So one of the few card types my newbie group hasn’t really delved into is Devices. Rather, they’ve hit the table exactly twice, in the same game, both from the same TIE Bomber (Deathfire). The opponent managed to mess me up pretty good with an Electro-Proton Bomb that Deathfire dropped as he died, but mostly because the range on those things is bananas... but at their cost, they ought to have a good blast radius. The Proton Bombs he was trying to drop in my way were never remotely a factor; I found it extremely easy for my A-, B-, X-, and Y-Wings to just avoid them.

”Launching” Devices like Prox Mines and Conner Nets seems good, given that (As I understand it) if you can place them directly under an enemy ship, they detonate immediately, but the only way I can see to easily do that is to use a Resistance Bomber with a Trajectory Simulator. Is there another way to launch devices, with any ship from any faction? Some upgrade I haven’t yet discovered, or a ship ability I overlooked? I know TIE/sa Bombers have “Nimble Bomber,” and that seems... sort of helpful. I dunno. Help me out! How do you effectively use Devices? Swarm lists with tons of the same device types? One deluxe bomb-dropper? Is there a faction that is well-suited to Device use? Or are they cool upgrades with interesting but largely ineffective gameplay?

One thing you need to know about trajectory simulator though is it only allows you to launch “bombs”, not “mines”. This made me sad after i first realized it.

20 minutes ago, Cpt ObVus said:

So one of the few card types my newbie group hasn’t really delved into is Devices. Rather, they’ve hit the table exactly twice, in the same game, both from the same TIE Bomber (Deathfire). The opponent managed to mess me up pretty good with an Electro-Proton Bomb that Deathfire dropped as he died, but mostly because the range on those things is bananas... but at their cost, they ought to have a good blast radius. The Proton Bombs he was trying to drop in my way were never remotely a factor; I found it extremely easy for my A-, B-, X-, and Y-Wings to just avoid them.

”Launching” Devices like Prox Mines and Conner Nets seems good, given that (As I understand it) if you can place them directly under an enemy ship, they detonate immediately, but the only way I can see to easily do that is to use a Resistance Bomber with a Trajectory Simulator. Is there another way to launch devices, with any ship from any faction? Some upgrade I haven’t yet discovered, or a ship ability I overlooked? I know TIE/sa Bombers have “Nimble Bomber,” and that seems... sort of helpful. I dunno. Help me out! How do you effectively use Devices? Swarm lists with tons of the same device types? One deluxe bomb-dropper? Is there a faction that is well-suited to Device use? Or are they cool upgrades with interesting but largely ineffective gameplay?

To be clear Trajectory Simulator allows you to launch bombs not mines.

It's harder to catch an opponent with a bomb with the changes in 2.0. You have to be a little more creative. The Tie Bomber with the agile bomber and the bombadier card allows you to drop a bomb or mine with the two speed templates. Two straight or banks gives a large area of danger to opponent's ships.

Bombs are harder to use against a good player with ship than move after the maneuver. Boosts and barrel rolls can offer get a enemy out of the blast radius of a bomb. One way to increase the effectiveness of a bomb is flying through obstacles. A lot of times this will prevent an opponent from doing the boost or barrel roll to avoid the bomb or mine. At the very least it should get him off your '6'.

Avoid putting all you bombs on one ship. It ether becomes target #1 or is avoided until the end game. I've used Y-Wings effectively wit a mixture of bombs and mines to spread out the threat.

Don't be afraid to take some damage from a bomb to block an opponent's ace to keep him from boosting or barrel rolling out of the blast zone. Y-Wings are pretty stout and Empire aces usually aren't. A crit on a shielded Y is a good trade for a crit on an unshieded ace. The Scurgg with Sol Sixxa is another good bomb carrier.

Finally, I know there will be disagreement on the next statement. Sometimes the effectiveness of a bomb comes from the threat of using it rather from its actual use. If the fact of carrying a device causes your opponent to change his play style, you can count that as a minor win. It just might throw off his game enough to rattle him.

22 hours ago, Stoneface said:

Finally, I know there will be disagreement on the next statement. Sometimes the effectiveness of a bomb comes from the threat of using it rather from its actual use. If the fact of carrying a device causes your opponent to change his play style, you can count that as a minor win. It just might throw off his game enough to rattle him.

Honestly I think this here is the bigger power to bombs. The threat of if or when they could appear is far more meaningful than actually dropping it because many players will end up playing around avoiding the blast radius, helping you lock down their positioning.

On 4/5/2020 at 12:25 AM, Cpt ObVus said:

So one of the few card types my newbie group hasn’t really delved into is Devices. Rather, they’ve hit the table exactly twice, in the same game, both from the same TIE Bomber (Deathfire). The opponent managed to mess me up pretty good with an Electro-Proton Bomb that Deathfire dropped as he died, but mostly because the range on those things is bananas... but at their cost, they ought to have a good blast radius. The Proton Bombs he was trying to drop in my way were never remotely a factor; I found it extremely easy for my A-, B-, X-, and Y-Wings to just avoid them.

”Launching” Devices like Prox Mines and Conner Nets seems good, given that (As I understand it) if you can place them directly under an enemy ship, they detonate immediately, but the only way I can see to easily do that is to use a Resistance Bomber with a Trajectory Simulator. Is there another way to launch devices, with any ship from any faction? Some upgrade I haven’t yet discovered, or a ship ability I overlooked? I know TIE/sa Bombers have “Nimble Bomber,” and that seems... sort of helpful. I dunno. Help me out! How do you effectively use Devices? Swarm lists with tons of the same device types? One deluxe bomb-dropper? Is there a faction that is well-suited to Device use? Or are they cool upgrades with interesting but largely ineffective gameplay?

Lots of questions in this one!

@ToiletPaper Fiend and @Stoneface already said it, but you can't launch mines, typically. There is one exception; I'll get to that in a minute.

(1) Is there another way to launch devices, with any ship from any faction? - Yes . The CIS (Separatists) have the Hyena-class bomber "Bombardment Drone" which can launch any device (within its restrictions). You already identified the Imperial launcher. Other ships tend to have "drop" tricks; i.e. Emon Azameen in the Firespray, Sol Sixxa in the Scurrg Bomber, a bomber crewed with the Skilled Bombardier crew, etc. There are some Resistance Bomber pilots that play around with when and how you can drop devices, although only one changes the final position of the drop. They mostly buck restrictions on dropping or launching exclusively during the Systems phase.

"Devices" are now called "Payloads", in order to incorporate the remotes that are now being released in the game (currently, a device type exclusive to the CIS).

Note that this does not specify a particular device - it can be used with bombs, mines, and remotes.

(2) How do you effectively use Devices? Swarm lists with tons of the same device types? One deluxe bomb-dropper? Is there a faction that is well-suited to Device use? Or are they cool upgrades with interesting but largely ineffective gameplay?

These are all interrelated. However, the primary thing to know about payloads is that they are very useful for board control; perhaps not so much for offensive capabilities. There's an upgrade called Delayed Fuses that is particularly helpful - it adds a fuse token to any bomb or mine you drop or launch if you choose to do so, which delays a bomb's explosion for a turn, or delays a mine from exploding when it is overlapped, allowing you safe passage while keeping the mine intact for future turns. This also makes it more difficult to play around the bombs, because your opponent's final position two turns down to road now also has to be considered, which is much more likely to force a change in flight patterns.

Most factions, overall, have some device users. Scum are particularly suited to tricksy drops. Resistance are particularly suited to messing with how and when a device is dropped. I don't know enough about the other factions to tell you what's useful in them. The CIS (my third faction) have some very useful launching capabilities for devices, but aren't the best at dropping them. That being said, a Separatist list with 6 Proximity Mine-armed Hyenas placed first in a large Organized Play event last year. That was exclusively a board control list, I think.

My preferred lists tend to have a dedicated bomber, rather than a saturation-style approach. I did, at one point, fly a two-ship Mad Bombers list, but haven't for almost a year.

On 4/5/2020 at 1:30 AM, Stoneface said:

To be clear Trajectory Simulator allows you to launch bombs not mines.

It's harder to catch an opponent with a bomb with the changes in 2.0. You have to be a little more creative. The Tie Bomber with the agile bomber and the bombadier card allows you to drop a bomb or mine with the two speed templates. Two straight or banks gives a large area of danger to opponent's ships.

Bombs are harder to use against a good player with ship than move after the maneuver. Boosts and barrel rolls can offer get a enemy out of the blast radius of a bomb. One way to increase the effectiveness of a bomb is flying through obstacles. A lot of times this will prevent an opponent from doing the boost or barrel roll to avoid the bomb or mine. At the very least it should get him off your '6'.

Avoid putting all you bombs on one ship. It ether becomes target #1 or is avoided until the end game. I've used Y-Wings effectively wit a mixture of bombs and mines to spread out the threat.

Don't be afraid to take some damage from a bomb to block an opponent's ace to keep him from boosting or barrel rolling out of the blast zone. Y-Wings are pretty stout and Empire aces usually aren't. A crit on a shielded Y is a good trade for a crit on an unshieded ace. The Scurgg with Sol Sixxa is another good bomb carrier.

Finally, I know there will be disagreement on the next statement. Sometimes the effectiveness of a bomb comes from the threat of using it rather from its actual use. If the fact of carrying a device causes your opponent to change his play style, you can count that as a minor win. It just might throw off his game enough to rattle him.

All good points!

Zuvio can launch devices, although only using a 1.

Keeping with the "more options than the standard 1-straight template device drop during Systems Phase" theme we also have:

I will add, Emon is a TON of fun if you drop Boba Fett and Andrasta on him.

I just played a game that had a very successful bombing turn with my two y-wings, the turn after the joust against a tie swarm. Dropping both at once a couple of inches apart made the proton bombs almost impossible to avoid no matter what maneuvers his ties pulled.

@ScummyRebel said it well with the idea that bombs are threatening. One of my favorite squads uses the imperial Decimator, and I always carry a proton bomb because of the threat it presents, AND, people always forget about it, so it makes a good surprise once a game. In addition I will drop a bomb on an obvious turn when I think they will try to avoid it just to show that i am willing to drop. This makes future turns easier to predict where they will be as they try and avoid the potential bomb.

Bombs are such a useful part of the game that if I have a ship that can take one, I throw on on. Just like every other part of the game, keep practicing!

Good call on Zuvio, @Skitch_ - @Cpt ObVus 's group uses Scum, and I forgot about him.

On an unrelated note, how did you manage to fit so many card images into the post? I can never manage that many.

3 minutes ago, feltipern1 said:

Good call on Zuvio, @Skitch_ - @Cpt ObVus 's group uses Scum, and I forgot about him.

On an unrelated note, how did you manage to fit so many card images into the post? I can never manage that many.

We use all of the factions. Haven’t started collecting the Clone Wars stuff yet, but I’m sure we will.

While we’re on the subject, the Resistance StarFortress... it’s a bit confusing. No Missiles or Torpedoes? And I understand what Paige Tico does, but wouldn’t her ability literally drop two devices directly on top of each other? Is that even legal?

1 minute ago, Cpt ObVus said:

We use all of the factions. Haven’t started collecting the Clone Wars stuff yet, but I’m sure we will.

While we’re on the subject, the Resistance StarFortress... it’s a bit confusing. No Missiles or Torpedoes? And I understand what Paige Tico does, but wouldn’t her ability literally drop two devices directly on top of each other? Is that even legal?

Correct, star fortress has the front primary, the bow tie primary, and devices.

Yes, it’s legal to drop 2 right on top of each other. However, if you read trajectory simulator’s card (a card the fortress can take), you can “when you would drop, you may launch with the 5 forward instead”. So with Tico you can drop one out the rear and then launch one forward

2 minutes ago, ScummyRebel said:

Correct, star fortress has the front primary, the bow tie primary, and devices.

Yes, it’s legal to drop 2 right on top of each other. However, if you read trajectory simulator’s card (a card the fortress can take), you can “when you would drop, you may launch with the 5 forward instead”. So with Tico you can drop one out the rear and then launch one forward

... Or launch two, right? And if I wanted more area coverage, Skilled Bombardier seems to allow me to launch at 4 or drop at 2, as well?

15 minutes ago, Cpt ObVus said:

... Or launch two, right? And if I wanted more area coverage, Skilled Bombardier seems to allow me to launch at 4 or drop at 2, as well?

1. Nope. You have to drop to use her pilot ability (says after you drop not after you drop or launch), so it’s always drop 2 OR drop 1 then launch 1.

2. Correct, if skilled bombardier is equipped you could alter the trajectory of where they drop or launch.

10 minutes ago, ScummyRebel said:

1. Nope. You have to drop to use her pilot ability (says after you drop not after you drop or launch), so it’s always drop 2 OR drop 1 then launch 1.

2. Correct, if skilled bombardier is equipped you could alter the trajectory of where they drop or launch.

Jeez. It really seems like they made these too difficult to use for how easy they seem to be to avoid. Not that I’m done trying!

1 hour ago, feltipern1 said:

On an unrelated note, how did you manage to fit so many card images into the post? I can never manage that many.

You can insert an image from URL. I went to the x-wing 2.0 wiki and clicked on the images to get to the image URL, copied and pasted.

1 hour ago, Cpt ObVus said:

We use all of the factions. Haven’t started collecting the Clone Wars stuff yet, but I’m sure we will.

While we’re on the subject, the Resistance StarFortress... it’s a bit confusing. No Missiles or Torpedoes? And I understand what Paige Tico does, but wouldn’t her ability literally drop two devices directly on top of each other? Is that even legal?

Why is it confusing?

Yep, it's legal. Kind of a waste, but legal. I can envision at least one interesting edge case, though - drop the first, Fuse it, drop the second, let it explode. You've now denied an area of the board to your opponent for two turns. Or set up a double blowout if you use the StarFortress' stationary maneuver and block movement. The StarFortresses are among the most heavily armored ships in the game; they can absorb a fair bit of punishment.

1 hour ago, Cpt ObVus said:

... Or launch two, right? And if I wanted more area coverage, Skilled Bombardier seems to allow me to launch at 4 or drop at 2, as well?

This was clarified by @ScummyRebel .

9 hours ago, ScummyRebel said:

2. Correct, if skilled bombardier is equipped you could alter the trajectory of where they drop or launch.

Which is dope on Sol Sixxa. He can then drop with with 1 straight, 1 bank, 1 hard, 2 straight, 2 bank and 2 hard. Pack Seismics and you have an incredible ace-threatening area.

9 hours ago, feltipern1 said:

Why is it confusing?

Just from a design standpoint... I imagined the StarFortress as the sort of ship that would carry every sort of rocket, missile, torpedo, bomb, and mine you could think of. But I suppose it’s more modeled after something like a B-17 bomber, with turreted point-defense guns, and massive air-to-ground attack power, but zero air-to-air ordnance.

8 hours ago, Cpt ObVus said:

Just from a design standpoint... I imagined the StarFortress as the sort of ship that would carry every sort of rocket, missile, torpedo, bomb, and mine you could think of. But I suppose it’s more modeled after something like a B-17 bomber, with turreted point-defense guns, and massive air-to-ground attack power, but zero air-to-air ordnance.

Apt comparison.

I wanted to add another edge case to the Starfortress with Paige as pilot - put a Skilled Bombardier on it, so you drop one bomb using the 1-straight, then another using the 2-straight. They won't end up on top of each other, but they'll make a nasty wall.

8 hours ago, Cpt ObVus said:

Just from a design standpoint... I imagined the StarFortress as the sort of ship that would carry every sort of rocket, missile, torpedo, bomb, and mine you could think of. But I suppose it’s more modeled after something like a B-17 bomber, with turreted point-defense guns, and massive air-to-ground attack power, but zero air-to-air ordnance.

From a design standpoint the StarFortress is a lovely illustration of the art design and world-building failures that thoroughly plague the sequel trilogy films.

9 hours ago, Cpt ObVus said:

Just from a design standpoint... I imagined the StarFortress as the sort of ship that would carry every sort of rocket, missile, torpedo, bomb, and mine you could think of. But I suppose it’s more modeled after something like a B-17 bomber, with turreted point-defense guns, and massive air-to-ground attack power, but zero air-to-air ordnance.

In 1e I believe it was called the BSF-17.

52 minutes ago, Frimmel said:

From a design standpoint the StarFortress is a lovely illustration of the art design and world-building failures that thoroughly plague the sequel trilogy films.

A little harsh. I think of it as a craft pushed into a roll it was never designed for.

No need to derail, @Frimmel .

Concerning devices I’ve been doing some experiments with Nym - Boba (crew) - Seismics and some other stuff on him (Ion cannon turret, Hull Upgrade, etc.).

Deploying Nym on the middle of the board and dropping the seismic it’s quite easy to cover 2-3 obstacles to make a large lasting threat (good against low HP ships). And Nym can easily fly to safety + alot cheaper and easier than Trajectory Sim + Title.

29 minutes ago, feltipern1 said:

No need to derail, @Frimmel .

2 hours ago, Frimmel said:

From a design standpoint the StarFortress is a lovely illustration of the art design and world-building failures that thoroughly plague the sequel trilogy films.

I was talking about game design, and I don’t want to derail this either, but the sequels were great! They had some problems, sure (as did every Star Wars film, with the exception of ESB), but I genuinely enjoyed all three of them.