Blast 4, the other adds Blast 50%. They both reduce the weapon's range, one has 2 Blast +1 mods, the other has 2 Disorient +1 mods.

After looking at them, I'd suggest pushing it up to 3 HP and including a "reduce range band" clause.

For the selective fire mode it should also probably get the Prepare 1 quality.

Also, how does it compare to a grenade launcher, scattergun or flame thrower under the barrel? Those give effectively similar solutions if blast is the selective fire mode. And with 3 HP and reducing the range, that brings a modular rifle down to short, and prepare 1 really takes it down.

That's why I was thinking you only get blast on the selective fire mode, and only in the non-lethal setting. Brings it more on par with a scattergun or grenade launcher. Those are effectively the same, as you take a maneuver to reload them after using, just as you would for this or the Proton Rifle/Imp Heavy Repeater.

Edit: Not a simple question, I know. Almost a philosophy of how to balance weapons, and if I need to worry about it in a more narrative focused game, anyway.

The hookup is that it gets Concussive and doesn't have Limited Ammo. Knockdown is a plus, but not that great.

Maybe drop Prepare, but you have to give it more context than just a single weapon. The DDC-MR6 is something of an aberration in the rifle field, having a range of Medium. Most rifles have a range of Long. Lowering the range by 1 makes sense, especially since the Blast-adding attachments reduce range.

Instead of Prepare, adding Slow-Firing 1 might make more sense.

I'm not sure that the secondary fire mode should have a stun setting, but it doesn't not make sense.

Under-Barrel Flame Projector is absolutely broken with Burn 8, you can't get much better than that.
The Grenade Launcher is only as good as the grenades you load it with, and each shot costs credits.

That's why I was thinking concussive should also be only on the secondary fire mode. That effectively means it has Limited Ammo 1 for concussive and/or blast, making it more akin to a grenade. Pretty similar to how the MR-90 is set up. The big benefit is not requiring a second form of ammo other than fresh power cells.

Another approach I tried looking at it from was what if the secondary fire mode of the MR-90 was just an attachment? Remove the secondary fire mode and gain 2 HP back on the MR-90.. does that put the MR-90 on par with other heavy blaster/sniper rifles? I think it brings it close to the DH-X or Light Repeating Blaster. Certainly not worse.

6 minutes ago, RobertYork said:

That's why I was thinking concussive should also be only on the secondary fire mode. That effectively means it has Limited Ammo 1 for concussive and/or blast, making it more akin to a grenade. Pretty similar to how the MR-90 is set up. The big benefit is not requiring a second form of ammo other than fresh power cells.

Yeah, Concussive should probably only be a secondary fire mode.

Here's what I would suggest:
Effects on the base weapon: 2 HP; +1 Enc.
Secondary Fire Mode: Gain qualities: Prepare 1, Slow-Firing 1, Cumbersome 3 or +1, Concussive 1, Blast 50%, Knockdown. It reduces the weapon's range by one range band to a minimum of Short, and can only be applied to rifle-size weapons. It doesn't run out of ammunition except on the standard expenditure of Despair or Threat as depends on the weapon.

The trick here is making it useful without negating the usefulness of the MR-90 or just being directly inferior to the MR-90. To this end, I'm pretty sure adding Slow-Firing and Prepare is the right way to go.

Slow fire and prepare makes sense for the alt fire mode. Mechanically if you had slow-fire on an alternate fire mode, does this mean the prepare is basically switching modes (a maneuver), then you can fire the secondary mode, then you can't fire again for one full round, even if you switch back to the primary fire mode? I think the MR-90 just has that it causes a maneuver to switch modes either way (effectively Prepare, if I understand it right). This is adding Slow Fire, like you said, to not diminish the MR-90, so it feels like a good compromise.

Another weapon I got some inspiration from was one in the classic Demolition man. Some sort of fusion rifle or something, but I liked how it took a bit to charge up. I think that sort of thing fits in well with this concept, too.

Thanks for the discussion, I like how this is going.

1 hour ago, RobertYork said:

Slow fire and prepare makes sense for the alt fire mode. Mechanically if you had slow-fire on an alternate fire mode, does this mean the prepare is basically switching modes (a maneuver), then you can fire the secondary mode, then you can't fire again for one full round, even if you switch back to the primary fire mode? I think the MR-90 just has that it causes a maneuver to switch modes either way (effectively Prepare, if I understand it right). This is adding Slow Fire, like you said, to not diminish the MR-90, so it feels like a good compromise.

It takes a Maneuver to charge an MR-90 to fire, after which it runs out of ammo, not unlike the Pulse Cannon.
Only the secondary fire mode has the Slow-Firing 1 and Prepare qualities, not the primary fire mode. Thus, if you switch modes as an incidental, you can fire every round, alternating between fire modes.
Unlike the MR-90 and the Pulse Cannon, the secondary fire mode doesn't run out of ammo after each shot. This is why I added Prepare instead of saying it take a Maneuver to prime. This way, even if you keep it in the secondary fire mode, you have to take a maneuver to "prime" it each time before firing.

Gotcha, makes sense. Thanks again! We'll see if anyone else has thoughts about it.