Right from the start I should mention, this isn't going to be top meta. It's a dumb fleet and I like it.

A brief on the intended design (and gimmick): Miranda can user her ability on the Han shot to either deal solid damage at init 7, or regen a shield to survive. Then her normal shot is ideally her missile, or if she's stuck running, her Sabine-empowered bombs may tag the pursuer. Esege is providing focus tokens where they're needed, which really helps the team's offense and defense. And Wedge does Wedge things, on which he's an expert. He's both providing high damage output and a powerful incentive to target him instead of his allies (who struggle with maneuvering when targeted; a K-Wing's only trick is the SLAM, and they're not able to do much on those turns). Miranda and Esege also make decent blockers and area controllers.

Miranda Doni (42)
Barrage Rockets (8) (used to be Diamond Boron Missiles)
Han Solo (14)
Sabine Wren (3)
Seismic Charges (3)
Proton Bombs (5)
Shield Upgrade (4)
Ship total: 79 Half Points: 40 Threshold: 5

Wedge Antilles (55)
Crack Shot (1)
Servomotor S-Foils (0)
Ship total: 56 Half Points: 28 Threshold: 3

Esege Tuketu (44)
Barrage Rockets (8)
Perceptive Copilot (8)
Proton Bombs (5)
Ship total: 65 Half Points: 33 Threshold: 5

Total: 200

View in Yet Another Squad Builder 2.0: https://raithos.github.io/?f=Rebel Alliance&d=v8ZsZ200Z17XW97WW84W57W71W69W165Y5X116WWWW142Y18XW97WWW54W69WW&sn=A Revised Miranda Fleet&obs=

So pretty casual in design -- nobody is raving about Miranda in tournaments these days -- but I do want to make sure it's effective. One of the troubles I encountered in my tests was not being able to reliably get locks for Miranda's Diamond Boron Missile because of her middling init, so I'm switching that out for Barrage Rockets. Focus tokens are much more reliable to grab at middle init since there's no range restriction or need to call a target and guess who will be in arc, and Esege is providing more focuses as needed. And she can always lock for the dice mods when she's confident, it just helps that she doesn't rely on them now.

My question is, does this switch make sense? Or are DBMs still a better choice? Are other changes to the fleet warranted?

It's not dumb, could be quite good actually. I'm no Rebel player, but it seems like it doesn't really have a weakness.

Well, with the exception of the K-Wing model, which I dislike the most of all ships in the game. No offense, I have friends who like it (very subjective), but I cannot get into it.

1 minute ago, clanofwolves said:

It's not dumb, could be quite good actually. I'm no Rebel player, but it seems like it doesn't really have a weakness.

Well, with the exception of the K-Wing model, which I dislike the most of all ships in the game. No offense, I have friends who like it (very subjective), but I cannot get into it.

I like how the k-wing looks, but not how it flies. I've found it's a ship that either needs to be extremely patient (Miranda can play like this in the late game), or you've got to do as much as possible on the initial approach and then make sure your team is okay as you get turned around. It's not an ideal munitions delivery platform IMO... gunboats and others are better for their price, features, and maneuverability.

But this fleet kinda works, hopefully better than before with barrage rockets now equipped.

I am tempted to trade shield upgrade for advanced slam to do more on those slam turns, but the extra shield helps Miranda a good deal in the early game. And she's not great at clearing stress, so it has to be used judiciously.... but it would probably be worth it to reload or lock on those slam rounds?

Well, 1.0 Miranda was poison to the game; slam with TLT on her pilot ability and PS was disgusting. And to boot, the ship (in appearance) was either loved or hated.

Due to the new Miranda wanting to be in front or have her actual arc on someone is refreshing actually, it used to not matter. Salt from the previous iteration aside, I can’t help but think Advanced Slam is still the best option you can put on her, due to the areas you can reach is just so amazing. Maybe keep just one bomb and go with better missiles?

1 hour ago, clanofwolves said:

Well, 1.0 Miranda was poison to the game; slam with TLT on her pilot ability and PS was disgusting. And to boot, the ship (in appearance) was either loved or hated.

Due to the new Miranda wanting to be in front or have her actual arc on someone is refreshing actually, it used to not matter. Salt from the previous iteration aside, I can’t help but think Advanced Slam is still the best option you can put on her, due to the areas you can reach is just so amazing. Maybe keep just one bomb and go with better missiles?

Do I need to remove the other bomb for reasons other than affording advanced slam? I'm not starved for points -- Advanced SLAM is cheaper than Shield Upgrade. Something like this, perhaps.

Miranda Doni (42)
Barrage Rockets (8)
Han Solo (14)
Sabine Wren (3)
Proton Bombs (5)
Seismic Charges (3)
Advanced SLAM (3)
Ship total: 78 Half Points: 39 Threshold: 5

Wedge Antilles (55)
Crack Shot (1)
Servomotor S-Foils (0)
Ship total: 56 Half Points: 28 Threshold: 3

Esege Tuketu (44)
Barrage Rockets (8)
Perceptive Copilot (8)
Proton Bombs (5)
Delayed Fuses (1)
Ship total: 66 Half Points: 33 Threshold: 5

Total: 200

View in Yet Another Squad Builder 2.0: https://raithos.github.io/?f=Rebel Alliance&d=v8ZsZ200Z17XW97WW84W57W69W71W104Y5X116WWWW142Y18XW97WWW54W69WW236&sn=A Revised Miranda Fleet2&obs=

I find this so funny, I was doing some Jank Tank Random, and this Miranda literally came up. It intrigued me and formed a list around it. It seems actually decently solid, but not meta. Might be fun though.

That’s worth a go. Like I said, it really has no weaknesses and should do well against all the typical lists. Slam is just too good. Let me know how it plays.

Cheers!

You can't fire the whole turn after SLAM right?

I do wish one could afford R2 Astro on Wedge. But I don't really see anything in the list that I'd take out either.

Does the shield spending/recovering synergy make Bomblet Generator on Miranda a good choice in place of Proton Bombs?

1 minute ago, DarthHenryAllen said:

Does the shield spending/recovering synergy make Bomblet Generator on Miranda a good choice in place of Proton Bombs?

Oh, just tried to plug it into YASB and was reminded Bomblet would consume bother device slots 😞

3 hours ago, DarthHenryAllen said:

Does the shield spending/recovering synergy make Bomblet Generator on Miranda a good choice in place of Proton Bombs?

I like the certainty of proton bombs. Bomblet Generator's tendency to blank out when I really need a damage hurts, especially when it's so hard to get foes in the blast zone already.

Also, recovering the shield doesn't always work out for bomblet generator's timing. It needs to spend the shield at the start of activation, while Miranda regains her shield during engagement, with plenty of time to lose the shield again to enemy fire.

But if you're good at avoiding shots or you're fighting foes that shoot before you recover the shield, bomblet generator would be slightly faster at recharging and wouldn't disarm you. But as you say, it hurts that it takes up all her payload slots. And I've found Miranda's shield doesn't last: either she wants to recharge to survive incoming fire, or she wants to spend the shield trying to murder something with her Han shot before it can shoot back.

On 4/8/2020 at 6:58 PM, Blail Blerg said:

You can't fire the whole turn after SLAM right?

I do wish one could afford R2 Astro on Wedge. But I don't really see anything in the list that I'd take out either.

Just the turn you SLAM. Normal disarm mechanic as a round orange/yellow token.

Yup. With Advanced SLAM you could optimize the turn by locking or reloading while you're disarmed and hopefully out of arc. Doesn't matter how many disarm tokens a k-wing has, they're all shed at the end of the round. It's the stress that's troubling. You have to be judicious about when to stress a k-wing, especially Miranda, because it could really harm your ability to position well or SLAM-bail out of a bad situation next round.

SLAM is a tad frustrating on the K-Wing though because it strongly encourages hit & run, a strategy I'm not always in the mood to play. And your only strong strategy against some teams is to do the wicked first edition Miranda strategy of "run away and drag out the match". You don't have the shoot-while-disarmed mechanics of the starwing, but you do have bombs and the ability to reload while far away, so running like a rabbit and waiting for the right opportunity (or running down the clock) often comes up late game as the correct strategy. But I've played against running Miranda and other such lists enough to revile the strategy; I don't like to treat my opponent that way. So I often play the list wrong, simply to avoid dragging out the match to a full 75 minutes to haggle over a few points of MOV. It's a casual game not a tournament, and this isn't the sort of list I bring to a tournament.

Thankfully the k-wing does have bombs and a double arc, which give some interesting options for how to maneuver inside a tussle instead of SLAMing away as an automatic response. It's not the meta-valid way to play, but it's way more fun for both sides if I'm in the tussle causing chaos... instead of eternally skirting the edges refusing to engage until the perfect round. This Miranda in particular is pretty well built for staying engaged, and Esege adds to that nicely.

If Angled Deflectors weren't objectively terrible, I'd even consider reinforcement as a strategy against swarms in this team since dice mods are supplemented by Esege. But no, angled deflectors are shockingly bad; it'd be hard to make the case for them even if they were 0 points. The game would literally have to pay me to equip them.

Another design I considered uses Bistan instead of Han, since Miranda's ability triggers for each primary attack she makes. So she could fire once against an unimportant target to regain a shield, then fire again against the real target and spend the shield to boost her attack.

It seems weaker than the Han variant above though. You can't always benefit from Bistan because the enemy doesn't always present two targets in arc. And the other gunners like VTG are not good for this ship. If only she could add an "after attacking" effect like Hotshot Copilot to make the double-attacking matter more when it happens, but it might need to be stronger than hotshot copilot to really make it worthwhile.

Miranda Doni (42)
Diamond-Boron Missiles (6)
Bistan (14)
Saw Gerrera (9)
Proton Bombs (5)
Ship total: 76 Half Points: 38 Threshold: 5

Esege Tuketu (44)
Barrage Rockets (8)
Perceptive Copilot (8)
Proton Bombs (5)
Seismic Charges (3)
Delayed Fuses (1)
Ship total: 69 Half Points: 35 Threshold: 5

Wedge Antilles (55)
Servomotor S-Foils (0)
Ship total: 55 Half Points: 28 Threshold: 3

Total: 200

View in Yet Another Squad Builder 2.0: https://raithos.github.io/?f=Rebel Alliance&d=v8ZsZ200Z17XW238WW77W58W69WWY18XW97WWW54W69W71W236Y5XWWWW142&sn=Miranda w%2F Bistan&obs=

I tried a variance of this list online (I know it ain't the same, but its all we got rn), and I had a ton of fun with it. It was...

Hera Syndulla (VCX-100) (72)
Intimidation (3)
"Zeb" Orrelios (1)
Saw Gerrera (9)
Ghost (0)

Ship total: 85 Half Points: 43 Threshold: 7

AP-5 (32)
Phantom (0)

Ship total: 32 Half Points: 16 Threshold: 3

Miranda Doni (42)
Cluster Missiles (5)
Concussion Missiles (6)
Han Solo (14)
R2-D2 (Crew) (10)
Angled Deflectors (6)

Ship total: 83 Half Points: 42 Threshold: 4


Total: 200

View in Yet Another Squad Builder 2.0: https://raithos.github.io/?f=Rebel Alliance&d=v8ZsZ200Z61X122WWWW65W58WWW148Y72XWWWW167Y17XW98W99W84W56WWW247&sn=Seems Fun&obs=

It was actually a ton of fun to fly. R2 regenerating the shield for a consistent 3 attack dice with Miranda at I 7 with Han was really nice. Miranda was also able to consistantly get two actions from AP either in the ghost or out of it. I didn't get to use it much, but angled deflectors are there to help if she gets focused fired. Then having Hera roll through opponents with her 4 die attacks afterward to (hopefully) start dealing some damage, and to finish it with Concusssions to flip up those damage was really nice. I faced this 4 rebels list and was met with overall success.

Wedge Antilles (55)
Crack Shot (1)
Servomotor S-Foils (0)

Ship total: 56 Half Points: 28 Threshold: 3

Jake Farrell (36)
Ship total: 36 Half Points: 18 Threshold: 2

Benthic Two Tubes (46)
Perceptive Copilot (8)
Leia Organa (7)
Pivot Wing (0)

Ship total: 61 Half Points: 31 Threshold: 4

Garven Dreis (X-Wing) (47)
Servomotor S-Foils (0)

Ship total: 47 Half Points: 24 Threshold: 3


Total: 200

View in Yet Another Squad Builder 2.0: https://raithos.github.io/?f=Rebel Alliance&d=v8ZsZ200Z5X116WWWW142Y50XWWY36XWW54W46WW140Y6XWWWW142&sn=New Squadron&obs=

So while the opponent's list wasn't meta, it was certainly pretty threatening. What are your guys' thoughts. One question I had is can Miranda actually perform 3 attacks if she uses Han and then uses Cluster Missiles to get two more shots? Han doesn't say his shot is a bonus attack, so I imagine it would work this way.

Looks like a fun list! I like artoo on Miranda restoring shields so she has something to spend on her Han attack somewhat consistently. Your opponent's list isn't bad -- good health, support, and firepower -- and I think the two lists are a neat matchup. Congrats on the win!

On 4/30/2020 at 9:26 AM, NoobMaster70 said:

One question I had is can Miranda actually perform 3 attacks if she uses Han and then uses Cluster Missiles to get two more shots? Han doesn't say his shot is a bonus attack, so I imagine it would work this way.

Any attack outside the one granted in Engagement is a bonus attack -- FFG has an official ruling covering Han's wording since it came up once. The exception is huge ships using their hardpoints that have a "Bonus Attack: " header, as huge ships have special rules that let 'em bypass the normal bonus attack limit.

Since each ship can only perform one bonus attack per round, this is trouble for pilots like Miranda with Han + Cluster Missiles, or counter-attacking pilots like Quickdraw/Dengar etc. That single bonus attack is a limited resource that's quite troubling for any ships with lots of ways to spend it... Quickdraw is particularly affected in my experience, as she really needs those counterattacks to be threatening, but both her pilot and cluster missiles offer bonus attack options that can be a trap to players; they need to be judicious.

So cluster missiles would be better replaced with Advanced Proton Torpedoes, to cover your close range and make that R1 volley extremely potent. Ideally it's a 4-dice shield-boosted primary at init 7 followed by a 5-dice APT blast at init 4, so your opponent would be wise to try to avoid arc at R1.

On 4/30/2020 at 9:26 AM, NoobMaster70 said:

angled deflectors

*twitch* guh... *cringe* S-sorry, just a n... nervous tick from listbuilding PTSD. Maybe I have something lodged in my eye. And throat. And brain. 😉

I jest. I've tried so hard to make Angled Deflectors worth it because I find the challenge compelling, but they're always worse than other options due to the lost shield, high points cost, and high opportunity cost. Closest I've seen to making them useful is a Fanatical Scorch, who will never reinforce; he's spending 3 points to start Fanatical. Quirky, not quite meta, and extremely clever! Nothing else has impressed me, so unless FFG adjusts the card's rules or costs, I always advice not equipping them. (example errata: "if your action bar already has the Reinforce action, you may cancel crits before hits while reinforced" would make a few ships very interested in the card. Or just make them ultra-cheap, but FFG may be hedging against a specific combo that was problematic.)

IMO swap 'em for a hull upgrade or proton/ion bombs for Miranda. Bombs with optional Delayed Fuses are surprisingly effective board control when you're being chased or flanked, which helps give Miranda space to get turned around and ready for another dual frontal assault with Han + Missiles/Torps. Hera would also benefit from a turret to cover her sides IMO. Or Miranda may like Advanced SLAM to reload after SLAMing away, though clearing that stress can be tricky so it needs to be used judiciously.

It's a shame you're one point short of delayed fuses, or Seismic Charges and a turret for Hera, but consider this adjustment to your list:

Hera Syndulla (VCX-100) (72)
Intimidation (3)
"Zeb" Orrelios (1)
Saw Gerrera (9)
Ghost (0)
Ship total: 85 Half Points: 43 Threshold: 7

AP-5 (32)
Phantom (0)
Ship total: 32 Half Points: 16 Threshold: 3

Miranda Doni (42)
Adv. Proton Torpedoes (6)
Concussion Missiles (6)
Han Solo (14)
R2-D2 (Crew) (10)
Proton Bombs (5)
Ship total: 83 Half Points: 42 Threshold: 5

Total: 200

View in Yet Another Squad Builder 2.0: https://raithos.github.io/?f=Rebel Alliance&d=v8ZsZ200Z61X122WWWW65W58WWW148Y72XWWWW167Y17X134WW99W84W56W69WW&sn=Seems Fun&obs=

If the bombs aren't your thing, then Hera wants either an Ion Turret, or Dorsal Turret and a Hull Upgrade.

I may try flying your list at some point, or some variation thereof. It looks fun!